The man vs bear meme

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Well put. I don't understand why women should have to justify their answer either way. Explaining it to someone who is interested is one thing, but having to defend one's rationale, thought process, or personal history is another. It's a question for women afaik so it's disheartening that they can't just answer it without being shamed.

I understand that the meme itself makes women look dramatic, and men look judged. That's why I hate the idea of memes or quick illustrations of serious topics.

While I’m undecided on the man/bear question, it doesn’t seem that dramatic to me, but I’m comfortable with bears, and I’ve been badly abused. Sometimes I don’t think people get how traumatic/dramatic rape/sexual abuse/any severe form of abuse is. Seriously. Perhaps that’s what people should be taking from this.

Women should be free to have whatever answer to said question they have without judgment. No one here thinks that all men are abusers. If people find this topic distasteful, maybe they could look for ways to support people who’ve experienced abuse and/or advocate for change. Many women aren’t going to feel safer until things are safer. That is the reality.

These memes aren’t going to go away just because some people don’t like them.

I know.
It's not dramatic to me either, but it's clear that some people take it that way.
Some people seem incredulous that anyone would choose a bear.

I think the purpose of shocking people is OK, because it initiates the topic.
When I quickly googled some memes, they were all meant to make women look dramatic.

I don't know if I should attach examples or not.

When I was a kid I was bullied by both boys & girls. There was a double standard where when a girl hit a boy the boy got told that was because the girl liked him. However when a boy hit a girl the boy got punished even if the girl hit him first. Violence should NOT be tolerated reardless of the genders involved. Focusing on gender is not a productive way to reduce violence. It's causing men to feel judged & hated for being men & causing women to be afraid because they are women. I do not conform to either gender & had times where I felt I was born the wrong one & I might be slightly trans & hate certain physical aspects of being a man. People should be held to the same standards & judged for their personalities instead of worrying about what's between their legs. Both genders need to work together instead of making each other out to be enemies or victims.

^ I agree that bullying and violence is always wrong and shouldn’t be tolerated, but this specific meme is about the issue of violence towards women.

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/scope-problem


From what I’ve seen, there’s a lot that don’t too. If people read articles related to it, they may have a more nuanced understanding. People often go with whatever is more comfortable for them to believe/think though. The fact that women are talking about it is good.

Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 08 May 2024, 5:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

This varies species to species.

Polar bears will try to eat you if they get half an opportunity, then again polar bears didn't conquer the arctic by turning down easy meals. They're also less intimidated by groups of people.

Sloth bears will f**k you up because they're a prey animal with generational trauma and a predator's toolkit. They're notorious for being aggressive towards potential threats. They're the most sensitive to being spooked.

Sun bears are timid and mostly try to avoid confrontations with people.

Black bears vary population to population. Asian black bears have a reputation for aggression in some regions. American black bears don't attack often, but they're often predatory in nature when they do. American black bears are less protective of their cubs than brown bears, so this is less commonly a motive when they attack people.

Brown bears rarely attack people on sight, unless there's cubs around (like you say). They're probably the least sensitive to being spooked, although it's still a bad idea. Apparently the Scandinavian ones are the least prone to aggressive interactions with people.

A giant panda will gladly remind people they're a bear, if required.

Bears that are habituated to people, associate people with food and hungry are a serious threat.

^ I always strive to keep my distance from bears although I have seen black bears when I was out hiking before.

Good thinking. The only bears I consider safe for interacting with can be identified by their flannel wardrobe.

The ones I saw were cartoon, friendly-looking bears having conversations with women.
Some of them were women trying to choose which panic button to push, between men vs. bears.
They were all tropes with very little background information.
I guess I could look more but I get the idea.
I'm glad if there are some which are more illustrative of the theme.

I really doubt most people of any gender will read articles related to memes.
Maybe I'm wrong.
I assume men won't bother, and women will intuitively understand.

I generally interact with no one apart from an occasional salamander.

In my experience, bears aren’t too good at firing weapons from a distance. I have no qualms with distant bears apart from the occasional flasher.

It's weird - when I hear a woman say "men are evil!" or "men suck!" or similar, I don't take it personally and feel a need to defend myself. I ask them what happened, or if someone is bothering them.

And thank you - it seems a point worth reiterating - if some men can't be trusted to not assault women, and the men who wouldn't assault them can't be trusted to do anything about the ones who do commit assault on women, which men are safe to be around?

"Good" men who do nothing about what they themselves recognize as unjust, are still contributing to injustice, even if not actively engaging in it. Nobody is saying all men should take up being batman for a living - just anything more than mumbling about it being none of their business, or shrugging quizzically about what could even be done. Be a witness, record evidence, draw attention to their actions, call the police, fetch an authority, take your pick.

And let's be very clear about something - "defending" someone by accompanying them, when nothing bad happens, and telling yourself that simply existing was some type of "protection", is very much NOT the same thing as having to actively stand against an actual threat. Walking with a man in the hopes that nobody attacks you is like carrying a toy gun on your belt. Seeing it might stop a few people, but if it doesn't deter someone and they still attack, it's useless in a real conflict. It merely gives the protected a false sense of security, and the protector a false sense of importance. You're not a protector, you're a deterrent - a scarecrow.

And it still falls to EVERYONE to keep society moving in the proper direction. Not just men. Not just women. Everyone. When people start trying to opt-out or mumble and mutter about what they can or can't do, and who they would or wouldn't do it for, things start to fall apart. Cos the instant someone decides that the problems of others are none of their business, others also get to choose that your problems are none of their business, and you get to be left to fend for yourself, too. This is the point of the idea that everyone needs to pull together, as part of participating in a society, and enjoying the benefits and securities offered by said society.

Imagine being more upset about a meme about women being assaulted, than about the actual fact that women are being assaulted...

That’s probably because you know those labels don’t apply to you. You always demonstrate care and compassion towards others.

Are you single?
Even just being kind, caring and striving to understand is a great start. All too often people are dismissive, victim-blame, and fail to actually listen which makes it really difficult for victims to come forward and pursue justice, healing, or advocacy. Maybe individuals who actually listen and care would be able to help in a greater capacity too.
Society needs to change. Most victims of sexual assault are assaulted by people they already know - acquaintances and partners. It’s not usually about a dangerous neighborhood although it certainly happens everywhere. Given how common IPV is, it can make it difficult to trust anyone. If you can’t trust friends and family and aren’t safe in your own home, it’s hard feeling safe anywhere. That’s probably something more people need to be aware of since it’s so prevalent and may be reflected in some of the responses to the question posed in the meme.

Apart from that, yeah, it’s not that impressive walking with someone here and there unless we are willing to take action if the need should arise. More often, we could provide various forms of assistance to someone who needs to leave an abusive relationship. Once again, active listening and compassion is a good start.
Good point!
This makes me wonder if there’s just a lack of understanding about this topic. It seems to be really difficult for some to relate to if they haven’t experienced it themselves even though there is a huge amount of information out there. The lasting trauma that assault often causes isn’t exactly unknown. It’s very strange.

Some people actually seem to enjoy the prospect of male-bashing, so there is that to consider.

I agree that people should be judged by their personalities instead of what sex they happen to be.

I'm reminded of something I once heard said. Words to the effect of "men who aren't evil know that the phrase 'men are evil' doesn't apply to them".

I am single. Ain't found the right lady yet. Being a heathen liberal in the deep south doesn't help.

I tend to take some things for granted, and neglect to mention, cos I assume they'd be basic humane logic. Things like taking women seriously, actually listening to what they say, not dismissing what they say out-of-hand, not telling them how they should feel or think about a given situation, etc. Acknowledgment... it's hard to address a problem that some people don't even fully believe really is a problem, isn't it?

As you've pointed out, a lot of sexual assault occurs from known individuals rather than random strangers - which then also adds the complication of not just your-word-vs-their-word, but your-word vs the word of someone you thought you could trust - as well as being faced with the consequence of having to take action against someone who was close to you, rather than some total stranger. Or worse, someone you live with. Have family with. Have mutual assets, mutual friends, anything that might come into contention as a result - which can also be used as leverage by an abuser.

In that sense, asking women why they don't "just fight back" is sorta like the ignorance behind asking women why they don't "just leave" abusive relationships. It's usually not as simple as "just leave".

It occurs to me - so many guys, especially on here, see sex as such a wonderful and desirable thing, something they desperately want, the idea of sex being forced upon them in their mind would be like being forced to have a delicious meal with your favorite foods. "Oh no! A girl is forcing me to do something I desperately want to do! How horrible! " And they think it will be kinky and erotic, and maybe just make them feel a little awkward afterwards, but no biggie.

I suspect they're not seeing it from the perspective of being invasive, undesirable, scary, painful, or dangerous.

People who haven't experienced assault don't always grasp the magnitude of the effect it can have on people. Even some people who have experienced assault assume that what happened to them was the worst it gets, when in fact their experience was on the shallow end of that pool. Being slapped, and being beaten unconscious, are both assault / battery - but they are also very much not the same thing.

Some experiences are sufficiently askew from the norm, they really can't be understood simply by explanation. That's why police officers who are qualified to use OC spray or tazers, are themselves sprayed / tazed as part of their training. So they fully understand what they are doing to people when they deploy these measures.

Of course, at the end of the day, it's not as important that people can relate to trauma, so long as they understand that traumatic experiences exist, and are willing to accept, rather than argue with, feedback given by those who have experienced trauma.

I guess it wouldn't be a discussion about the equitable treatment of women without someone playing the "some people just want to hate on men for being men" card...

Seems to me they don't dislike ALL men, just the ones with personalities that cause them to assault women - or personalities that make them catastrophically tone-deaf...

I'm a man. I don't get randomly hated on by women. Funny that.

I usually don't read articles in general due to focusing issues instead of me simply not caring. However I think people in general tend to not care enough to be bothered. A meme is not effectively relaying it's inteded message if it requires the reading of an article or already having a full understanding due to invididual experience.

It’s become a discussion on various social media platforms including this one, so it IS raising awareness. Not everyone is willing to listen or care, but that’s an overall problem that’s not dependent on a single meme.