Need advice from married aspies or spouses

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Hi,

I could use some input from aspies who are married or those who are married to an aspie.
Since my childhood I had problems, it got a little bit better as an adult.
I was always wondering what was wrong with me, was as a child tested for high functioning autism and didn't fit the profile.
So I was just a problematic, shy introvert child with some strange habits they said.

Now that I finally (I'm 50) found out that it is very, very likely that I have Asperger, I don't like it because it can't be cured. On the other hand; I'm as happy as a clamp because I'm not sick, just a bit different, and all my different demons; social interactions, understanding people, light, sound, itch, anxiety and much more, turn out to be one and it has a name.
Feels much better.

BUT: I thought a long time about it, how to tell this to my husband. I started to talk about " remember such and so person?" , "remember such and so programms on radio and TV?" and then gave him a two page article about Asperger to read and ask him to let me know what he thought about it.
He didn't react well; he said that I was a problem seeker and trew it in the trash. He said that we had no problems at all, unless I created them.

Well, this is not true. We love eachother, but our main problem is that we can't communicate.
Half of the time I am in doubt; does he want this... or maybe that. I have trouble understanding hints and unspoken expectations.
Myself I have trouble to explane myself clear, according to my husband I try to rationalize all the time.
He doesn't seem to have to much trouble to accept my other habits.

So; married or married to Aspies... please give me some input.
And what kind of experience did you have?

Pooh.

Pooh:

I'm a little older than you are, and I've had AS all my life. It's a different kind than you have, and I won't go into that, because I have medication. However, here is my advice.

There's communication, and there's communication. Asperger's is a description of a collection of traits. It's not something to cure. It's not even something to medicate unless it's causing serious life problems for you, and it sounds to me like it's not.

However, I think 1) you should tell him. It's not a big problem or at least it doesn't sound like that's the root of your problems. 2) It sounds like he has the problem.....in that he doesn't want to admit that there is anything wrong. My wife and I took 20 years to thrash this out, but we did, and we're still married.

I don't get subtle hints either. If my wife says something like "the trash needs to go out, but that's okay, I'll do it," and then she gets mad because I didn't jump right in there and do it (this is the kind of things that a marriage is made up of right? But I finally had to say to her. "Look, I don't mind taking the trash out, but you have to say to me "take the trash out, please," or I won't understand it. And she says "but I shouldn't have to say it." And I explain very quietly that she's an NT, and I'm an Aspi, and I don't play those kinds of games very well. My exact words are "I'll do whatever you want me to do, but I'm not a mind reader. You have to tell me. If I don't like something, believe me, I'll complain, but don't come at an issue from the side with me. I don't understand that stuff. I never have. You want or need something, tell me you want or need it. It's your right. And I'm plenty good at saying I don't think something is a good idea, or that you're wrong, and you're pretty good at deciding that when I give you advice, it's my opinion, and it might not fit into your picture. But you have to tell me."

We're both college graduates, we were (and still are) both professionals, and we had a hell of a time making this marriage work, but it seems to be working now....not as smoothly as it could, but smoothly enough so that I can't imagine life without her.

According to my wife, I try to rationalize all the time too. Until one day I said, "do you want me to explain my actions to you, which is your right as my partner, or do you want me to keep quiet and do something you might not approve of, because I never brought it up?" And she thought about it, heaved a very annoyed sigh and said "I prefer you tell me." And I said: "That's what I thought." but that still doesn't stop her from telling me (if I don't quickly tell her a whole story with a lot of background) "how do you expect me to understand what you're saying if you don't give me the context first?" And I say, but we were talking about this last week? And she says, yes, but that was last week. How do I know what you're talking about. So I have just resigned myself to recapping the background, or saying "on another subject, do you remember......" And then we have a normal calm conversation. I don't know where it comes from, well, I do, but it's probably as awful for her to have to live with it as it is for me to put up with. So we're even.

Hope that helps.

Luck.

Btdt

Ok, maybe that's a little extreme, but she said "okay, I want you to take out the trash on trash days." And I said "fine," so now every trash day, the trash is out by the curb, no reminder, no discussion.

My wife too, tells me "you're making problems," when I try to tell her what's worrying me, but she sees life in compartments (I don't understand how people do that.....I wish I could), I see stuff as a whole continuity, and I don't subscribe to the theory that things will work out. You have to plan for them. She sees it as worry, and unreasonable fear. I can't get across to her that if I just let things go along, they'll go in a direction I can't control. And she says (which I agree with, but there's nothing I can do about the way I feel) "Well, you're not going to fix it by sitting there and worrying it over and over. Decide what you want to do, and do it, and having done it, accept the results!

That would be fine, if I believed that she really thought that way. But she and I have been together for going on 20 years, and you learn something about a person in all that time.....and what I have learned about her is that she takes her worry and "stuffs it," (bottles it up). And so she gets very tense. And she's an NT, and we're from totally different backgrounds, so she expects me to react to somethings in a manner that would never enter my mind. It's they way her father and brothers reacted to her. That's a long story, but we make time in the morning (over coffee) to sit down and talk, even though we have nothing to say (we both work at home), and one day I said to her straight out, "I'm not your father or your brothers, or your abusive former boyfriend. If I'm worrying about something, it's honest. I'm not trying to get you to do something. In most cases, I'm seeking your advice. We're married, and the way I solve this effects you. So you get a voice....why else do you think I'm talking to you."

You're husbands reply to you and the articles sounds like it came more from the kind of a person he is, and not as a reaction to you.

Well in your case, I think the best thing would be to get an official diagnosis. That way he can't say you're making it up.

1. Men rationalize everything and problem-solve everything - you can't change this trait, so you have to live with it.

2. Why does it matter whether or not he believes? You are You.

3. Communication: This is where you need to put effort in.
Level the playing field, take away non-verbal cues including tone and expression.

How to do this? Write.

THE PROCEDURE I WAS TAUGHT.
1. Choose a topic
2. Separate for 15 minutes and write your thoughts down according to a set of rules.
3. Return, swap papers and read separately (TWICE)
4. Take turns to discuss the paper/ideas, seek clarification etc..


Now... the set of rules;
- Talk about FEELINGS - eg: When you do this, I feel ......
- No Blame
- No Establishing causality with the other person "You made me do xxxx"
- No Abuse or Picking on eachother - eg: You're fat...
- Describe Feelings and Intensity - Not just sad - how sad ... depression etc...
- Be Positive - How can we move on from here / achieve our aims etc...
- Compromise - there's no perfect solution, the best you can do is achieve a balance

What really matters is your relationship, how you treat each other. TM doubts my AS, and even chides me for posting here. I don't bring it up much anymore. But knowing I'm AS has helped me understand myself better, and make the adjustments I can.

Well I think I have somewhat of an advantage, I don't have a mixed marriage...

Both my wife and I are Aspie's. So are both our sons. Makes it easier I think. Looking back, looking around me at the NT women I know, I don't think I could be successfully married to one. I'd make her miserable. We do have our "issues" that's for sure and #1 has got to be communication. You'd think an Aspie woman would understand, but nooooo.... I think it's just a XX chromosome thing, or maybe cultural. Women seem to think a man should read their mind sometimes. Well, in the past, I admit I've been able to figure out what's on a woman's mind, I mean if she's taking a swing at you it's pretty clear....

First, I'm assuming he's an NT? Or were you thinking he has spectrum traits? That would be two completely different issues. I mean if communication is the only issue you have you're not so bad off. I wish it was the only one I had. If you're trying to communicate to him, and he's not listening or not getting it, try notes. Or a letter, but that's a big jump from "communication problem" to a big letter. Try one issue at a time on a note. Space them out, a day... two maybe apart. If you don't get a response wait a few days and do the same note again. That would probably get a response even if it's only "annoyed". If that doesn't work, sorry, but the best I could suggest would be get the diagnosis then try for couples counseling. If you have a diagnosis in hand and a good counselor, that could help.

Well I just recently learned about AS and it has been a been good for me to finally get an understanding of myself. So the other night I sat down and talked to my wife of 12 years, she took interest and was really great. I think the main thing I wanted her to see that there are some reasons for the way I am. Why do i really want her to learn a little bit about AS? Well it's simple without AS I am just a jerk that hates her family and her friends, someone who loves to hide from the world becoming totally engrossed in some hobby or another and someone who she could feel ( and rightly so ) was rather cold to her and her needs as a person. However if she can see me as someone with AS then she can also see the stress and frustrations I overcome on a daily basis and she can see that I really try hard in spite of my huge number of failings. Most of the problems in our life together has been my fault and the biggest thing I want for her to see is that I love her. If you and your husband really have not had a lot of relationship problems then it might not matter that much if he wants to understand or accept AS, what matters is that you love each other.

Gavin, you are rapidly becoming my favorite poster on WP.

I need to come to this area more because I seem to get alot of responses from kids in the other areas. Gavin has been a big help to me already on one of those other forums.

Pooh, autism is scary. It sounds scary It feels scary. When people get hit with that they get upset.

I'm not officially diagnosed either because I don't feel I need to be. To me you pay a bunch of money to sit and fill a stranger in on your life. You teach them all about you, from your childhood to now, and they compare that with the symptoms of AS and tell you if you have it. Well duh. I'm already an authority on the subject of me and I'm able to learn a great deal about AS and it's a match.

I am so grateful I learned about AS. So grateful I can't even explain it. FINALLY I make sense! There is just to way to measure how important that is to a human! Finding this community (WP) has been amazing - I have said my entire life that I somehow got left on the wrong planet. HA - what an amazing thing to find Wrong Planet.net and it's full of my people!!

When I learned about AS and came here, I bought some books and started reading and just became giddy with excitement. I read passages outloud to my husband and daughter and their jaws dropped. My husband said "Oh my God, is your picture in that book?" because it described me so accurately it was scary.

I embraced AS, I am thrilled to learn about AS, BUT it's been several years now and I am still scared, worried, afraid to share this with people I know in the real world. To explain AS is one thing but when you say it's High Functioning Autism. Oooh. autism I realize that I flinch. I realize that I have a prejudice and a fear and a preconceived notion and I don't want to admit that I'm autistic.

Your husband very well has that same built in thing as I do, even more so, and cannot bear to think of you as being autistic. Also I think most of us in the mid 30+ age range (I'm 47) have seen so many of those Movie of the Week things where the nice young couple gets the devestating news "I'm sorry ma'am, your child is autistic" and the heartbreak that follows. They used to show the lowest functioning even ret*d as well as autistic kids on those shows, and everyone would cry and say "oh no". We have those kinds of scenarios printed in our sub conscious and we refer back to them. Your husband very well does too.

My husband was so relieved - it overcame any prejudices that he had (he's 63) and he just rejoiced with me and kept saying "That makes sense!" We talked for weeks and brought up past things over and over and over "OH that's why!" He apologized for being impatient with me at times but he didn't know. And I didn't know. We have several workarounds now and he is much more patient with me because he Gets It.

My frustration at the moment is that, as Gavin so succinctly pointed out, men like to fix things. As relieved as he is, and he's not even embarrassed about it - he explains AS to everybody now and tells me I can't be ashamed and I need to spread awareness. But he thinks there is a way to fix it. Identifying it was great, now we fix it. (ha - he's a bit of a "curebie", Gavin. Edited to add this comment after reading Gavin's blog)

Only it just frustrates me to no end at times when he's suggesting his fixing things instead of helping me.

Case in point - I have bronchitis at the moment. Sickness for me turns my world upside down in a big way. More than the discomfort of the sickness, my sleep is off, my routine is off, I'm just lost. When I meltdown I can't stop moving. I walk and walk and walk. If it's warm out I go outside, even at 3 am and walk and walk. He stopped me from that citing danger issues, but if it's cold or late, I walk in circles. All around the house, for hours. And stim and obsess and it's just a mess.

We just had a discussion this morning about How He Can Help. He tells me "Just relax" "Take some deep breaths" "Maybe you should meditate" all of those calm, normal kind of things and those just make me get more anxious! And I get more upset and he is frustrated and upset and it's no good.

Just today I understood enough to say to him - I need you to help me get back to my routine. Instead of thinking like an NT and saying "Just calm down" I need you to try and think like an aspie and say "What would you normally be doing at this time? Can I help you get back on track?" THAT is helping!

But what did I just ask him to do? Think like an aspie. Is that even possible? It's nearly impossible for me to think like an NT, so I can't really make him think like an aspie It comes back to Gavin's post - it is all about communication. Even if he can't think like an aspie, he can ask what am I feeling? What do I need? What is the thing that is bothering me? That is very hard for him to do because (as a man and an NT man which is worse) he thinks he already has those answers.

It's such a learning curve. We've been married for 26 years and we're still hammering out these basic things.

I echo what not_amused says too - if you love each other it will work You may have to change your wording. Maybe he is too freaked to say autism or even Asperger's and you can change it to "how I'm wired". You may need to go out of your way to learn and accept and indulge some quirk or habit or hobby or favorite thing of his. Then point out that it's only fair that he do the same in return. I respect you, you respect me. I treat your weird stuff like it's not weird and like it matters and you do the same for me.

Ah darn this got long again. I'm one of those Wordy Aspies when I'm passionate about something.

Wow Earthmom, thanks... I'll try not to get a big head...

I was going to cover a few things in this post, but it's obviously already too long.

Aspergers and High Functioning Autism

Hi
Several people said they "rationalize" a lot, or were accused of it. I wasn't quite sure what was meant in the context - I usually take rationalize to mean the applying of more-or-less fictitious justifications to something actually rooted in either incorrect judgement, or, in purely emotional or irrational desires.
That version of rationalize didn't seem to apply too clearly in the above posts, and I wondered what was meant by the posters?

I actually have a reason for asking as I'm trying to get a better idea of AS behaviours and thinking. I may be AS-wired myself but am also concerned it is a broad strokes thing, so am reluctant to jump to conclusions.

And re - "Aspie spouses" my partner's only response to the possibility was to say that it was neat - autistic people are "fascinating" apparently. Since I'm hard to live with no matter what its called it probably doesn't make much difference other than being able to Google my traits now, which seems to be a fun activity.

gbollard wrote an excellent reply, and I'll second that.

I'm an aspie married to a man on the spectrum. Communication can be nearly impossible at times, but we both know and understand that we have issues that contribute to this. He has a tendency to want to walk away just when I need to let fire the most, which is absolutely infuriating. I typically can't stop, he gets upset, and a minor thing becomes a major argument. Both of us end up with feelings hurt (when smart people fight with words, it isn't pretty) and we always eventually agree that we were both idiots. We've spent time thinking on how to improve communication, and we have to some extent. It isn't easy though, and in any relationship (autism aside) communication is a very common point of conflict.

Bottom line, go with what gbollard write. If we did that here, things would be a lot better when we argue. I know I am going to try and take that advice myself