Does Hillary Staying in the Race Doom Eventual Dem Nominee?

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Does Hillary Staying in the Race Doom Eventual Dem Nominee?
Yes 30%  30%  [ 7 ]
No 52%  52%  [ 12 ]
I don't know 17%  17%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 23

hyperbolic
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01 Apr 2008, 6:21 pm

Does Hillary Clinton's continuing campaign in the US Democratic presidential primaries mean that the eventual nominee--whether it is Hillary, Obama, or an unknown dark horse candidate decided by convention horse trading--will very likely lose to Republican nominee John McCain in the general election?

Please respond using the poll above. Also, post comments if you like.



BesideYouInTime
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01 Apr 2008, 6:24 pm

It's quite possible. I have no idea why she's staying in the race at this point. She'd have to take every one of the remaining contests by 60/40 to overtake Obama at this point.



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01 Apr 2008, 6:30 pm

A Democratic-Republic at it's finest. Politics, politics, politics...but since that is the obvious name of the game, does it really matter who gets elected? They all follow the same dirty path as the rest; after all they're only human and have their ambitions that need to come to fruition.

Ambition killed Democracy. Welcome to America, land of the free! :roll:


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Spiral153
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01 Apr 2008, 6:47 pm

Oh god, the Obamatrons are STILL at it?
Why should she drop out of the race now, if there are still several states that have yet to vote? For a while now, the consensus has been that Hillary will actually have the lead in the popular vote by the time that the Democratic convention comes around. The only reason why the Obamatrons want her to drop out of the race is so that it can leave the path clear for Obama.

Read this:
http://washingtondemocrat.blogspot.com/2008/03/why-hillary-will-be-nominee.html



skafather84
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01 Apr 2008, 6:51 pm

i haven't even heard any significant mention of mccain in the news. whoever makes it for the dems will already have better name recognition and pretty much be the president.


do anyone even remember mccain is the republican nominee?

looks like he's up to lose again.



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01 Apr 2008, 7:02 pm

Spiral153 wrote:
Oh god, the Obamatrons are STILL at it?
Why should she drop out of the race now, if there are still several states that have yet to vote? For a while now, the consensus has been that Hillary will actually have the lead in the popular vote by the time that the Democratic convention comes around. The only reason why the Obamatrons want her to drop out of the race is so that it can leave the path clear for Obama.


Because it's extremely unlikely for her to win. The fact that several states haven't voted is irrelevant, the primary season doesn't usually drag on this long anyway. If she still stood a real chance at winning I wouldn't hold it against her to stay in the race. The fact is Obama has an almost insurmountable lead in delegates, he's raising more money, and even the unannounced superdelegates have breaking for Obama by a 3:1 margin since March 4th.

If the situation were reversed I'd be saying it's time for Obama to drop out. No one is benefiting from this going to the convention except John McCain.



Spiral153
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01 Apr 2008, 7:31 pm

BesideYouInTime wrote:
Because it's extremely unlikely for her to win. The fact that several states haven't voted is irrelevant, the primary season doesn't usually drag on this long anyway. If she still stood a real chance at winning I wouldn't hold it against her to stay in the race. The fact is Obama has an almost insurmountable lead in delegates, he's raising more money, and even the unannounced superdelegates have breaking for Obama by a 3:1 margin since March 4th.

That's just your opinion.
Hillary currently has more superdelegates than Obama. The supers are going to support the candidate that they feel will stand the best chance of winning the Presidential election in November, and surely if Hillary gains the lead in the popular vote, she'll get the nomination. She already has a good case in her favor, considering the ever-so-important states that she won.



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01 Apr 2008, 7:56 pm

Spiral153 wrote:
Hillary currently has more superdelegates than Obama.


Not for long. Like I said, they're been breaking for Obama 2:1 since Super Tuesday, and 3:1 since the major March contests.

The best analysis available right now says she'd have to win every remaining state by at least a 10% margin to catch up to Obama in pledged delegates, which is very unlikely to say the least. The only way I see that happening is if a major scandal about Obama broke very soon, something considerably worse than pastor-gate.



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01 Apr 2008, 8:24 pm

Not necessarily going to doom the Democrats, but they're taking an awful lot of risks. Seriously, W hands them a free election, and here they are about to throw it away. This division is going to make it difficult for Dems to make a unified effort against McCain, and there will be a lot of bitterness from the Obama camp if he doesn't win- it seems to me that Obama supporters are more passionate about his candidacy than Hillary supporters are of hers. Meaning, Obama would get the support of Hillary primary voters, but Hillary's nomination could drive Obama fans to third parties (or non-participation) en masse, which would kill the Democrat's chance of regaining the White House.


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BesideYouInTime
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02 Apr 2008, 6:33 pm

Obama is already ahead in pledged delegates as well all know. If he gets another +30 supers he'll be ahead in superdelegates as well. That's precisely why I keep saying the math does not favor Hillary.



Spiral153
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02 Apr 2008, 6:55 pm

Pledged delegates are not going to win anybody anything. Neither candidate will manage to get the required 2,024 pledged delegates by the end of the primary election season, so it's pointless to even mention pledged delegates.

The superdelegates are going to select the candidate that THEY themselves feel will stand the best chance of winning the Presidential election in November. The rules allow superdelegates to vote for whomever they want. In a scenario with Obama having a slight pledged delegate lead while Hillary has the popular vote lead, the reality is that the supers will choose Hillary.



BesideYouInTime
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02 Apr 2008, 7:06 pm

Spiral153 wrote:
Pledged delegates are not going to win anybody anything. Neither candidate will manage to get the required 2,024 pledged delegates by the end of the primary election season, so it's pointless to even mention pledged delegates.

The superdelegates are going to select the candidate that THEY themselves feel will stand the best chance of winning the Presidential election in November. The rules allow superdelegates to vote for whomever they want. In a scenario with Obama having a slight pledged delegate lead while Hillary has the popular vote lead, the reality is that the supers will choose Hillary.


We apparently don't live in the same reality. Like I said, Obama is 30 superdelegates away from overtaking her lead in that area, having already surpassed her in pledged delegates. Supers have been announcing support for Obama versus Hillary by a 3:1 margin for a month. She hasn't announced a new superdelegate in two weeks.

You're correct that neither candidate will reach the required number of delegates, but Obama will have taken a majority of them by the time Oregon rolls around. By the time the convention rolls around, Obama will have won a majority of states, a majority of pledged delegates, probably a majority of superdelegates, and possibly the popular vote, as well as polls saying he stands a better chance of winning the general than Hillary does. He's also polling 50/42 above Hillary right now in nationwide polls.

I'm almost to the point where I'm going to ask you to put your money where your mouth is and place a bet with me. :)



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02 Apr 2008, 7:18 pm

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Last edited by BesideYouInTime on 03 Apr 2008, 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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03 Apr 2008, 4:52 am

Present three-way split between Obama, McCain and Hillary

=

Most, if not a plurality, of the losing Democrat's voters getting behind the winner

+

Winner's original supporters being highly energized from the victory of nomination

=

If you are a Republican, now is a good time to start crying.

It's simple arithmetic.

Seriously, people, don't play like Hillary is stupid. She's a very determined woman, but she wouldn't risk her reputation by having a case of sour grapes after a loss. She would undoubtedly be upset, but remember: this woman is quite smart. I don't like her as much as I like Obama, but I respect some of her better qualities. Her drive to succeed is one of them. She merely lacks some of Obama's brilliance at coping with adversity. The Republicans succeeded in destroying the Clintons, therefore the chances of the Democrats making a quick comeback, by using personal ridicule and shameless tabloidesque attacks to character to undermine their credibility. Unfortunately, the Clintons, in spite of some of their finer points, did not have the skills necessary for dealing with such a political offensive. Yes, Hillary was right in calling the attack a "right-wing conspiracy," but calling it out as such only fed into the vigorous punditry that has sustained the Republican Party of America over the past eight years. Conservatives should fear a candidate like Obama because he seems to have an immunity to the mechanism that has been responsible for their decade of success; furthermore, the kind of attacks that the conservatives have been using for the past several years are the kind that, once they have come home to roost, could greatly undermine their credibility with future generations of voters. Even if Hillary Clinton were to get the nomination, though, I would not consider the next few decades a happy time for the conservatives of this country. Finally, the chickens are coming home to roost, and the Republicans will reap what they have sown.



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03 Apr 2008, 4:18 pm

New InsiderAdvantage Poll

Pennsylvania poll shows Clinton campaign on life support
Compiled from InsiderAdvantage and Southern Political Report staff

April 3, 2008 — The latest InsiderAdvantage/Majority Opinion Survey shows Sen. Hillary Clinton clinging to a 2-point lead in the Pennsylvania Democratic Primary. The telephone survey of likely registered Democratic voters, conducted April 2, has been weighted for age, race and gender. The margin of error is plus or minus 3.7%. The results are:

Clinton: 45%
Obama: 43%
Undecided: 12%

InsiderAdvantage/Creators Syndicate’s Matt Towery: “This could be the beginning of the end of the Clinton campaign. The crosstabs show Obama trailing among white voters, but by only a 49%-40% margin. More importantly, Obama has a lead among African-American voters of 56%-29%, with the remainder undecided.

“It is almost impossible to imagine that the African-American vote will not consolidate to the levels we have seen in other states, which would put Obama closer to 70%-plus with blacks. Clinton would need a large, disproportionate turnout of white voters to have a real shot at pulling off a substantial win in the contest.

“Some of our previous polls in other states have shown a pattern of Clinton coming from polling deficits to eek out slim victories over Obama. We’ve seen this happen several times, with Clinton surging in the final week leading up to the vote.

“She will have to pull off a near-miracle to win Pennsylvania, to say nothing of her winning by a substantial margin, which she almost certainly needs to stay alive in the Democratic presidential sweepstakes,” said Towery. Click here for crosstabs.



Spiral153
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03 Apr 2008, 4:47 pm

^ How interesting polls are. Just yesterday, I saw this:


April 2, 2008 - Clinton Leads 50 - 41 Among Pennsylvania Democrats; Quinnipiac University Poll Finds; Whites Give Clinton Lead In Key November Matchups: --- PENNSYLVANIA Democrats: Clinton 50 - Obama 41; FLORIDA: Clinton 44 - McCain 42; McCain 46 - Obama 37; OHIO: Clinton 48 - McCain 39; Obama 43 - McCain 42


New York Sen. Hillary Clinton holds a 50 - 41 percent lead over Illinois Sen. Barack Obama among likely Pennsylvania Democratic primary voters and runs better against Arizona Sen. John McCain, the likely Republican nominee in Pennsylvania, Florida and Ohio, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today.

This compares to a 53 - 41 percent lead in a March 18 survey by the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University. In general election match ups of the three largest and most important swing states in the Electoral College, the survey finds.

* Florida: Clinton 44 percent - McCain 42 percent; McCain beats Obama 46 - 37 percent;
* Ohio: Clinton beats McCain 48 - 39 percent; Obama gets 43 percent to McCain's 42 percent;
* Pennsylvania: Clinton tops McCain 48 - 40 percent; Obama leads McCain 43 - 39 percent.

The primary vote between Obama and Clinton splits sharply along racial lines, with her advantage coming from stronger support in every contest from white voters. For example, Clinton leads 59 - 34 percent among white Pennsylvania likely primary voters, while Obama leads 73 - 11 percent among black Democrats.

"When it comes to November, Sen. Hillary Clinton's strength is a big edge over Sen. Barack Obama among white voters, who have not given a majority of their votes to a Democratic presidential nominee since Lyndon Johnson in 1964," said Peter A. Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute."

More than a third of voters in the three states think Obama's race is an advantage, more than twice the number who think it is a disadvantage. By contrast, roughly a quarter of voters say Clinton's gender is an advantage, and about the same number think it is a disadvantage.

"Former Democratic vice presidential nominee Geraldine Ferraro's assertion that Obama's race has helped his candidacy finds some support among the electorate," said Brown.

"At least for now, Sen. Clinton's argument that she is the better general election candidate in these key battleground states appears to have some validity," said Brown. "In this survey, her strength among white voters is why she runs better against Sen. McCain than does Sen. Obama.

"Roughly one in five Democrats in the three states say they will vote for McCain against Obama, but less than 10 percent say they would vote for McCain over Clinton. Among white Democrats, 23 percent defect to McCain in a matchup with Obama, but only 11 percent defect when Clinton is the Democratic candidate." Pennsylvania

Among Pennsylvania Democrats, Clinton leads 54 - 37 percent with women, and ties Obama 46 - 46 percent with men. Obama leads 51 - 42 percent among voters under 45 years old, while Clinton leads 54 - 37 percent among voters over 45.

By a 48 - 42 percent margin, Pennsylvania registered voters have a favorable opinion of Clinton. Obama gets a 49 - 31 percent favorability and McCain gets 47 - 31 percent.

"Sen. Clinton's imaginary snipers, Rev. Wright, Geraldine Ferraro, these events have taken only a small toll on Sen. Clinton's lead in the Pennsylvania Democratic primary," said Clay F. Richards, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute.

"Her strength is her clear advantage among white voters - blue collar whites, less educated whites, economically hurting whites, that group known famously as Reagan Democrats in the Keystone State. Obama is marshalling all his forces, but despite his eloquent dialogue on the race issue, Pennsylvania Democrats are unmoved. So Far."

The economy is the most important issue in their vote, 46 percent of voters say, followed by 23 percent who list the war in Iraq and 14 percent who cite health care.

Looking at the most important quality in a candidate, 30 percent want a strong leader and 26 percent want someone who is trustworthy.

Being black is an advantage for Obama, 32 percent say, while 15 percent say it's a disadvantage and 47 percent say it makes no difference.

Being a woman is an advantage for Clinton, 26 percent say, with 25 percent saying it's a disadvantage and 45 percent saying it makes no difference.
Florida

In a general election match-up, McCain trails Clinton 44 - 42, too close to call, but handily defeats Obama 46 - 37 percent.

"The difference between Clinton and Obama in Florida is the white vote," said Brown. "She gets 38 percent to 50 percent for McCain, but Obama loses to the Arizona senator 54 - 27 among white voters. If Obama does get the nomination, how he fares with whites will be crucial to his chances."

The economy is the most important issue to Florida voters, 44 percent of voters say, followed by 19 percent who list the war in Iraq and 14 percent who cite health care.

Twenty-nine percent say a strong leader is the most important characteristic they seek in a president, while 27 percent say trustworthiness.

Being black is an advantage for Obama, 35 percent say, while 15 percent say it's a disadvantage and 44 percent say it makes no difference.

Being a woman is an advantage for Clinton, 24 percent say, with 25 percent saying it's a disadvantage and 47 percent saying it makes no difference. Ohio

Clinton's 48 - 39 percent lead over McCain puts her clearly out in front after several months of see-saw, too-close-to-call results.

Men split with 43 percent for McCain and 42 percent for Clinton, but women go with her 53 - 35 percent.

In an Obama-McCain matchup in Ohio, women back Obama 44 - 40 percent as men split, with 44 percent for McCain and 42 percent for Obama.

Despite Clinton's edge in the match-ups, she is not as well thought of overall as her two competitors. Ohio voters split 47 - 45 percent in their opinion of Clinton. By a 45 - 37 percent margin, voters have a favorable opinion of Obama. McCain gets a 42 - 33 percent favorability.

"The favorability data indicate that her lead may be in part due to higher name recognition. This is not a good omen as the other candidates become better known," said Brown.

The economy is the most important issue in their vote, 44 percent of voters say, followed by 22 percent who list the war in Iraq and 17 percent who cite health care.

"The economic concerns of voters make Ohio a tougher challenge for McCain than has traditionally been the case for Republicans, who have never won the White House without carrying Ohio," Brown said. "But Obama's weakness among white men is an indication that he has not yet closed the sale among the lunch bucket brigade."

Ohio voters split in the most important quality they want in a candidate, with 28 percent looking for someone trustworthy and 27 percent looking for a strong leader.

Being black is an advantage for Obama, 36 percent say, while 14 percent say it's a disadvantage and 45 percent say it makes no difference.

Being a woman is an advantage for Clinton, 24 percent say, with 27 percent saying it's a disadvantage and 46 percent saying it makes no difference.

From March 24 - 31, Quinnipiac University surveyed:

* 1,136 Florida voters with a margin of error of +/- 2.9 percent;
* 1,238 Ohio voters with a margin of error of +/- 2.8 percent;
* 3,484 Pennsylvania voters with a margin of error of +/- 1.7 percent, including 1,549 Democratic likely voters, with a margin of error of +/- 2.5 percent.

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x2882.xml?ReleaseID=1164