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What is your opinion on property?
Property is a necessity for society and liberty! 27%  27%  [ 3 ]
Property is a good thing but a social construct to be manipulated at will 36%  36%  [ 4 ]
Property is simply the path our society chose to go but not good or bad 27%  27%  [ 3 ]
Property is harmful to our society 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Property is theft, it is an intolerable evil! 9%  9%  [ 1 ]
I don't care about property. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 11

Awesomelyglorious
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05 Sep 2007, 8:24 pm

Another random question by AG. It is a useless waste of time that is somewhat important to questions of economics and society. What do you think about property? Is it a necessary evil? An unnecessary one? The destruction of humanity? One of the highest rights that any man can possess? Why is property so important or so harmful? What would you change about society's current property structure? This critique can include the IP structure.



TheMachine1
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05 Sep 2007, 8:28 pm

Not sure which poll option I select. But if government can tax you 1 cent they can tax you 100% so individual property right is closer to being a privilege than a right.



Awesomelyglorious
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05 Sep 2007, 8:34 pm

TheMachine1 wrote:
Not sure which poll option I select. But if government can tax you 1 cent they can tax you 100% so individual property right is closer to being a privilege than a right.

Well, one could argue that. I really think that your argument goes back to the premises supporting the just state. A minarchic state for example would have to tax on some level, but most minarchists would put so many controls into how this state is defined in order to prevent such a taxation level. Technically, everything we have is a privilege though by that standard if one thinks on it. Select the coolest one in your mind, I apologize if my selection is poor.



Cyanide
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05 Sep 2007, 8:41 pm

We should all have the right to have some property, but it depends on what you mean by "property" since it's such a vague term. Slaves can be property....a house can be property....animals etc.



TheMachine1
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05 Sep 2007, 8:46 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
TheMachine1 wrote:
Not sure which poll option I select. But if government can tax you 1 cent they can tax you 100% so individual property right is closer to being a privilege than a right.

Well, one could argue that. I really think that your argument goes back to the premises supporting the just state. A minarchic state for example would have to tax on some level, but most minarchists would put so many controls into how this state is defined in order to prevent such a taxation level. Technically, everything we have is a privilege though by that standard if one thinks on it. Select the coolest one in your mind, I apologize if my selection is poor.


Capitalism is superior to socialism for progress. But some parts of human psychology make pure capitalism impossible. So maybe
that means there is a real number that suggest what percent of a persons productive capacity should belong to them. Which is 50% + or - minus X. Which reflects the need for real human competitiveness incentives vs individuals not being responsible for themselves and others.



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05 Sep 2007, 9:34 pm

If you look at the general history of civilization (well... I mean mostly Western civilization, but things have become so globalized, it's hard to make that kind of a distinction these days), it's only until the last few hundred years that most people started really caring about property.

I tend to see just about everything we "own" as really being on loan to us for a certain ammount of time, the longest being until we die. After all, when we're dead, do we really own anything? So from that perspective, there aren't any physical things that we can really have no matter what. Now, I don't believe it would be okay for someone to just randomly break into a house and steal things, regardless of their purpose... but such things do happen and the best response seems to be just to shrug, replace the things that are replaceable and need replacing (if you can), and move on. I mean... no one can break into your mind and take your entire self, and that seems to be the important thing to consider.

With respect to government, though, I think that the option of taxation or no taxation should be left up to the people. Or maybe there should be a system where people pay certain taxes for certain services and if they don't want to use the service or don't support its existence, they can just not pay the tax. But that, of course, would never work in the real world and would probably do nothing but cause bureaucratic nightmares...



calandale
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06 Sep 2007, 4:58 am

I see the tendency of wealth to accumulate
as an evil, but don't see a way around it.
Even if the wealth is non-material, 'tis
going to happen. One can not assure
equality.



Macbeth
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06 Sep 2007, 9:07 am

calandale wrote:
I see the tendency of wealth to accumulate
as an evil, but don't see a way around it.
Even if the wealth is non-material, 'tis
going to happen. One can not assure
equality.


Some people work damn hard in that accumulation though. Seems unfair that it could be just removed from them and given away arbitrarily in the name of such a vague concept as "Equality".

As for government taxation.. yes, some taxation is neccesary, for obvious reasons, but there comes a point when taxation starts to take the piss. Example: The current UK inheritance tax. Basically people will work their lives through, paying taxes FROM what they earn, (Council tax etc) and also paying tax ON what they earn, (Income Tax) whilst also paying tax ON what they buy. (The esoteric VAT or Value Added Tax, or Vague Additions To the Total.) After all that, if they own too much when they are in their twilight years, their offspring will be liable for Inheritance Tax, which is nearly 50%. So taxed a third or fourth time on what they have already been taxed for. Thus, many "children" will be hit not only with the death of a family member, but may actually end up in serious debt because of paying tax on what they inherit. This is inherently unfair on everyone involved.

Footnote: Income tax was first levied in the UK by William Pitt in 1798 to pay for weapons and equipment for the Napoleonic war. In the United States, income tax was levied for the first time during the Civil War. Unless I miss my guess those wars are OVER, and I'll wager good money that both sets of voters were told it was a "temporary" measure.

Summary: I like stuff. Its my stuff. I'm keeping it. I want more stuff. Theres never enough stuff.


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Ragtime
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06 Sep 2007, 10:10 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
What is your opinion on property?


It's all mine. 8)


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TheMachine1
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06 Sep 2007, 10:26 am

Ragtime wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
What is your opinion on property?


It's all mine. 8)


Are you a pimp? :lol:



Macbeth
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06 Sep 2007, 10:38 am

TheMachine1 wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
What is your opinion on property?


It's all mine. 8)


Are you a pimp? :lol:


With that avatar, I think hes a machine from the future, sent back to take control of all humanities property. *nods in a sage-like manner*


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TheMachine1
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06 Sep 2007, 10:46 am

Macbeth wrote:
TheMachine1 wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
What is your opinion on property?


It's all mine. 8)


Are you a pimp? :lol:


With that avatar, I think hes a machine from the future, sent back to take control of all humanities property. *nods in a sage-like manner*


Pimpbot then.

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