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cyberdora
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03 Dec 2025, 5:00 pm

It never ceases to amaze me how much despots can happily apply rigid and draconian laws on their people that somehow don't apply to their extended family or their sycophants. Yet their people love and drool over them?

Saudi, Brunei and Malaysian royal families come to mind. Sultan of Brunei enforces strict prohibitions on alcohol yet maintains a massive collection of liquors from around the world in his palace. Not forgetting the old red Chinese communist leaders or North Koreans forcing people to live on the bare minimum and 24/7 anti-western indoctrination happily sending their children to exclusive private schools in Europe and America.

But religious despots are worse. their people zealously follow a code strictly enforced by religious police, yet somehow doesn't apply to their own families. Iran has strict rules about restricting freedoms on women that has resulted in incarceration and even murder of young women for flouting strictly enforced dress codes. So imagine my surprise when a video showing the wedding of the daughter of Ali Shamkhani, a top advisor to Iran's Supreme Leader and cleric, has sparked widespread reactions on social media.
https://theconversation.com/leaked-wedd ... lic-264942

why was Iran's notorious religious police not called to arrest Ali Shakmani?

One rule for me, another for thee



Amalric
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03 Dec 2025, 10:23 pm

Their personal pride is an element of it. Tyrants see themselves as being above the "hoi-polloi", and may believe that certain moral laws are not about condemning immoral actions in themselves as much as they are about preventing any slope leading down to that action. As an enlightened, perhaps even benevolent despot, they are wise and sophisticated and noble enough to not need those restrictions.

Iran and Brunei, especially Brunei, are good example because Islam's teetotalism is one such moral law. Muslims don't actually believe that drinking alcohol is evil, in itself. They believe that drunkenness is evil and even that is condemned especially (though not *solely*) so that no one is drunk when they perform one of their 5 daily prayers, in morning, noon, afternoon, sunset, and evening respectively. Because these prayers are evenly spaced out it's impossible to get drunk after one prayer manage to sober up fully by the rest. So, Muhammad, Islam's founder, outlawed it. But even that outlawing came in steps, as he at first only outlawed drunkenness during prayer, then drunkenness in general, then alcohol in total.

An enlightened, prideful man, especially one who sees these restrictions as unnecessary for him to maintain good conduct, and *especially* if he sees himself as being divinely-appointed ruler (rather than just a shepherd for his people, as St. King Louis IX did). I think this is especially egregious for these rulers when they've been more Westernised, as Western culture prizes the spirit of the law over the law itself. Islamic culture, following Islamic legalism, does not. So Islam condemns drinking even a tiny sip of alcohol as being a transgression, even though the spirit of its teetotalism ("We don't want drunkards during prayer") is still preserved if you try out only a sip. A more Westernised ruler may apply that "spirit of the law" idea, especially if he can do so for his moral advantage, over Islamic legalism, but he obviously can't override his religion's laws completely, and he sees them as still being necessary to apply for the good of the belligerent masses.

Of course these rulers may just be simple malevolent tyrants but I think that's too black-and-white a view of them and their beliefs. Some of them are like that, of course, but I think most of them, both right now and in history, genuinely did not see themselves as hypocritical or evil. They thought themselves decent people doing decent things, it's only that the people under them could never understand.



MartineRomy
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04 Dec 2025, 12:45 am

Amalric wrote:
They thought themselves decent people doing decent things

And they are wrong and not decent people.



cyberdora
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04 Dec 2025, 2:16 am

Amalric wrote:
Tyrants see themselves as being above the "hoi-polloi", and may believe that certain moral laws are not about condemning immoral actions in themselves as much as they are about preventing any slope leading down to that action.


therein lies a problem with Iran's clerics. they are willing to execute young Iranian woman for showing hair. Yet their own daughters have their hair, legs and chest on full display for cameras. I am also aware they spend time in overseas resorts drinking and sleeping around like youtube influencers. If I was a parent of one of these executed women I would be seeking vengeance on these charlatan clerics.



Amalric
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04 Dec 2025, 6:29 am

MartineRomy wrote:
Amalric wrote:
They thought themselves decent people doing decent things

And they are wrong and not decent people.


I agree. I'm trying to explain what they think of themselves and how they justify their actions to their consciences. I still condemn them as tyrants, I'm not trying to justify them.



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04 Dec 2025, 10:02 am

And yet their citizens appear powerless to correct such situations . Brings to mind the old adage about
"Power corrupts, Absolute power corrupts absolutely" . Not Even regarding our own USA , recently Trump and Biden.
Have seen minor local Functionaries , Court Prosecuetors,Sheriffs , even Entire City Counsels ,and lowly Medical clerks ,behave in such manners.
On some personal basis with myself and others . And each time ,I have encountered such people , it was very egregious circumstances . Causing Public suffering . Only 2x was I able to have a larger governmental body. Intervene in such activities with any significant results. And each time it was at great personal cost to me. It is not the way it should be. But am stuck with the having to cope. With the sad excuse . Of the above adage about power ..


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cyberdora
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04 Dec 2025, 6:32 pm

Jakki wrote:
And yet their citizens appear powerless to correct such situations . Brings to mind the old adage about
"Power corrupts, Absolute power corrupts absolutely" . Not Even regarding our own USA , recently Trump and Biden.
Have seen minor local Functionaries , Court Prosecuetors, Sheriffs , even Entire City Counsels ,and lowly Medical clerks ,behave in such manners.]


In the US you can at least vote out trump. Iranians aren't that lucky. And that brings us to the issue of accountability. tyrants don't magically appear in a wisp of smoke like Jaafar in Aladdin. they usually start as populist leaders. the common people who bestow power to individuals who clearly have red flags yet they are permitted to develop into monsters. the list is too long. Honourable mentions include German people in the 1930s, Cambodians in the 1970s, Chinese people in the 60s and 70s and Rwandan Hutus in the 1990s who drank the Kool aide and partook in brainwashing giving up their personal freedoms in order to give evil tyrants power. Yes, I blame the masses of people who were willing accomplices.

Back in 1979 Iranians were fed up with the corruption and wanton extravagance of the Shah of Iran. So much so, they were willing to give up the benefits of western development and quality of life as they cheered extremist Shia clerics who stomped on the American flag. Now they cry over human rights and loss of freedoms. I mean what did they expect? they gladly gave the keys of power to the Imams.

And then there's good O'l trump. People gasp and are shocked in 2025 he would send in troops into cities like an old timey dictator. I mean really? millions of people cheered trump and MAGAs on Jan 6 2020 as he danced over MAGA thugs storming the capitol building in Washington. You would think common sense would prevail, he's a known criminal and abused power. But no. 75 million Americans voted for him again.

Citizens in America at least did have the power to correct a bad situation they created in 2016. But in 2024 they chose to have more of the same. Let's not kid ourselves, people are ultimately accountable for the leaders they choose. whether it be war lords, tin pot dictators or trump, it's a reflection from a mirror and they are looking at themselves.



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06 Dec 2025, 8:55 am

cyberdora wrote:
And then there's good O'l trump. People gasp and are shocked in 2025 he would send in troops into cities like an old timey dictator. I mean really? millions of people cheered trump and MAGAs on Jan 6 2020 as he danced over MAGA thugs storming the capitol building in Washington. You would think common sense would prevail, he's a known criminal and abused power. But no. 75 million Americans voted for him again.

Citizens in America at least did have the power to correct a bad situation they created in 2016. But in 2024 they chose to have more of the same. Let's not kid ourselves, people are ultimately accountable for the leaders they choose. whether it be war lords, tin pot dictators or trump, it's a reflection from a mirror and they are looking at themselves.

The cities where troops have gotten sent are not the same places where a majority of people voted for Trump. The latter are mostly rural and suburban areas.

Rural people are getting screwed too, though in a different way. Reduced health care spending means some hospitals are getting closed, and said hospitals are mostly rural. Farmers with labor-intensive crops (e.g. fruit) are losing their workers due to aggressive immigration enforcement.


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cyberdora
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06 Dec 2025, 4:07 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Farmers with labor-intensive crops (e.g. fruit) are losing their workers due to aggressive immigration enforcement.


And yet they went with antiimmigration?. trump himself used cheap immigrant labour to get rich. Now he wants them deported.



cyberdora
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06 Dec 2025, 4:15 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
The cities where troops have gotten sent are not the same places where a majority of people voted for Trump. The latter are mostly rural and suburban areas.


we had a conservative Australian prime minister who 2 decades ago sent in armed troops to aboriginal settlements in Australia's so called "northern territories" over allegations of child abuse. Children were forcibly removed and put into foster care experiencing trauma of family violence. alcohol, drugs and a government armed invasion force separating children from their parents.