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monty
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24 Nov 2007, 1:42 pm

lau wrote:
Yipe. More fun at http://www.heartmath.org/, where you can buy into HRV stories. Give a person with little understanding a new tool (Fourier analysis) and they can draw amazing "conclusions" from blindingly obvious facts - then sell you their snake oil.


A red herring. I've never heard of heartmath and have no opinion on it. There are 10,000+ articles in various biological and medical journals that mention HRV. The fact that someone is selling what you call snake oil is irrelevant to the role of HRV in health.

lau wrote:
Pointing at the fact that chanting has physiological effects, as well as causing a noise, is hardly surprising. Linking some arguably concomitant heath benefits to chanting, and then that to religion, with the implication that "religion is good for you" is just bad logic, particularly as Yoga wasn't a religion, last I looked.


I never implied that "religion is good for you" - although elements of it may be. My point was that practices that come with metaphysical baggage may be useful in spite of the baggage, and can still work even when the nonsense is ignored.

When it comes to yoga and religion, you obviously didn't look very hard. Yoga developed from and is attached to Hinduism and Vedantism, although many places in the US and Europe teach it without any of the religion. Which is fine by me - the practices I am interested in don't need religious faith. But the mantra in the study clearly had a connection to a religion, of which you seem to be proudly ignorant.

lau wrote:
PS. When I made my "patronizing" comment, it was in direct response to the report's wording of "a unique population of urban, low-income, and multiethnic patients with musculoskeletal (MSK) complaints". I think the term most applicable to their wording is "mealy-mouthed" or maybe even "obfuscatory".


Really? Looking at the public health implications of certain practices in a group of traditionally underserved patients is 'mealy-mouthed' ?? Describing the subject population in the research is an attempt to be obfuscatory or to confuse? No wonder this discussion seems to be going no where - you have non-standard definitions of common words.



lau
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24 Nov 2007, 3:42 pm

When I have posted, I have talked loosely about the topic at hand, although it seems to have metamorphosed from the question about tablets that cure autism into a general discussion of evidential science, on the one hand, versus speculative hearsay, on the other. I have not indulged in personal sniping and will not be doing so.

I tend to use my words carefully. I find that the term "yoga", when used in connection with essentially a breathing exercise, is devoid of religious overtones. OED says "Yoga: In Hindu religious philosophy, Union with the Supreme Spirit; a system of ascetic practice, abstract meditation, and mental concentration, used as a method of attaining this; now a widespread cult in many countries outside India." However, it also quotes "1934 A. HUXLEY Let. 22 July (1969) 382 Some modification of this yoga technique may provide what's needed..since it is as..independent of religion..as Freudism - many Indian yogis being in fact atheists."

My words "mealy-mouthed" and "obfuscatory" were also chosen well and accurately. I explicitly applied them to the specific wording in the report, not to anything else about it.


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Barliman
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13 Aug 2011, 5:41 am

nominalist wrote:
The issues surrounding chiropractic are complex. Studies have shown that many people, especially those with neck and back pain, have benefited from adjustments. On the other hand, there was a recent study from Johns Hopkins University which found some association between chiropractic neck adjustments and incidence of stroke.

However, the main problem with chiropractic is, um, chiropractic. Once you take away the various confused, and confusing, notions of subluxations from chiropractic, the field really becomes massage therapy or, in some cases, physical therapy. In fact, there is not just one, by many varied, and even contradictory, theories of subluxations. They range from the anatomical to the auric.

There are some anti-subluxation chiropractors, but their numbers are tiny.


There are a couple of issues here that are worth expanding upon
1) RE evidence_ chiropractic research is by necessity small scale- as it is not bankrolled by the pharmaceutical companies.
2) RE subluxations- the book "Upper Cervical Subluxation Complex" by Kirk Eriksen, contains about 1200 abstracts of various research papers on the subject. There is much more research around- for those prepared to dig on the net.
It is a pretense of the medical profession that there is not valid research on this subject.
3) Unfortunately the chiropractic profession has not been as robust as it should have been in assembling and presenting the evidence they do have- and this really has not helped anyone.
4) We need to be very clear that rates of adverse effects caused by conventional medicine make the small rate of serious adverse effects attributable to chiropractic look very small.
5) As a medical practitioner who actually had his atlas subluxation treated 20 months ago - I am both furious with my profession for endangering my health with its dishonest and intellectually unjustifiable attitude to this problem, and ashamed that I was ever one of the antichiropractic lynch mob with all its pseudoskeptical subterfuge.
6) Over all the chiropractors have not been all that good at actually fixing these subluxations. The issue of people having to go back repeatedly for further adjustments is a problem. I stumbled across a quite new technique called Atlas Profilax that fixed my subluxation at a single sitting.



lau
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13 Aug 2011, 3:38 pm

http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/192790

A four year disinterring of a thread, just to advertise spraining/dislocating (and, of course, damaging) people's joints. That's quite impressive.


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