If a tree falls in the wilderness,

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iamnotaparakeet
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28 Feb 2008, 12:51 am

If a tree falls in the wilderness and no human ear is there to perceive it, do the sound waves care?

wsmac
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28 Feb 2008, 1:23 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

If a tree falls in the wilderness and no human ear is there to perceive it, do the sound waves care?

No

because Bambi and friends will always be there to hear it!

... that is, unless they are crushed to death beneath the weight of the tree! :twisted:

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Izaak
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28 Feb 2008, 1:34 am

Sound waves lack the necessary attributes required to care.

iamnotaparakeet
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28 Feb 2008, 12:10 pm

Care, not in an emotional sense but rather: will they stop existing if there is no ear or microphone to detect them?

richardbenson
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28 Feb 2008, 1:57 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

If a tree falls in the wilderness and no human ear is there to perceive it, do the sound waves care?

LOL, never gets old

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KRIZDA88
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28 Feb 2008, 5:26 pm

Better question:

If a tree falls in the forest do other trees laugh at it?

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fault. He's a large, out-of-focus monster, and that's extra scary to me.

-If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to see it, do the other trees make fun of it?

SilverProteus
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28 Feb 2008, 6:01 pm

No, they will exist regardless of human affirmation or not.

Am I taking a joke literally?

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Phagocyte
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28 Feb 2008, 6:20 pm

SilverProteus wrote:

No, they will exist regardless of human affirmation or not.

Am I taking a joke literally?

That was my reaction. :lol:

I never understood that "paradox." How arrogant to assume that soundwaves must be detected by human ears in order to exist! With that logic, things that we don't see fail to exist as well.

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SilverProteus
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28 Feb 2008, 6:27 pm

Phagocyte wrote:

SilverProteus wrote:

No, they will exist regardless of human affirmation or not.

Am I taking a joke literally?

That was my reaction. :lol:

I never understood that "paradox." How arrogant to assume that soundwaves must be detected by human ears in order to exist! With that logic, things that we don't see fail to exist as well.

LOL

That paradox applies to religion as well, doesn't it iamnotaparakeet?

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iamnotaparakeet
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28 Feb 2008, 6:48 pm

Yes, in particular to God's characteristic of normatively being invisible. I can't say that I always "feel God's presence" or that He constantly does miracles, but from past experiences I can assure myself of Him. He does reveal Himself, but it is not a constant thing. Being imperceptible at a time doesn't negate something's existence, it could even just mean the lack of looking for or accepting the data.

slowmutant
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28 Feb 2008, 7:49 pm

This Is Not a Pipe ... I Am Not a Parakeet. Clever. Finally I understand that one.

If a tree falls in the forest with no human ear to hear it, the mind which imagines a tree falling perceives what the ear cannot, though the ear is still a peripheral of the mind.

In this case, it is not sound but the concept of sound, since we can all imagine what "a tree falling" would sound like. A ripping, rending crash. An echo, then perhaps a bunch of startled birds taking wing all at once. Even by reading the sentence preceding this one, you the reader have caused a tree to fall in some imaginary forest.

The real question is, "If a man hears a tree falling in the forest, has a tree actually fallen in the forest?"

iamnotaparakeet
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28 Feb 2008, 8:00 pm

slowmutant wrote:

This Is Not a Pipe ... I Am Not a Parakeet. Clever. Finally I understand that one.

Dude, I own cockatiels, AKA crested parakeets, and they treat me as one of their own, but I am not a parakeet and I am a human. That is where my username comes from.

I don't see where you got anything about a pipe from.

SilverProteus
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28 Feb 2008, 8:06 pm

slowmutant wrote:

I understood it as something wholly diferent, as in the logic of "even if we don't see it, does that mean it doesn't exist?".

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greenblue
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28 Feb 2008, 8:06 pm

I believe that is a purely philosophical question which I heard before that was like, if no one is there, does it really sound?

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iamnotaparakeet
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28 Feb 2008, 8:19 pm

"If a tree falls in the wilderness and no one is there to hear it, does it really make a sound?" and then on and on ad nauseam about the definition of sound and perception, yes.

Sand
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29 Feb 2008, 12:21 pm

If you set up a video camera in the forest and it takes a video of a tree falling and you take the film out of the camera and keep but don't look at it, did the tree fall?

This relates to the uncertainty principle where you don't know if the cat is dead or not.

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