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fionaban
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22 Sep 2005, 6:53 pm

did u know that Hans Asperger was not German, he was born in vienna therefore is was an austiran just like hittler and any other austiran who ppl h8.


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lowfreq50
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22 Sep 2005, 7:26 pm

Yes I knew that. But I don't see how that relates him to Hitler. I wasn't aware of anyone "h8ing" Hans Asperger.



ljbouchard
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22 Sep 2005, 7:38 pm

Mozart is Austrian too but you do not see anyone comparing him to Hitler.


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NeantHumain
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22 Sep 2005, 7:53 pm

German is the main language of Austria, and Austria has played an integral role in the history of Germany for centuries. Germany wasn't always a united nation-state. It used to be fragmented principalities, bishoprics, duchies, counties, marches, and so forth. Austria was just one of these. Austria is a separate country today because the former Holy Roman emperers, the Habsburgs, held Austria, Hungary, and other lands outside the Empire. Thus, when the rest of Germany was beginning to coalesce under the leadership of Prussia, the Austrian emperor (and king of Hungary) had other business. Of course, the Austro-Hungarian Empire eventually collapsed into Austria, Hungary, Yugoslavia, and Czechoslovakia (roughly); but, by then, Germany was firmly established as its own loose empire, with the king of Prussia becoming the German kaiser.

It is only the result of different allegiances between the feudal princes that the Netherlands, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Luxumbourg, and Austria aren't one German nation-state today. Remember that, in much of northern Germany, the language spoken wasn't so different from the Low Franconian dialect that became Dutch. However, Low German (low as in near the sea) was eventually replaced by High German (Hochdeutsch), which largely became the standardized form of German because the Gutenberg Bible was written in that dialect (before then, Latin was the authoritative language in Germany).

The linguistic situation is similar to what France's was before the twentieth century. The language of southern France, Occitan or the langue d'oc, was widely spoken in the Provençal countryside until centralized school administrators decided that, to better unite France as a nation, everyone should speak like a Parisian. Occitan is actually more closely related to Catalan, Spanish, and Italian than it is to French.



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22 Sep 2005, 8:28 pm

Ah yes... that Hans character. He was an Austrian pediatrician.

It was in 1944 that he first studied and identified that very intellectual but socially very inept pattern amongst a group of the children he cared for. Those kids sounded like little university professors when talking about the things that interested them but in socializing and mingling with other kids, they were outcasts because of their being "different".

The place and time where this happened are noteworthy. Europe was going through its darkest historical chapter and Hitler was still in power.

In Nazi Germany (and all the jurisdictions overtaken by the same) mentally ill people were condemned as wasteful eaters. It does not appear to have been the case with the originally found / studied Aspies who were in the cares of Dr Asperger.

AS does look like a mental illness or challenge in some of its outward appearances. I'm not aware of any studies that have been made on this but it would be interesting to find out how that group of Dr Asperger's patients got past the Nazis' "Final Solution".

If you know any more about Dr Asperger's original patients in that very tumultuous time and place, please share.


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Sean
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22 Sep 2005, 8:54 pm

Papillon wrote:
...I'm not aware of any studies that have been made on this but it would be interesting to find out how that group of Dr Asperger's patients got past the Nazis' "Final Solution".

If you know any more about Dr Asperger's original patients in that very tumultuous time and place, please share.

I've wondered how he was able to keep them out of "ze camps" too. Maybe they were the kids of people with political connections? Also, wasn't his office and most of his documentation destroyed by Allied bombing?



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23 Sep 2005, 12:41 am

Sean wrote:
Papillon wrote:
...I'm not aware of any studies that have been made on this but it would be interesting to find out how that group of Dr Asperger's patients got past the Nazis' "Final Solution".

If you know any more about Dr Asperger's original patients in that very tumultuous time and place, please share.

I've wondered how he was able to keep them out of "ze camps" too. Maybe they were the kids of people with political connections? Also, wasn't his office and most of his documentation destroyed by Allied bombing?


Good question, and good response. I don;t think that H.Asperger had any NSDAP affiliation, or if he did it was marginal. Most Germans/Austrians really weren't thrilled with Hitler either, but they also realised that if they took up any form of active resistance to the Nazi's they too would get a free trainride to a concentration camp of their choice, after the Gestapo had their fun and games with them.

I find the cases of active anti- Nazi resistance in Germany/Austria to be a fascinating subject.



Tom
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23 Sep 2005, 2:00 am

Iv'e got a book about Eugenics in Nazi Germany at home, I remember there was some thing about difference of opinion between doctors on whether to view "autistic savants" as useful members of society or not. I haven't read it for a few years, though.



Sean
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23 Sep 2005, 2:02 am

tom wrote:
Iv'e got a book about Eugenics in Nazi Germany at home, I remember there was some thing about difference of opinion between doctors on whether to view "autistic savants" as useful members of society or not. I haven't read it for a few years, though.

Please post any information you have on where to aquire it! :D



Tom
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23 Sep 2005, 3:29 am

Now I come to remember it, It wasn't just about Eugenics. I think it was called "the third reich".



oatwillie
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23 Sep 2005, 6:18 am

Hmmm....I think streudel is from Austria, too.


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jb814
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23 Sep 2005, 8:03 am

When you think of al the pschologists, psychiatrists, etc that came out of Vienna, do you wonder what the population must be like there? Freud, Kanner, Asperger.....



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23 Sep 2005, 3:03 pm

jb814 wrote:
When you think of al the pschologists, psychiatrists, etc that came out of Vienna, do you wonder what the population must be like there? Freud, Kanner, Asperger.....

Leo Kanner lived in the US somewhere.



jb814
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23 Sep 2005, 5:37 pm

He studied in Vienna in the US?
you're right he wasn't from Vienna. just looked it up, he was from Klekotow not Vienna and Eamonn has filled in his education. Apologies.



Last edited by jb814 on 23 Sep 2005, 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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23 Sep 2005, 5:48 pm

He was born in Austria in 1894 and studied at the university of Berlin from 1913 and emigrated to the US in 1924 after being offered to work there. I hope this clears everything up.

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23 Sep 2005, 8:10 pm

It could be possible that people with Asperger's weren't labled as mentally ill, only for study. If they weren't labled as so, then they had to of kept them out of the camps.


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