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24 Nov 2007, 2:17 pm

I once read somewhere that the heterodoxy of one generation is the orthodoxy of the next. It seems to me that every generation thinks that they finally have a handle on the truth, that the last generation and all previous generations were just leading up to their arrival. This Hegelish way of thinking assumes that there will be no up and coming generation to usurp the current one. Why do we all seem to think this way?

Awesomelyglorious
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24 Nov 2007, 3:48 pm

spdjeanne wrote:

How could we live with the continual thought that we are wrong? Everyone assumes they are right in actions and ideas because they can hardly live otherwise.

richardbenson
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24 Nov 2007, 3:51 pm

think about it this way, would governments have control over people if there was no religion? i doubt it. if you can control someones thoughts you own them

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24 Nov 2007, 4:38 pm

richardbenson wrote:

think about it this way, would governments have control over people if there was no religion? i doubt it. if you can control someones thoughts you own them

Sure they would. The Soviet Union and many other nations inspired by it had totalitarian control over people and actively tried to destroy religion. I mean, the best thing you could argue is that they promoted their own religion of state worship or something, but if we stretch the definition that far then everything is religion.

spdjeanne
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24 Nov 2007, 4:59 pm

richardbenson wrote:

think about it this way, would governments have control over people if there was no religion? i doubt it. if you can control someones thoughts you own them

I don't see how this has anything to do with the original post that started this thread. Maybe you are getting confused by the term orthodoxy which in this case does not reference religious ideology but rather what society, as a whole, agrees is undoubtedly true. For example, most people now seem to believe that a meteor hitting the Earth was responsible for the extinction of the dinosaurs. Most people now believe that the Earth revolves around the Sun. People believed different scenarios in the past about these things. What makes us so sure that our understanding of the world today is so true. In essence I guess what I'm asking is why is every generation so arrogant about their understanding of the world when time and time again we have proved ourselves wrong? Shouldn't we have learned a little humility by now?

richardbenson
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24 Nov 2007, 5:15 pm

spdjeanne wrote:

richardbenson wrote:

think about it this way, would governments have control over people if there was no religion? i doubt it. if you can control someones thoughts you own them

I don't see how this has anything to do with the original post that started this thread.

well i do. religion brainwashes people and makes them dumb that way they dont think at all. if there wasnt television and satalites to take pictures of the earth do you think that people would believe the earth was round? i dont.

spdjeanne
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24 Nov 2007, 5:24 pm

richardbenson wrote:

spdjeanne wrote:

richardbenson wrote:

think about it this way, would governments have control over people if there was no religion? i doubt it. if you can control someones thoughts you own them

I don't see how this has anything to do with the original post that started this thread.

If you look at the ocean you can see the curvature of the Earth. You can also see the curvature of the Earth on the salt flats in Nevada. People believed the Earth was round for a long time before there were satellites or TV.

How does religion brainwash people? What religion specifically are you talking about? You seem like you are over simplifying things by using religion as a scapegoat.

richardbenson
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24 Nov 2007, 5:27 pm

spdjeanne wrote:

How does religion brainwash people? What religion specifically are you talking about?

it brainwashes people because that way they dont have to think for themselves, its much easier to have someone else to you what the truth is. i think almost all religions are this way

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24 Nov 2007, 5:33 pm

richardbenson wrote:

spdjeanne wrote:

How does religion brainwash people? What religion specifically are you talking about?

it brainwashes people because that way they dont have to think for themselves, its much easier to have someone else to you what the truth is, i think almost all religions are this way

It is easy to make broad generalizations like this because then you don't have to back up your claim with actual examples. If you really want to be convincing with your opinion, specific examples would do you a world of good.

richardbenson
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24 Nov 2007, 5:36 pm

ok well lets say this hypothetically happend. lets say they found a scroll somewhere in the desert that said jesus never existed, and he was just some made up figure. and lets say that it is 100 % acurate and can be proven scientifically. do you think people will stop beliveing in jesus and all of his acomplishments? i dont think so

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24 Nov 2007, 5:39 pm

richardbenson wrote:

Such a scroll could never exist, hence the hypothetical is useless. Science doesn't actively prove anything. Science provides theories that are generally accepted until disproved in favor of a better theory.

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24 Nov 2007, 5:43 pm

spdjeanne wrote:

You don't even need to compare different generations to see this effect - compare one person who's switched between 2 different things, say a lifestyle or fashion trend - that person will desperately believe that what they like now is the best, end of story, and they were just misinformed/too young/not mature enough/insert other excuse here beforehand, but they're fully mature/grown up/right with their newest choice. And when they find the next change, they'll rationalise in exactly the same ways again.

People like to think their current choices are good, and if it's different from the past, then that was clearly bad.

richardbenson
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24 Nov 2007, 5:49 pm

spdjeanne wrote:

Science doesn't actively prove anything.

science doesnt actively prove anything? well that isnt true

did science actively prove atoms existed? bacteria? viruses?

spdjeanne
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24 Nov 2007, 5:50 pm

vandire wrote:

spdjeanne wrote:

I hadn't thought about it on that scale before. Very interesting. Thanks for the added insights.

I don't think it is impossible for a person to both think that their choices are good and also be humble about them. I mean, we can't just avoid making choices.

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24 Nov 2007, 5:51 pm

richardbenson wrote:

spdjeanne wrote:

Science doesn't actively prove anything.

science doesnt actively prove anything? well that isnt true

did science actively prove atoms existed? bacteria? viruses?

No, it didn't. They just happen to be the current working theory. Very good theories, which have stood a lot of scrutiny, but might still be wrong.

richardbenson
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24 Nov 2007, 5:52 pm

well im gonna make a guess here and say that viruses bacteria and atoms are real. and can be scientifically proven

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