Goth girls, and approaching girls at night clubs is scary...

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Veresae
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18 Dec 2007, 5:31 pm

OK, so some of you know that I really want a gothic girlfriend. (Shallow? Certainly. But it's a bit of an obsession, I'm afraid.)

For me, practically the only way to meet gothic girls is to go to a local gothic/industrial dance club. None are at my school, none are in my neighborhood. This is the only place where I ever see any.

Approaching them, however, is exceedingly difficult for many reasons....

-Because you generally don't know anything about someone's personality, then if you decide to approach someone, then you're approaching them based on asthetics, on how they look, their outfit, their dancing...you approach them because you think they're hot. Now, this means you don't know if who you're talking to is nice or bitchy, but this also means that if the person you approach has a brain then she probably knows that you're approaching her because you think she's hot. This opens up a whole 'nother can of worms because she can look at you and whether or not she wants to bother talking to you (be it with tollerance, ignoring you, or flat-out "go away" rejection), and if, like me, you're not exactly the best at pulling off the "hot goth guy" look then that means she likely won't respond as well. I mean, if a really hot girl started talking to me then I know I'd respond much differently than if a girl who I just wasn't attracted to did. (This whole thing is also just cumbersome for me because I have to be friends with someone to get to know their personality to be all that romantically attracted to them, and I don't like approaching a girl who might have a wretched personality.)

-Where I live, most of the goth girls are not in my age range. Most of them are obese. Most of them have boyfriends or husbands, too. Filter out the goth girls who are b*****s, idiots, or with seriously ugly faces, and what you get is some seriously slim pickings. Most of the attractive goth girls remotely my age are already taken, walking in with their boyfriends, or at the very least are often busy talking to people already.

-Let's say I see an attractive goth girl who seems to be alone. Well, even then approaching her is quite difficult. Even though the music isn't as loud as in many night clubs, it's still so loud that you have to yell to be heard and repeat everything twice. "Hi there!" "WHAT?" "HI THERE!" "HI?" "NICE MOVES!" "ER, THANK YOU!" "WHAT?" "I SAID THANK YOU." "OH. OKAY. WHAT'S YOUR NAME?" "WHAT?" "I SAID...NEVER MIND!" Now picture trying to go through this while also trying to not invade personal space, which is difficult given the swively motions of gothic dancing and the fact that you have to lean your head right into someone's personal space in order to hear or be heard.

-Interrupting someone's dancing feels rude, frankly. Maybe it isn't, but it feels like it is. But if you try doing it in the half-second where one song ends and the other begins then this might juuust be the time when they decide to walk away, meaning you have to find a whole 'nother way to assume the position and get close enough to say something without seeming like you're following them around (which would be creepy), and then some other person might start talking to them (be it a friend or a new acquaintence) and it would, of course, also feel exceedingly rude to interrupt a conversation between two people you don't know, so that's out of the picture as well.

-Gender roles dictate that the man has to be the confident one and approach the woman. I FREAKING HATE THAT.

Not all of this is always an issue but it's always in my head whenever I try to approach anyone, even when I believe in myself and feel confident.

The thing is, I don't want to have to be the approaching confident guy, because that's not me. I'm insecure and girly...I want a girl to approach ME. I don't want to approach a girl who wants to be chased...I want a girl who IS a chaser. I want to be seduced, damn it. Unfortunately those goth girls are often one of the following: unattractive (nothing irks me more than a hideous girl who thinks she's totally hot), tomboyish (I don't like the masculine girl look--I like the feminine look), lesbians (bisexual girls don't count here), sadistic dominatrixes (not being into S&M at all, this doesn't work for me)...and regardless of whether or not they are any of these things, chances are they won't approach me, they'd probably prefer to approach a guy who pulls off the look better. (See, I can't do a better job of pulling off the goth look because I can't stand make up, can't grow my hair long (trust me, it doesn't work--I tried), I can't find any good men's gothic clothing that I can afford...I do all that I can but it's just not enough.)

Arg. So, I don't know what to do. What can I do?



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18 Dec 2007, 5:36 pm

dress in drag. The girls will talk to you if you do then you won't have to initiate conversation.


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18 Dec 2007, 5:53 pm

Veresae wrote:
OK, so some of you know that I really want a gothic girlfriend. (Shallow? Certainly. But it's a bit of an obsession, I'm afraid.)

For me, practically the only way to meet gothic girls is to go to a local gothic/industrial dance club. None are at my school, none are in my neighborhood. This is the only place where I ever see any.

Approaching them, however, is exceedingly difficult for many reasons....

-Because you generally don't know anything about someone's personality, then if you decide to approach someone, then you're approaching them based on asthetics, on how they look, their outfit, their dancing...you approach them because you think they're hot. Now, this means you don't know if who you're talking to is nice or bitchy, but this also means that if the person you approach has a brain then she probably knows that you're approaching her because you think she's hot. This opens up a whole 'nother can of worms because she can look at you and whether or not she wants to bother talking to you (be it with tollerance, ignoring you, or flat-out "go away" rejection), and if, like me, you're not exactly the best at pulling off the "hot goth guy" look then that means she likely won't respond as well. I mean, if a really hot girl started talking to me then I know I'd respond much differently than if a girl who I just wasn't attracted to did. (This whole thing is also just cumbersome for me because I have to be friends with someone to get to know their personality to be all that romantically attracted to them, and I don't like approaching a girl who might have a wretched personality.)

-Where I live, most of the goth girls are not in my age range. Most of them are obese. Most of them have boyfriends or husbands, too. Filter out the goth girls who are b*****s, idiots, or with seriously ugly faces, and what you get is some seriously slim pickings. Most of the attractive goth girls remotely my age are already taken, walking in with their boyfriends, or at the very least are often busy talking to people already.

-Let's say I see an attractive goth girl who seems to be alone. Well, even then approaching her is quite difficult. Even though the music isn't as loud as in many night clubs, it's still so loud that you have to yell to be heard and repeat everything twice. "Hi there!" "WHAT?" "HI THERE!" "HI?" "NICE MOVES!" "ER, THANK YOU!" "WHAT?" "I SAID THANK YOU." "OH. OKAY. WHAT'S YOUR NAME?" "WHAT?" "I SAID...NEVER MIND!" Now picture trying to go through this while also trying to not invade personal space, which is difficult given the swively motions of gothic dancing and the fact that you have to lean your head right into someone's personal space in order to hear or be heard.

-Interrupting someone's dancing feels rude, frankly. Maybe it isn't, but it feels like it is. But if you try doing it in the half-second where one song ends and the other begins then this might juuust be the time when they decide to walk away, meaning you have to find a whole 'nother way to assume the position and get close enough to say something without seeming like you're following them around (which would be creepy), and then some other person might start talking to them (be it a friend or a new acquaintence) and it would, of course, also feel exceedingly rude to interrupt a conversation between two people you don't know, so that's out of the picture as well.

-Gender roles dictate that the man has to be the confident one and approach the woman. I FREAKING HATE THAT.

Not all of this is always an issue but it's always in my head whenever I try to approach anyone, even when I believe in myself and feel confident.

The thing is, I don't want to have to be the approaching confident guy, because that's not me. I'm insecure and girly...I want a girl to approach ME. I don't want to approach a girl who wants to be chased...I want a girl who IS a chaser. I want to be seduced, damn it. Unfortunately those goth girls are often one of the following: unattractive (nothing irks me more than a hideous girl who thinks she's totally hot), tomboyish (I don't like the masculine girl look--I like the feminine look), lesbians (bisexual girls don't count here), sadistic dominatrixes (not being into S&M at all, this doesn't work for me)...and regardless of whether or not they are any of these things, chances are they won't approach me, they'd probably prefer to approach a guy who pulls off the look better. (See, I can't do a better job of pulling off the goth look because I can't stand make up, can't grow my hair long (trust me, it doesn't work--I tried), I can't find any good men's gothic clothing that I can afford...I do all that I can but it's just not enough.)

Arg. So, I don't know what to do. What can I do?




Dress up as Count Dracula.



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18 Dec 2007, 6:06 pm

If you don't want to "interrupt their dancing," then go up and just start dancing with them.



Veresae
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18 Dec 2007, 6:10 pm

Cyanide wrote:
If you don't want to "interrupt their dancing," then go up and just start dancing with them.


I'm not going to force myself on someone, nor do I want to dance with someone I don't know. I mean, what do you do, shove into their space? Plus, sometimes the dance floor is too crowded and you can't even get NEAR someone.

Kitsy wrote:
dress in drag. The girls will talk to you if you do then you won't have to initiate conversation.


I'd rather not. I don't like drag and it doesn't suit my personality at all. Besides, I'd probably get hit on by guys, too.



Aspie1
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18 Dec 2007, 7:37 pm

Cyanide wrote:
If you don't want to "interrupt their dancing," then go up and just start dancing with them.

Here's a related tip. When you approach women, start dancing with them right about when a song starts. The psychology behind this is related to the history of dance; namely, the time when ballroom dancing was popular. Back then, if a woman agreed to dance with someone she didn't particularly like, she could easily say "thank you" and walk away at the end of the song. Vague remnants of this custom carried over into modern club dancing. So if you approach a woman at the beginning of a song, she knows that even if she chooses to dance with you, she can easily walk away at the end of a song. If you approach randomly, there's no "pre-defined time limit", which can make some women uncomfortable.



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18 Dec 2007, 8:17 pm

Well VERESAE, there's really no way to get what you want without compromising something in how you think here.

Dont worry about approaching dancing people in clubs. People go there to meet other people, so they expect for others to approach them, albeit they might be a little surprised. Maybe you could wait until they stop dancing and go for a drink? Offer to buy her one?

Maybe some of the women at the club wont be looking for a goth guy, but if they are, is there any possible way you could do some make up? Not alot, but just a little? You might want to wear it around your house to get used to it. Maybe some eyeliner and lipstick, or dye your short hair black? Black eye shadow applied like eyeliner may be more comfortable than liquid or pencil eyeliner for strters; it's lighter and easier to apply. You may have to give in a little, and I know it's very uncomfortble...but there is just no other way. And you may find you lik e yourself in the style so much that it just becomes natural to you. I would go to the club first as your usual self, see if people there MUST be goth to get a girl, and if so, maybe try only a little something.

Unfortunealtey, if you want the girls to chase you, there's nothing you can do about WHO approaches you. You can be polite and turn them away ("Nah, I'm not looking for a girl/chat/blank right now" or something). Then you can wait for the next girl to show. if they like you, they will come :).

You dont need to be a confident guy, jsut like something, anything, about yourself and what you do, and the girl will like that. I dont know how it works. Call it evolution that people look for people who believe in theirselves. But chances are she has some insecurity, too. And some women, especially goth, dont mind it at all. Just look like you can handle her when she approaches you, that way she knows to go for it and wont think you are uncomfortable with HER (unless you intend in turning her down).

Rejection is all part of the game, especially in a club. It probably happens ten times every second there lol. It's a scary thing, but if you are wanting them to approach you, then you can do the rejecting, and it will hurt you less. Maybe you dont need epensive goth clothes; another style that is closer, cheaper, and more relaxed might even fit you better. I am sure you know more about the style than I do, but maybe their are slight, inexpensive changes you can make? Accessories? Tighter fitting shirts and pants? Black/colred hair?



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18 Dec 2007, 8:38 pm

I simply wouldn't go out of my way for Goth girls; they're typically chock full of issues that I have no intention of dealing with.



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18 Dec 2007, 9:03 pm

Number_11 wrote:
I simply wouldn't go out of my way for Goth girls; they're typically chock full of issues that I have no intention of dealing with.
Everyone has issues in some point of their lives. Only difference is when they come out, the intensity of it all, and if a person is willing to fix them. :P



Veresae
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18 Dec 2007, 9:48 pm

merr wrote:
Well VERESAE, there's really no way to get what you want without compromising something in how you think here.


Easier said than done. Going to a nightclub to meet people at all is a compromise for me. I enjoy going there for the dancing, yes, but going there to MEET people? Not something I'd do if I could help it. But I'm desperate. Part of the reason why I went to the college I did was because Anne Rice went there so I figured the place would be full of goth girls. But no. Practically none.

My attempts to approach girls have been another compromise, given that I don't want to have to be the approacher.

I compromise so god dang much already that I don't know what more compromising I can do. What, settle for someone I'm not attracted to just because she's single? Pretend to be someone manlier than I actually am? I know you're not suggesting these things but you have to understand how difficult all this already is....

merr wrote:
Dont worry about approaching dancing people in clubs. People go there to meet other people, so they expect for others to approach them, albeit they might be a little surprised. Maybe you could wait until they stop dancing and go for a drink? Offer to buy her one?


Some people go to meet up with their friends, though. I get a very cliquey vibe sometimes. A lot of girls just stick in these secluded clusters, just like how they do in high school. >.>

Also, I can't buy anyone drinks. I'm only 19. And the problem isn't when you're already talking to someone, it's actually getting in the position to say anything at all. So if I could regularly get to the part where you have the option of buying someone a drink I wouldn't even have a problem. There's free water, so I do sometimes go get a drink of water hoping that someone else will come by that I can talk to, but often whoever I wish would come doesn't, or goes to talk to someone they're already friends with, or something.

merr wrote:
Maybe some of the women at the club wont be looking for a goth guy, but if they are, is there any possible way you could do some make up?


The club I go to is a goth club, and the girls are goth girls. So yeah, I assume if they're looking for a guy, they'll be looking for a goth guy. I don't think you absolutely have to be completely gothic, no, but it's probably a lot more attractive to be a hot goth guy than someone who's obviously a wannabe who can't pull the look off right.

And no, no make up. Period. I have severe sensory defensiveness and having to wear ANY make up drives me insane because the physical discomfort is just too much to take. I don't care how much better I'll look. I'm not wearing make up.

I do want to eventually dye my hair black but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

merr wrote:
Unfortunealtey, if you want the girls to chase you, there's nothing you can do about WHO approaches you. You can be polite and turn them away ("Nah, I'm not looking for a girl/chat/blank right now" or something). Then you can wait for the next girl to show. if they like you, they will come :).


I know, that's what bothers me so much. NO girls I've ever been attracted in real life to have ever felt the same way. There have definitely been girls who have liked me, but these are always girls I have no interest in. And where I go, girls don't approach me at all. That's part of the whole problem. If there was a line of girls waiting to talk to me that would be something completely different.

merr wrote:
You dont need to be a confident guy, jsut like something, anything, about yourself and what you do, and the girl will like that. I dont know how it works. Call it evolution that people look for people who believe in theirselves. But chances are she has some insecurity, too. And some women, especially goth, dont mind it at all. Just look like you can handle her when she approaches you, that way she knows to go for it and wont think you are uncomfortable with HER (unless you intend in turning her down).


I do like things about myself, and think for myself, and don't let something's popularity (or unpopularity) conflict with how much or how little I like it. But if no girls approach me, how are they supposed to even know any of that? See, it's all about that first step.... >.<

merr wrote:
Rejection is all part of the game, especially in a club. It probably happens ten times every second there lol. It's a scary thing, but if you are wanting them to approach you, then you can do the rejecting, and it will hurt you less. Maybe you dont need epensive goth clothes; another style that is closer, cheaper, and more relaxed might even fit you better. I am sure you know more about the style than I do, but maybe their are slight, inexpensive changes you can make? Accessories? Tighter fitting shirts and pants? Black/colred hair?


I'm going to be getting more gothy clothes that I like for Christmas, but I'm skeptical that they'll help all that much. Like I said, it's just such slim pickings.

EDIT: Jesus Christ, this was post #2007 for me. It's my post of the year. Hahah. >.<



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18 Dec 2007, 11:16 pm

Veresae wrote:
And no, no make up. Period. I have severe sensory defensiveness and having to wear ANY make up drives me insane because the physical discomfort is just too much to take. I don't care how much better I'll look. I'm not wearing make up.

you can do some make up that really you probably wouldn't even notice/feel, but would probably help....seriously. i have found this out by trial and error over many years of practice, and not enjoying wearing lots of makeup myself. it can be done. let me know and i'll try to help you with it if you want.


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19 Dec 2007, 12:13 am

Trust me, there isn't any make up in existence that I wouldn't feel. My skin is EXTREMELY sensitive.



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19 Dec 2007, 12:45 am

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Boy Veresae, I happen to have a LOT of knowledge AND personal experience when it comes to Goth Girlz and the Goth Scene. I Too was obsessed with having a goth gf and with the whole goth scene some 10 years ago. But aprox. 4 years ago I decided to abandon the whole goth scene for good. But first and foremost Veresae I want you to understand: You CANT judge a Book by its Cover! I made the mistake(well I was young and foolish but O well :P)of assuming that people who dress "alternative"-goth/punk/emo/etc. are somehow different from "normal" people on the inside as well as on the outside. I thought they too are social outcasts trying to actively disavow mainstream society for rejecting them......I was WRONG. Its all a facade! More often than not they are quite shallow and extremely pretentious people who are trying to stand out because they wanna feel 'special'. Thats what Goth is about my friend: pretense. Pretense of course is actively pretending to be something that you're not. Approaching people in ANY club, regardless of the type of music being played and how people are dressed, is not a good idea. Many people who go there are simply there to flirt with strangers, others are just there to dance. Strip away the image, style, and pretense and you will find that there isnt anything that different about Goth clubs other than the look and the sound. People go there to do the same things they would do at any other kind of nightclub.
But going there alone and approaching girls is going to make a lot of people percieve that you're a desperate loser tying to pick up hot chicks for a one-night stand. Thats what happend to me: I went alone too many times, women started getting uncomfortable with me and then one night as I walked in the door I was told by the bouncer that I was 86d.
So my advice is that if you go to goth clubs, dont go hitting on girls unless you Really Know how to appear suave and most of all-dont go there alone.



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19 Dec 2007, 12:57 am

D1nk0, I also know first hand that most goths are pretentious, but there are some people who associate themselves with the culture that are really awesome. It's just like how most people in general are horrible but there are some specific people in the world who are cool.

Plus here's the thing: while not every girl I find attractive looks gothic, I always feel like, "Hmm, she'd be hotter if she went gothic" for those who aren't. Anytime I think a girl is REALLY REALLY hot, then she has the gothic look. I wish that appearances didn't matter to me but in a relationship they do. Personality is more important, yes, but I couldn't date someone I didn't find all that attractive.

Also, it's a cultural thing--most of the people who like the same things I like (music, art, etc.) are goths or gothic in some way. When I talk to non-goths about the things I like they have no idea what I'm talking about.

And if I can't go to this club to meet goths, then how can I? Hmm? Look on the internet? Tried. It's not that simple. But that said I don't plan on hitting on girls, per say...just meeting some...get to know some...make some friends...and ideally meet a potential lover. But friendship first, always.



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19 Dec 2007, 1:01 am

Quote:
Plus here's the thing: while not every girl I find attractive looks gothic, I always feel like, "Hmm, she'd be hotter if she went gothic" for those who aren't. Anytime I think a girl is REALLY REALLY hot, then she has the gothic look. I wish that appearances didn't matter to me but in a relationship they do. Personality is more important, yes, but I couldn't date someone I didn't find all that attractive.

Also, it's a cultural thing--most of the people who like the same things I like (music, art, etc.) are goths or gothic in some way. When I talk to non-goths about the things I like they have no idea what I'm talking about


I certainly know how you feel ;). I feel teh same way as well. But what I was getting at is that there's nothing different about goth clubs( in terms of social rules and conduct)than any other kind of nightclub.

Quote:
dress in drag. The girls will talk to you if you do then you won't have to initiate conversation.

Actually, thats not a bad idea at all(especially in a g0th club for crying out loud) :lol: If women think you're gay, they will be a LOT friendlier towards you because they see gay men as being non-threatning; particularly at nightclubs.