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azalynn
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02 Sep 2005, 10:48 am

Heh...in that situation ("Christmas is getting more religious every year!") I would have taken the person literally as well! I do realize that Aspies aren't the only people who take things literally -- we just seem to do it more often. I do it a LOT more often than everyone I know and it is so strange to encounter all these cases in which people don't say what they really mean, or speak in an imprecise manner.

I had a total Aspie-literal moment recently when someone told me to press the "stop" button on the oven and I just stood there staring at the panel since I didn't see an "off" button. He came over to me, reached over my shoulder, and pressed a button labeled "Off".

In retrospect I can see how maybe "stop" could mean the same as "off" but it just did not occur to me to look for any button other than one with the literal label "stop". This is the sort of literalism I do NOT see NTs engaging in often, and it is the sort that has gotten me in trouble throughout my life because the NTs think I'm being snarky or rude (as in, I'm deliberately "choosing" not to extrapolate what the person really meant, as opposed to what they said). It's part of the "you do X so well, it seems impossible that you could possibly have a hard time with Y!" conundrum.

Anyway, getting back on topic, I have encountered a few people online who can list of numerous autistic traits they had as children but who think they are "normal" or very close to NT now. It is my impression that though they may be able to emulate NT for certain periods of time, they didn't learn these skills the same way NTs do, and they execute the skills differently, drawing on analytical processes rather than subconscious emotional impressions. For instance, if I look at a person I don't get any initial emotional "feel" for them. I have to consciously choose to observe them and listen to them beyond what they are actually saying, and I'm often not very good at it. If I focus too much on trying to evaluate a person's vocal tone, I will miss most of what they are actually saying.



yealc
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02 Sep 2005, 10:55 am

azalynn wrote:
Anyway, getting back on topic, I have encountered a few people online who can list of numerous autistic traits they had as children but who think they are "normal" or very close to NT now. It is my impression that though they may be able to emulate NT for certain periods of time, they didn't learn these skills the same way NTs do, and they execute the skills differently, drawing on analytical processes rather than subconscious emotional impressions.


This is an excellent description of what I have learned to do. However, I know I am processing thing differently and there is a miniscule lag time in my responses while I do process and search my mental book for the right response/reaction.

Y


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NeantHumain
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02 Sep 2005, 11:25 am

hecate wrote:
ve witnessed NTs misunderstand other NTs occasionally so i don't think people are expected to get it right EVERY time. my former boss, who is very socially-orientated, responded incorrectly one day. it was coming up to christmas and a man walked in to the shop and started chatting to my boss. the man said "have you noticed how christmas is becoming more and more about religion every year?" and my boss said "yes! i have noticed that." and the man replied "err, no... i was being ironic." what he meant was that christmas is becoming more about consumerism than christianity.

That shows him, that diabolical NT!



magic
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02 Sep 2005, 11:54 am

NeantHumain wrote:
Ah, so you're the NT! Actually, you're hardly the only one here. I was once naïve; I believed all the members here were somewhere on the autistic spectrum or at the very least had some related developmental disorder or comorbid psychiatric disorder. [...] I have noticed a suspicious amount of NT-like behavior on WrongPlanet.net since they told me this. It even seems that the ratio of NT to ASD is growing every day! I do believe the number of active NT posters here will soon eclipse the number of genuine aspies! I am concerned; I hope my fellow aspies are, too.

OK, I admit, I am an NT (though not an Earthly one, but from another, yet undiscovered, planet, I think). ;)
NeantHumain, your post confuses me somewhat. Do you seriously mean it, or is it your sarcasm again?



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02 Sep 2005, 12:07 pm

azalynn wrote:
It is my impression that though they may be able to emulate NT for certain periods of time, they didn't learn these skills the same way NTs do, and they execute the skills differently, drawing on analytical processes rather than subconscious emotional impressions. For instance, if I look at a person I don't get any initial emotional "feel" for them. I have to consciously choose to observe them and listen to them beyond what they are actually saying, and I'm often not very good at it. If I focus too much on trying to evaluate a person's vocal tone, I will miss most of what they are actually saying.


Check out the TOM past present and future thread for more on this idea.


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02 Sep 2005, 11:32 pm

Did someone say normal? Normal is a myth. Their's average, but not normal. Too much variety for their to be such a thing as normal. Being Chinese is normal, because thier's more people being it than anyone else. Let's go join the party!


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04 Sep 2005, 8:41 am

There is a press to act "normal" and we get rewarded for it. I find that most NTs cannot ignore this press because they have the wiring for social connection that makes it important to them.
I don't have this wiring, so it is not important what people think of me. That means my behavior is governed less by what the norm is and more by what seems practical and logical to me. I think if I were wired differently it would bother me that people shunned me for one reason or another.
I have tried to cultivate this caring about what others think, but I always forget about it because there are so many other things competing for that energy, like making sure I don't smell, and that my clothes aren't stained, brushing my teeth, eating good food, and being able to have minimal participation in social relations. These things are required to keep me employed, and keep me from being a burden on society (or on my mother).
So technically it's not brainwashing; it's kind of functional within the social paradigm in this country. It's more like reinforcement of the things you like that you have in common with NTs.
Hum. /me thinks I am not making sense anymore. Too much of a predilection to play with words.


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04 Sep 2005, 9:55 am

Neuroman wrote:
So technically it's not brainwashing; it's kind of functional within the social paradigm in this country. It's more like reinforcement of the things you like that you have in common with NTs.


I think this makes a lot of sense. Certain behaviors may require much more effort from us, but they are rewarded by society. So this becomes integrated into the person to an extent.



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04 Sep 2005, 1:16 pm

I definitely have AS, but I have much more in common and I am more similar to my peers than people here at WP.



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04 Sep 2005, 1:19 pm

Strangely enough, I tend to "get" and "give" sarcasm pretty well. Hmmm... the Sarcasm Center in my Prefrontal Cortex must be at a normal level of functioning...


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04 Sep 2005, 3:16 pm

hale_bopp wrote:
Some aspies would absolutley HATE hanging out with me. All I want to do is go to massive shopping complexes and shop all day, try on clothes, and have a laugh at other people's expense.

I think I've finally found my soul-mate. :-)


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04 Sep 2005, 3:25 pm

Bec wrote:
I definitely have AS, but I have much more in common and I am more similar to my peers than people here at WP.


Same.

Quote:
Strangely enough, I tend to "get" and "give" sarcasm pretty well. Hmmm... the Sarcasm Center in my Prefrontal Cortex must be at a normal level of functioning...


Most people do. I don't see why that is AS related..



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04 Sep 2005, 4:59 pm

Jetson wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
Some aspies would absolutley HATE hanging out with me. All I want to do is go to massive shopping complexes and shop all day, try on clothes, and have a laugh at other people's expense.

I think I've finally found my soul-mate. :-)


bugger off - she's mine! :evil:

i refer you to:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/modules.php? ... pic&t=5332

so there.

anyway, it's not true, as chocolate is likely to be involved, as well as retail therapy and Schadenfruede ("drooooool" to all three).



Katze
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04 Sep 2005, 6:12 pm

I think........... awwww forget it.....





'We are all Liars....It is not possible to be absolutely authentic or sincere, because there is no point in time or space from which to assert that here, now, I am telling the truth'



Last edited by Katze on 04 Sep 2005, 8:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

mellow
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04 Sep 2005, 8:03 pm

Dear Eamonn,
Yes, I agree it can be hard when you feel like you don't do things well. Even N.T.'s are that way!! Many of my friends will say, you are so hard on yourself. I agree I am but just can't help it!! And I follow your line of thinking that it's hard to say.. be who you are. I think that's hilarious! It's such a cliche! As if it's some defined thing, "Who You Are". It's not in my humble opinion.

Getting back on the topic, as for wanting to be an AS or an N.T. I wouldn't stress on thinking, I must be more of an Aspie or less of an N.T. Just do the things you enjoy and seek them out. Don't worry about whether they fall under NT Or AS categories.
:D
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04 Sep 2005, 8:26 pm

azalynn wrote:
However, I do have the ability to, for instance, figure out sarcasm sometimes -- though I do it contextually rather than by any sense of a person's tone or body language. That is, if someone says, "That's great!" when they drop a glass I would think that was sarcasm because most people don't like it when they drop things and break them.

I first learned about sarcasm from the sarcastic tone of voice on television shows. As a child, my family rarely used sarcasm among each other. I have a pretty dry sense of humor sometimes, and I like to use serious inflection and facial expressions when I'm saying something completely absurd for ironic effect. I expect the other person to understand it by realizing the absurdity of what I'm saying. They'd just have to think I'm either joking or am insane.