Page 1 of 2 [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

aaronrey
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 297

02 Jan 2008, 8:15 pm

im thinking of getting the MCSA and eventually MCSE.

anyone think they're useful? i've been job-hopping for awhile but now i've managed to hold on to this IT job and im thinking of expanding my IT skills.



gbollard
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Oct 2007
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,505
Location: Sydney, Australia

02 Jan 2008, 8:21 pm

Personally, I believe that the only time they're really useful is when you're on the toilet and are out of paper.

Others will undoubtedly disagree.

You don't learn anything from them except how to answer the questions in the exams. They're no substitute for experience and an interest in the field.

Employers however like them because they can tick things off their checklists.

They'll help you get into the interview but then you're on your own.

Also, they expire.



liberty
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Gender: Female
Posts: 82

02 Jan 2008, 8:43 pm

gbollard is right - but they are fast becoming a requirement to even get hired.


No letters after your name = no interview = no new job



And I have told my certified co-workers to take their certs and wipe with them...I have NO certs, but 20 years of experience. They can't find their butts with both hands, a flashlight and a mirror....but they have CERTs!! ! I've also asked the clients which one they wanted to touch their stuff. I win every time.



pakled
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,827

02 Jan 2008, 9:26 pm

another 20-year veteran. Have A+. Do you know what you get when you've been charged hundreds and fail the MS tests? An opportunity to pay hundreds again...

I tried for an Netware cert back in the day. Studied like @#$% for months, went in, failed, studied harder, and did worse the 2nd time...;) Found that, unlike college, where certain facts are more important than others; all facts were equally important...sigh...;) and that was back in the day when it was only $90 a test...sheesh.



gbollard
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Oct 2007
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,505
Location: Sydney, Australia

02 Jan 2008, 10:39 pm

Last time I bothered was with NT 4. Remember all the Novell Questions... and half the people doing the test had never (and would never) encounter a Netware Server.

I certainly finished the Novell phase of my life at 3.12



hyperbolic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,943

04 Jan 2008, 4:44 pm

About.com says the MS certifications are worthless.

A lot of jobs prefer or require A+ certification, however. I am currently studying for A+ certification.

Most Cisco networking jobs also require Cisco certification.



Grimfaire
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 5 Aug 2007
Age: 49
Gender: Male
Posts: 354
Location: Michigan

04 Jan 2008, 5:24 pm

The MCSE has come back into vogue with the changes made a few years back after the drubbing it took with paper MCSEs.

But what cert to get really depends on what you want to do. I'm trying to move myself out of day to day drudgery and into mangement circles so I got the CISSP, basically a requirement for Security Management.

If you let us know what you want to do, we can probably be a bit more specific and give better advice. No certificate is worthless if it's from a valid company; it's just the relative merit that it carries. I'd rather have someone who knows what they are doing than someone with a cert but I'd take someone with the cert and knows what they're doing over both. Also, to get past the HR selection processes, certs are almost mandatory now.


PS: Don't let about.com tell you what certs are good or not. Use places like Dice, Network World or CIO.


_________________
When in trouble or in doubt; run in circles scream and shout.


aaronrey
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 297

05 Jan 2008, 10:38 am

right now im working as a database administrator and i also do some database developing as well although my co-worker is mostly doing that. what im interested in is working on network security and providing support for other divisions



Grimfaire
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 5 Aug 2007
Age: 49
Gender: Male
Posts: 354
Location: Michigan

05 Jan 2008, 11:11 am

Ok, then you have 2 choices here. The MCSE isn't going to be a real boon for either one, but it's never a bad one to get. What you have are to increase your worth as a DB Admin/Developer and/or get the skills so you can move into Network Security.
(I'm assuming here that you want to help the other divisions with security as oppossed to say network architecture and design; desktop support, etc)

So if I were you; I'd try to get my work to help me get the MCDBA (assuming you use SQL) which would help increase your worth as a DBA. Then branch out to the security field. Now it depends on your level of knowledge of this field.

If you're just starting out; the CompTIA Security+ cert is the first one to get. It doesn't hold a lot of weight but it's fairly cheap and gets you a very good background for any others you want to aquire later.

Now you decide if you want to push into the security field full time or seucity+networking. If you want the latter then your MCSE idea is great. Go for that with the +Security add-on which the CompTIA Security+ cert fills in as an elective saving you a bunch of $$. After this or instead; go for actual security useful knowledge; go to www.sans.org and start with the GCSE and work your way up. These are quickly becoming the standard certificate to hold for security personel. You'll have to make your own decisions on what ones you want to know in what order but pretty mcuh all the 500+ level certs are valuable. (firewall, intrusion detection, incident handling, etc) These are what are needed to be a hands on day to day security guy. Of course they have management certs also but here the CISSP is still the way to go.

There are a few other valuable certs in the security field, the foremost being the CEH, Certified Ethical Hacker.
Of course, all these really do is help get you past the HR process. You have to do all the work to make sure you actually know what you're doing which is far more important in the long run. A very big thing with the CISSP which I'd love to see incorporated into more of the Security Certs if a code of ethics. As a security expert, companies grant you access to all of their most important data and they need to know that you're going to protect them as oppossed to selling them out. Remember, people may be able to make decisions based on your trustworthiness but as a company, they have to look at little pieces of paper.


_________________
When in trouble or in doubt; run in circles scream and shout.


gbollard
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Oct 2007
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,505
Location: Sydney, Australia

05 Jan 2008, 4:01 pm

Ditto, the MCSE won't help much in the directions you want to go.

Why do you want to go into those areas;
1. You're very interested in those topics
2. You think there's better career choices/pay there
3. A whim, colleagues, better boss etc..

If you're selecting option no.1, and if it's in the same company, talk to your boss etc, and talk to the boss of the other area, perhaps they'll let you get some experience.

If you're selecting it for either of the other two reasons, you might as well study since you're not going to be interested enough to learn it by yourself.



0hanrahan
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jan 2008
Age: 49
Gender: Male
Posts: 109

23 Jan 2008, 1:06 am

What is the best education route for someone wanting to move into IT?

Self-education with home network and books?
Computer Science Degree
Fast Track Certification School ( like Computertraining.com) ?
Adult Education Courses (cherry pick)


computertraining.com offers 4-5 of the MCP cert preps, including MCSE, and a course in cabling. The program is 6 months at $25k; marketable as entry level at 9-10 weeks. Any word on their reputation? I like this route because it provides instruction and experience and I can start in March if the loan money works out.

Otherwise, it's back to University for me.



gbollard
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Oct 2007
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,505
Location: Sydney, Australia

23 Jan 2008, 1:44 am

Quote:
What is the best education route for someone wanting to move into IT?


Well, if you are a school leaver, I'd recommend the following;

Get a "traineeship" or some other low IT Job on the strength of;

1. Your interest in IT
2. The Low wages they'd need to pay.

and make sure that they know you want to learn IT part time.

Then, the company you work for will probably part-pay your education costs.

Even the armed forces will do this, but as an aspie, I'd recommend a less active location.



0hanrahan
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jan 2008
Age: 49
Gender: Male
Posts: 109

23 Jan 2008, 7:22 am

gbollard wrote:
Quote:
What is the best education route for someone wanting to move into IT?


Well, if you are a school leaver, I'd recommend the following;

Get a "traineeship" or some other low IT Job on the strength of;

1. Your interest in IT
2. The Low wages they'd need to pay.

and make sure that they know you want to learn IT part time.

Then, the company you work for will probably part-pay your education costs.

Even the armed forces will do this, but as an aspie, I'd recommend a less active location.



Not a school leaver. I already have a degree in another field, but considering changing careers to something that would fit my work style, personality and for other reasons.



CityAsylum
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Jan 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,605
Location: New York City

23 Jan 2008, 12:02 pm

gbollard wrote:
Last time I bothered was with NT 4. Remember all the Novell Questions... and half the people doing the test had never (and would never) encounter a Netware Server.

Yeah, there's a reason they called it "NT" :twisted:



CityAsylum
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Jan 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,605
Location: New York City

23 Jan 2008, 12:02 pm

gbollard wrote:
Last time I bothered was with NT 4. Remember all the Novell Questions... and half the people doing the test had never (and would never) encounter a Netware Server.

Yeah, there's a reason they called it "NT" :twisted: