Father asks court to stop daughters assisted suicide
NO country or state that allows Assisted Suicide allows anyone with mental illness to access it - they are automatically EXCLUDED. So your fear unwarranted and not applicable.
Her choice, not his.
Which seems appropriate here. This sort of thing is explicitly not what this sort of process is for. This is for things like chronic pain due to terminal illness, not lifelong neurological condition.
The whole process exists because some people aren't in a situation where they can accurately judge their own interests.
NO country or state that allows Assisted Suicide allows anyone with mental illness to access it - they are automatically EXCLUDED. So your fear unwarranted and not applicable.
Yes, and the process is still ongoing, if the court doesn't step in to be like, no, this doesn't qualify, then it might be time to have some concern.
I don't agree with that at all. This is a life that wouldn't be ending any time soon if not for the treatment. If we were talking about pulling the plug on somebody that requested it or who was terminally ill, you'd have a point, but from what I understood of it that's not the case.
If this is indeed currently legal, that is an excellent reason for there to be a court case to determine whether this really is in keeping with the law as written or if it's an unintended consequence which isn't permitted for other reasons.
I don't agree with that at all. This is a life that wouldn't be ending any time soon if not for the treatment. If we were talking about pulling the plug on somebody that requested it or who was terminally ill, you'd have a point, but from what I understood of it that's not the case.
If this is indeed currently legal, that is an excellent reason for there to be a court case to determine whether this really is in keeping with the law as written or if it's an unintended consequence which isn't permitted for other reasons.
You don't have to agree, Its not your business - She is using the law to exercise her legal rights - you don't get a vote, neither does her father. You can try to get the laws changed if you disagree with them, just like anyone else.
That's how it works, someone who meets the criteria and wants to die as they choose - can do so without coercion or interference. The only people who get to be involved are doctors, and the patient.
funeralxempire
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No, Canada's laws are not intended to limit MAID to those with terminal illness.
Are you disputing the idea that a lifelong neurological condition doesn't cause severe enough quality of life impacts to some portion of sufferers to make them conclude MAID is preferable to dealing with the innate symptoms of said neurological condition?
Given that those symptoms are lifelong and unable to be treated and the level of distress they might represent outside of any external factors (like income, social supports, etc) I feel that they absolutely reach the threshold where this discussion becomes reasonable and where people who wish to deny that right to people who are overall of sound mind really need to examine their own motivations.
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No, Canada's laws are not intended to limit MAID to those with terminal illness.
Are you disputing the idea that a lifelong neurological condition doesn't cause severe enough quality of life impacts to some portion of sufferers to make them conclude MAID is preferable to dealing with the innate symptoms of said neurological condition?
Given that those symptoms are lifelong and unable to be treated and the level of distress they might represent outside of any external factors (like income, social supports, etc) I feel that they absolutely reach the threshold where this discussion becomes reasonable and where people who wish to deny that right to people who are overall of sound mind really need to examine their own motivations.
What I'm saying is that the whole point of assisted suicide is for the terminally ill. The folks that are going to die in the near term anyways. It's fundamentally extremely dangerous to have an exception made for people who are likely to live a more or less normal life span to get assistance in doing so.
I don't personally accept the notion that this sort of lifelong suffering is truly untreatable. These are all things that potentially could be treated, but if folks just take the out, then how exactly are things supposed to progress and where exactly do you draw the line. Suffering is a significant portion of the human condition and if folks weren't involving other people, it would be a much harder call.
funeralxempire
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No, Canada's laws are not intended to limit MAID to those with terminal illness.
Are you disputing the idea that a lifelong neurological condition doesn't cause severe enough quality of life impacts to some portion of sufferers to make them conclude MAID is preferable to dealing with the innate symptoms of said neurological condition?
Given that those symptoms are lifelong and unable to be treated and the level of distress they might represent outside of any external factors (like income, social supports, etc) I feel that they absolutely reach the threshold where this discussion becomes reasonable and where people who wish to deny that right to people who are overall of sound mind really need to examine their own motivations.
What I'm saying is that the whole point of assisted suicide is for the terminally ill. The folks that are going to die in the near term anyways. It's fundamentally extremely dangerous to have an exception made for people who are likely to live a more or less normal life span to get assistance in doing so.
I don't personally accept the notion that this sort of lifelong suffering is truly untreatable. These are all things that potentially could be treated, but if folks just take the out, then how exactly are things supposed to progress and where exactly do you draw the line. Suffering is a significant portion of the human condition and if folks weren't involving other people, it would be a much harder call.
I disagree with your premise, both broadly but in particular for the purposes of this discussion.
MAID isn't only for the terminally ill and has never been intended to be limited to only the terminally ill. If it was they would have limited it to only the terminally ill, rather than those who are dealing with chronic, but not terminal conditions.
The fact that they didn't limit it to terminal illness makes it very clear that it was never intended to be limited to only the terminally ill so just reasserting that it was intended to be limited to cases of terminal illness is either ignorant or dishonest.
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戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
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funeralxempire
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While Justice Colin Feasby acknowledged the "profound grief" that W.V. would suffer with the death of his child, he ruled the loss of M.V.'s autonomy was more important.
"M.V.'s dignity and right to self-determination outweighs the important matters raised by W.V. and the harm that he will suffer in losing M.V.," wrote Feasby in his 34-page written decision issued Monday.
"Though I find that W.V. has raised serious issues, I conclude that M.V.'s autonomy and dignity interests outweigh competing considerations."
Decision stayed pending potential appeal
Feasby's decision sets aside an interim injunction the father was granted the day before M.V.'s assisted death was set to take place in the family's home.
But the judge also issued a 30-day stay of his decision so that W.V. can take the case to the Alberta Court of Appeal, which means the interim injunction will remain in place for the next month.
M.V. lives with her father and was approved for MAID in December.
She did not file any court documents explaining how she came to qualify for MAID.
Lawyer Austin Paladeau said the case boils down to his client's right to medical autonomy and argued W.V.'s love for his daughter "does not give him the right to keep her alive against her wishes."
'She is generally healthy'
But W.V. believes his daughter "is vulnerable and is not competent to make the decision to take her own life," according to Feasby's summary of the father's position.
"He says that she is generally healthy and believes that her physical symptoms, to the extent that she has any, result from undiagnosed psychological conditions."
Her only known diagnoses described in court earlier this month are autism and ADHD.
On March 11, when M.V.'s lawyers asked the judge to set aside the interim injunction, W.V.'s counsel asked for the injunction to continue and for a judicial review to be ordered that would examine how the daughter obtained MAID approval.
'Tie-breaker' doctor
Currently, two doctors or nurse practitioners have to approve a patient for MAID.
Feasby heard that two doctors were initially approached by M.V. One agreed to sign off on approving her for MAID, the other denied the application.
A third "tie-breaker" doctor, as described by lawyers for Alberta Health Services, was then offered to M.V.
Her father took issue with the third doctor who signed off on M.V.'s MAID approval "because he was not independent or objective."
At the March 11 hearing, Sarah Miller, counsel for the father, called the situation "a novel issue for Alberta" because the province operates a system where there is no appeal process and no means of reviewing a person's MAID approval.
'To live or die with dignity'
Miller asked the judge to order a judicial review of M.V.'s MAID approval.
While Feasby found the "court cannot review a MAID applicant's decision-making or the clinical judgment of the doctors and nurse practitioners," he did rule the actions of the MAID navigator — a person who works for AHS and helps co-ordinate a patient's eligibility assessment — can be examined.
Feasby ruled the courts can review whether the AHS MAID navigator followed its own policy.
"There can be no doubt that it is a serious issue," wrote Feasby. "The AHS MAID policy is part of the legal framework governing medical assistance in dying and, as such, is a matter of life and death."
But Feasby said he would not grant an injunction preventing M.V. from accessing her approved MAID pending a judicial review of the assessor's actions.
"The harm to M.V. if an injunction is granted goes to the core of her being," wrote Feasby.
"The choice to live or die with dignity is MV's alone to make."
I'm glad to see the judge chose to respect the woman's rights over the emotional manipulation of her father.
_________________
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While Justice Colin Feasby acknowledged the "profound grief" that W.V. would suffer with the death of his child, he ruled the loss of M.V.'s autonomy was more important.
"M.V.'s dignity and right to self-determination outweighs the important matters raised by W.V. and the harm that he will suffer in losing M.V.," wrote Feasby in his 34-page written decision issued Monday.
"Though I find that W.V. has raised serious issues, I conclude that M.V.'s autonomy and dignity interests outweigh competing considerations."
Decision stayed pending potential appeal
Feasby's decision sets aside an interim injunction the father was granted the day before M.V.'s assisted death was set to take place in the family's home.
But the judge also issued a 30-day stay of his decision so that W.V. can take the case to the Alberta Court of Appeal, which means the interim injunction will remain in place for the next month.
M.V. lives with her father and was approved for MAID in December.
She did not file any court documents explaining how she came to qualify for MAID.
Lawyer Austin Paladeau said the case boils down to his client's right to medical autonomy and argued W.V.'s love for his daughter "does not give him the right to keep her alive against her wishes."
'She is generally healthy'
But W.V. believes his daughter "is vulnerable and is not competent to make the decision to take her own life," according to Feasby's summary of the father's position.
"He says that she is generally healthy and believes that her physical symptoms, to the extent that she has any, result from undiagnosed psychological conditions."
Her only known diagnoses described in court earlier this month are autism and ADHD.
On March 11, when M.V.'s lawyers asked the judge to set aside the interim injunction, W.V.'s counsel asked for the injunction to continue and for a judicial review to be ordered that would examine how the daughter obtained MAID approval.
'Tie-breaker' doctor
Currently, two doctors or nurse practitioners have to approve a patient for MAID.
Feasby heard that two doctors were initially approached by M.V. One agreed to sign off on approving her for MAID, the other denied the application.
A third "tie-breaker" doctor, as described by lawyers for Alberta Health Services, was then offered to M.V.
Her father took issue with the third doctor who signed off on M.V.'s MAID approval "because he was not independent or objective."
At the March 11 hearing, Sarah Miller, counsel for the father, called the situation "a novel issue for Alberta" because the province operates a system where there is no appeal process and no means of reviewing a person's MAID approval.
'To live or die with dignity'
Miller asked the judge to order a judicial review of M.V.'s MAID approval.
While Feasby found the "court cannot review a MAID applicant's decision-making or the clinical judgment of the doctors and nurse practitioners," he did rule the actions of the MAID navigator — a person who works for AHS and helps co-ordinate a patient's eligibility assessment — can be examined.
Feasby ruled the courts can review whether the AHS MAID navigator followed its own policy.
"There can be no doubt that it is a serious issue," wrote Feasby. "The AHS MAID policy is part of the legal framework governing medical assistance in dying and, as such, is a matter of life and death."
But Feasby said he would not grant an injunction preventing M.V. from accessing her approved MAID pending a judicial review of the assessor's actions.
"The harm to M.V. if an injunction is granted goes to the core of her being," wrote Feasby.
"The choice to live or die with dignity is MV's alone to make."
I'm glad to see the judge chose to respect the woman's rights over the emotional manipulation of her father.
Thanks for the update.
I still feel the same way
Legally I do not know more than the judge about Canadian law so that is that.
I have two conflicting opinions. One is “nothing for us without us” translates to the father not having the right to make such an important decision against the wishes of his apparently competent autistic daughter. What conflicts with that is the last thing I want to see is autism to be accepted as a reason that suicide is considered the better option than being autistic.
I don’t know her. I don’t know the father. I don’t know her reasoning. I don’t know the doctors who signed off reasoning, nor the doctor who did not sign off reasoning. I have no right to know this information.
Without this information I will not judge this situation.
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Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
Assisted suicide should be available anyone over the age of 21 who wants it, regardless as to why. No ones pain and suffering is any less or any greater than someone else's. Someone struggling with debilitating depression should have just as much of a right to an assisted suicide as someone who has terminal cancer.
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