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elvenmage
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08 Nov 2007, 4:16 pm

Can you give me some proof of it's existence?

This isn't meant as a trick question or anything, it's just that i'd like to know why people actually beleive in a god.

Thanks. 8)



iamnotaparakeet
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08 Nov 2007, 4:21 pm

Everything has to have a beginning; complexity and order in nature; innate sense of right and wrong.



iamnotaparakeet
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08 Nov 2007, 4:37 pm

If you would like more on the teleological argument you may check the links on my website:

http://www.freewebs.com/iamnotaparakeet/links.htm



skafather84
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08 Nov 2007, 4:51 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Everything has to have a beginning



so who created god, then? your model falls apart from the first point.



iamnotaparakeet
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08 Nov 2007, 4:55 pm

skafather84 wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Everything has to have a beginning



so who created god, then? your model falls apart from the first point.


Maybe He's too big for your mind to grasp?



greenblue
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08 Nov 2007, 5:02 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Everything has to have a beginning



so who created god, then? your model falls apart from the first point.


Maybe He's too big for your mind to grasp?

8O How can you possibly know? :P


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iamnotaparakeet
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08 Nov 2007, 5:18 pm

I can only know in part. Specifically that part which He has revealed of Himself to us both in nature (although corrupted by sin still proclaims Him) and His providentially kept inspired Word (which is a more accurate witness.) Nature itself doesn't lead to Christ, (I have one friend who read Darwin's Black Box (which I have too) and she realized that these highly complex molecular machines don't occur by chance, but she didn't accept God for who He is but choose (more or less arbitrarily) Norse gods.) Only the accounts and prophecy that God Himself gave will lead to correct specifics about Him. But that which He has revealed about Himself, although in partial knowledge only of the infinite, is, by His very nature, Truth.



greenblue
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08 Nov 2007, 5:35 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
she realized that these highly complex molecular machines don't occur by chance.

As I can't deny nor confirm this, it is a particular human capability about wondering why, how, who, where, etc. When we perceive our environment according to our capability of perception of such things, humans have always wondered about how everything works and where everything comes from. However, that claim is not enough if we lack of solid evidence, and just by "looking at God's creation you know he exists" is not enough.

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but she didn't accept God for who He is but choose (more or less arbitrarily) Norse gods.) Only the accounts and prophecy that God Himself gave will lead to correct specifics about Him. But that which He has revealed about Himself, although in partial knowledge only of the infinite, is, by His very nature, Truth.

I have to agree with a former member here that no one can know the Absolute Truth about everything.

God has reveled himself, but how? we have only explanations regarding religious dogmas, "sacred" texts, which constitutes other people's view, philosophies, ideals and perceptions of things regarding the time and knowledge available then, apart from setting rules to control societies.


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Last edited by greenblue on 08 Nov 2007, 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

iamnotaparakeet
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08 Nov 2007, 5:42 pm

By the Jewish Canon for the Tanakh, the words of the One who fulfilled the Messianic prophecies in the Tanakh, the words of His disciples, and the the words of those His disciples accepted.



richardbenson
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08 Nov 2007, 5:57 pm

people who believe in god just prove that not doing any thinking for yourself is all you need to believe in god

once you start actually thinking, its impossible to believe. because basically god doesnt make any sence :P



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08 Nov 2007, 6:06 pm

elvenmage wrote:
Can you give me some proof of it's existence?


Nope. There is no general indisputable proof, or very few people would ask this question. Some people have faith, some have intelligent design arguments and some have direct experience. All of this can be disagreed with very easily. You can only believe in God by having an open mind. That's open, not sucker. :D


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iamnotaparakeet
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08 Nov 2007, 6:19 pm

MysteryFan3 wrote:
elvenmage wrote:
Can you give me some proof of it's existence?


There is no general indisputable proof


If it is the last thing you will have it will be too late.



greenblue
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08 Nov 2007, 6:26 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
MysteryFan3 wrote:
elvenmage wrote:
Can you give me some proof of it's existence?


There is no general indisputable proof


If it is the last thing you will have it will be too late.

In other words, people who are not convinced, will go to hell?
No one can know the absolute truth about this.


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spdjeanne
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08 Nov 2007, 6:35 pm

I doubt most people who believe in God truly believe because of a proof that has been presented to them. I say this because I've heard many people describe why they believe in God and most often it has to do with a transcendental experience of a relationship with the divine. The only time proof starts cluttering up their language is when they are being defensive and or trying to convert someone. I acknowledge and accept that my reason for believing in God does not fit the common standards for proof. I think your question is, therefore, loaded and cannot really be answered by people who actually believe in God.



greenblue
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08 Nov 2007, 7:01 pm

spdjeanne wrote:
I doubt most people who believe in God truly believe because of a proof that has been presented to them. I say this because I've heard many people describe why they believe in God and most often it has to do with a transcendental experience of a relationship with the divine. The only time proof starts cluttering up their language is when they are being defensive and or trying to convert someone. I acknowledge and accept that my reason for believing in God does not fit the common standards for proof. I think your question is, therefore, loaded and cannot really be answered by people who actually believe in God.

It seems sometimes that the belief system of a lot of religious people may be based on emotion and desires mostly, like the feeling of having an empty hole to fill, something like that, which it seems more like a psychological thing than actually a physical thing to actually have as a proof to themselves, that is, the dogmas and the descriptions of how deitie(s) are suppose to be.


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