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Gromit
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07 Sep 2007, 12:47 pm

Ragtime wrote:
My theologian friend thinks the antichrist will be of Roman/Italian descent, and quite possibly a pope.


Could your theologian friend possibly be Ian Paisley?

Ragtime wrote:
How far a leap would it really be for a future pope to say to the world during a televised mass -- say, the one that the whole world watches every Christmas, "You know what, folks? Basically, I am God."


If the Catholics I have known are representative, it would be a big enough leap that I would expect at least 95% to leave the church if a claim like that was made in earnest and officially confirmed.

Ragtime wrote:
It wouldn't be that major of a shock to those who are used to reverencing him so far above all other men.


You base that claim on a sample of how many Catholics whose opinion you asked?

Ragtime wrote:
The "whore of Babylon" Revelation speaks of is the Roman Catholic Church.
The correlations:
7 hills (Vatican city sits on seven hills, and so does the whore in Rev 17:9).


Revelations was written sometime between 65 and 90. The first church on what became Vatican City in 1929 was built in 326. Are you saying that Revelations prophesied the geographical extent of Vatican City, established in 1929? And are you sure that it's Vatican City which sits on 7 hills, rather than Rome as a whole?

Ever since Revelations was accepted as canonical, people have interpreted it as applying to their own times. A prophesy so elastic and vague to fit events over nearly 2000 years is useless. For the practical purpose of identifying a specific person or event, it's not a prophesy at all.


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richardbenson
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07 Sep 2007, 1:03 pm

Gromit wrote:
Ever since Revelations was accepted as canonical, people have interpreted it as applying to their own times. A prophesy so elastic and vague to fit events over nearly 2000 years is useless. For the practical purpose of identifying a specific person or event, it's not a prophesy at all.
i agree, it reminds me of that book the bible code, people who claim it really predicts world events its almost always after the fact and never before


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iamnotaparakeet
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07 Sep 2007, 1:10 pm

People misinterpreting it to fit their own time doesn't disqualify the text. I don't think we're quite at the end times yet, but as time progresses we do near it just as we near our own deaths.



rideforever
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07 Sep 2007, 1:22 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
This is 666 spelled out in Hebrew:
שׁשּׁה שׁשּׁים מאיה שׁשׁ
Revelation 13:17-18 KJV
[17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
[18] Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Out of Greek and Hebrew, Hebrew letters have numerical value. The antichrist will most likely have a Hebrew name which letters add to 666. Not to say he's Jewish, although they are still looking for the Messiah and if the antichrist were Jewish it would help his acceptance within that circle. If genetic testing proved the guy to be in the line of David, that would be even worse.


V: There are ways of telling whether he is the Antichrist.
P1: Are there? Well then tell us!
V: Tell me... what do you do with the Antichrist?
P3: Burn'him! Burn him up! (burn burn burn)
V: What do you burn apart from the Antichrist?
P1: More of them !

P3: .... Wood!
V: So, why does the Antichrist burn?

P2: Cuz he's made of... wood?
V: Gooood.

V: So, how do we tell if he is made of wood?
P1: Build a bridge out of him !
V: Ahh, but can you not also make bridges out of stone?
P1: Oh yeah...
V: Does wood sink in water?
P1: No
P3: No. It floats!
P1: Let's throw him into the bog! (yeah yeah ya!)
V: What also floats in water?
P1: Bread
P3: Apples
P2: Very small rocks


King: A Duck!

V: Exactly! So, logically...
P1(thinking): If he weighs the same as a duck... he's made of wood!
V: And therefore,

P3: The antichrist !
V: We shall use my largest scales.



iamnotaparakeet
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07 Sep 2007, 1:26 pm

rideforever wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
This is 666 spelled out in Hebrew:
שׁשּׁה שׁשּׁים מאיה שׁשׁ
Revelation 13:17-18 KJV
[17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
[18] Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Out of Greek and Hebrew, Hebrew letters have numerical value. The antichrist will most likely have a Hebrew name which letters add to 666. Not to say he's Jewish, although they are still looking for the Messiah and if the antichrist were Jewish it would help his acceptance within that circle. If genetic testing proved the guy to be in the line of David, that would be even worse.


V: There are ways of telling whether he is the Antichrist.
P1: Are there? Well then tell us!
V: Tell me... what do you do with the Antichrist?
P3: Burn'him! Burn him up! (burn burn burn)
V: What do you burn apart from the Antichrist?
P1: More of them !

P3: .... Wood!
V: So, why does the Antichrist burn?

P2: Cuz he's made of... wood?
V: Gooood.

V: So, how do we tell if he is made of wood?
P1: Build a bridge out of him !
V: Ahh, but can you not also make bridges out of stone?
P1: Oh yeah...
V: Does wood sink in water?
P1: No
P3: No. It floats!
P1: Let's throw him into the bog! (yeah yeah ya!)
V: What also floats in water?
P1: Bread
P3: Apples
P2: Very small rocks


King: A Duck!

V: Exactly! So, logically...
P1(thinking): If he weighs the same as a duck... he's made of wood!
V: And therefore,

P3: The antichrist !
V: We shall use my largest scales.


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GoatOnFire
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08 Sep 2007, 4:35 pm

The antichrist will be a Filipino woman.


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Postperson
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08 Sep 2007, 4:41 pm

I think he's an Australian who adopted US citizenship.



iamnotaparakeet
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08 Sep 2007, 6:17 pm

This proves that I'm a parakeet. 8O



greenblue
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08 Sep 2007, 6:27 pm

Gromit wrote:
Ever since Revelations was accepted as canonical, people have interpreted it as applying to their own times. A prophesy so elastic and vague to fit events over nearly 2000 years is useless. For the practical purpose of identifying a specific person or event, it's not a prophesy at all.

Yes, it has been exactly like that throughout history and today is not much different.

richardbenson wrote:
i agree, it reminds me of that book the bible code, people who claim it really predicts world events its almost always after the fact and never before

QFT


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username88
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08 Sep 2007, 6:29 pm

Wasnt there a mistake in a translation and they found out the real number is (correct me if Im wrong) 616 or something? Whats with that? Plus they got the symbolism of the number wrong anyway :roll:



greenblue
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08 Sep 2007, 6:44 pm

username88 wrote:
Wasnt there a mistake in a translation and they found out the real number is (correct me if Im wrong) 616 or something? Whats with that? Plus they got the symbolism of the number wrong anyway :roll:

well, it seems that the greek writings have the "666" number but an older fragment of the revelation was found and it has the number 616, as it seem to be the oldest writing some scholars believe that this may be the original number.


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Nambo
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09 Sep 2007, 4:53 pm

The anti-christ is widely tipped to come from the House of Rothschild.

They certainly have the money and influence to get as many people as possible to belive it.

The Rothschilds where resposible for the Star of David being adapted as the badge of modern Israel, it really has nothing to do with David.
Some will tell you the 666 can be worked out from this star, (though you can probably get 666 from many things).

Rothschild was in communication with Charles Taze Russell who started off what was to become known as the Jehovahs Witnesses.

Russell had worked out from the Pyramid of Gaza and Bible scripture that Christs Kingdom arrived in 1914.
On hearing this Rothchild might well have used the biblical prophesy of the coming of the Messaih and used it for his own purposes of a coming Jewish Messaih hence the outbreak of World War 1 precisely when Russell had for 25 years said it would.
The outcome of the first World War for Rothchilds Zionist New World Order was the start of the reclaimation of Palestine for the Jews, and the establishment of the vehicle of the new World Order, the League of Nations.



Elemental
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09 Sep 2007, 5:03 pm

greenblue wrote:
TheMachine1 wrote:
Nero was Roman.

Yes, very likely the writings were refering to, either to him personally or the roman empire itself.


It's also been interpreted to refer to Napoleon, Hitler and any number of Popes. A leader is unpopular and you want to get Christians pissed at him? He's the Antichrist!

A good rule of thumb is that any person suspected of being the Antichrist is automatically not the Antichrist. :)

richardbenson wrote:
i thought you werent supose to worry about the end times. besides doesnt the church get raptured outta here before any of that hellish stuff happens


The Rapture as a concept does not appear in Catholicism, Protestantism or most other major Christian sects. It's largely an invention of noisy fringe sects that unfortunately gets taken for actual doctrine.

This list of articles dissects the Rapture myths: http://carl-olson.com/rapture_articles.html Here's the short version:

First, the "left-behind" theology is not the "Christian" or the "biblical" view of the end times, despite what LaHaye says, or what the media sometimes echoes. Premillennial dispensationalism and the belief in a Rapture event separate from the Second Coming is rejected, either explicitly or implicitly, by the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox churches, and nearly every major Protestant denomination. Dispensationalism, with its particular views about the nature of the Church and the role of Jews in end-times events, was created in the 1830s by former Anglican priest John Nelson Darby (1800-1882) and later systematized in the United States by C. I. Scofield (1843-1921) and Lewis Sperry Chafer (1871-1952).



monty
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10 Sep 2007, 3:06 pm

"For whenever two or more of you gather together in my name, my words will be interpreted in (n+1)^^e ways."



snake321
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11 Sep 2007, 11:38 am

Elemental wrote:
greenblue wrote:
TheMachine1 wrote:

A good rule of thumb is that any person suspected of being the Antichrist is automatically not the Antichrist. :)
[/i]


Well I'm not so sure Nastradamus was christian, but he stated something interesting about that, that there would be 3 "antichrists", the first was Napolean, the second was Hitler (and he predicted him in such detail even down to the swastika, but he referred to him as Hister). He said the 3rd antichrist would rise around the turn on the mellinium (ie 2000 generation, right now).