I have to say, I think Pastor Manning has a point

Page 2 of 2 [ 20 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

monty
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Sep 2007
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,741

02 Apr 2008, 2:22 pm

Orwell wrote:
This should clear things up a bit:
Barack Obama wrote:
There is no better advocate for African Americans than Barack Obama. Barack knows your story, because it is his story.

He is clearly claiming to be the black candidate, yet his background (regardless of his race) is not at all like that of most African Americans. He spent time overseas, he went to Columbia, he became a lawyer. He simply does not share much of a common background with most African Americans, but he claims that he does. I think that is more what Ragtime and Pastor Manning objected to: he is presenting himself falsely, claiming to represent this demographic when he is in reality a far cry from it indeed.


Really depends on how you define the black experience - if being successful disqualifies one from 'being black' then we will not see a successful black candidate. I think most blacks would say that a central component of the black identity is being treated as black by society - which Obama can claim.



Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

02 Apr 2008, 2:36 pm

monty wrote:
Orwell wrote:
This should clear things up a bit:
Barack Obama wrote:
There is no better advocate for African Americans than Barack Obama. Barack knows your story, because it is his story.

He is clearly claiming to be the black candidate, yet his background (regardless of his race) is not at all like that of most African Americans. He spent time overseas, he went to Columbia, he became a lawyer. He simply does not share much of a common background with most African Americans, but he claims that he does. I think that is more what Ragtime and Pastor Manning objected to: he is presenting himself falsely, claiming to represent this demographic when he is in reality a far cry from it indeed.


Really depends on how you define the black experience - if being successful disqualifies one from 'being black' then we will not see a successful black candidate. I think most blacks would say that a central component of the black identity is being treated as black by society - which Obama can claim.

No. Obama says to blacks, "I know your story, because it is my story." This is false, as I have already explained. He does not share the cultural background (born in Hawaii, lived overseas for several years, attended a Muslim school for a little bit), and had opportunities that most blacks don't. Hell, he had opportunities most people don't, black or white. Columbia is friggin' expensive. How many people on this board, for example, have the money to be able to go to Columbia?


_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


monty
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Sep 2007
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,741

02 Apr 2008, 4:26 pm

Orwell wrote:
No. Obama says to blacks, "I know your story, because it is my story." This is false, as I have already explained. He does not share the cultural background .. and had opportunities that most blacks don't. Hell, he had opportunities most people don't, black or white. Columbia is friggin' expensive. ...


You have said you think it was false, but I don't think it is that convincing. The fact that Columbia has an expensive sticker price is true, yet blacks need not invalidate their blackness if they attend. With tuition discounting and scholarships, 100 students at a university are probably paying 100 different prices.

There has long been a Black Students Association at Columbia (which he was active in), which suggests that Obama was not the lone pigmented student. Obama previously described the fact that during various parts of his life (including college), most of his friends were black and he identified himself as a black man. Society has consistently categorized him as a black man and treated him as such.



Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

02 Apr 2008, 4:37 pm

monty wrote:
Orwell wrote:
No. Obama says to blacks, "I know your story, because it is my story." This is false, as I have already explained. He does not share the cultural background .. and had opportunities that most blacks don't. Hell, he had opportunities most people don't, black or white. Columbia is friggin' expensive. ...


You have said you think it was false, but I don't think it is that convincing. The fact that Columbia has an expensive sticker price is true, yet blacks need not invalidate their blackness if they attend. With tuition discounting and scholarships, 100 students at a university are probably paying 100 different prices.

There has long been a Black Students Association at Columbia (which he was active in), which suggests that Obama was not the lone pigmented student. Obama previously described the fact that during various parts of his life (including college), most of his friends were black and he identified himself as a black man. Society has consistently categorized him as a black man and treated him as such.

Financial aid at Columbia was not very good back when Obama would have been there. It's made improvements, but I can still say that, coming from a reasonably well-off family, I would not have been able to go to Columbia had I applied and been successful. Obama came from a very privileged background, and again, he spent time overseas, grew up around a different culture than do most African Americans, etc.
Frankly, I don't care much about whether Obama is "too black" or "not black enough" or whatever. I dislike his blatant racial pandering at the same time he says he doesn't want the election to be about race. I dislike his policy positions. I distrust him in general. But he is most likely going to be our next President, and he can't really do much worse than our current one, so I guess I can tolerate him.


_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH