Teen severely maimed, possibly by Orthodox Jews

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Ragtime
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07 Apr 2008, 12:48 pm

This is a really upsetting story. The political and religious implications are manifest throughout the story, so in the spirit of reflective discussion I've posted it here in the PPR area.

Quote:
Messianic pastor's son injured by bomb in Israel
April 07, 2008
By Erin Roach

In one of the most serious attacks against the persecuted Messianic community in Israel, the 15-year-old son of a well-known Messianic pastor was severely injured March 20 when he opened a package delivered to the family's home that turned out to be a bomb.

Ami Ortiz, the youngest son of David and Leah Ortiz of Ariel, endured seven hours of surgery to remove shrapnel from his body. He suffered second- and third-degree burns, damage to his right eye and a collapsed lung, according to e-mail updates circulated by Messianic believers in the area.

Hannah Weiss, a close friend of the Ortiz family, described a conversation she had with the family's housekeeper a couple of days after the blast. The woman was distraught because she had retrieved the package from the doorstep and left the room only moments before Ami opened it.

The package looked like a traditional food gift exchanged among Jews for Purim, a festive holiday celebrating victory over oppression. A label on the package said "Happy Purim" in Hebrew, Weiss recounted, and was decorated with smiling faces and colorful letters. The top half was transparent cellophane with chocolates inside, she wrote in an e-mail released to Baptist Press.

Part of the family's apartment was destroyed in the blast, and Messianic believers are rallying to make repairs. Friends have said it is impossible to look at the apartment and believe that Ami survived the bombing, and doctors apparently have used the word "miracle" several times regarding his status.

David Ortiz, in an article by The Jerusalem Post March 23, gave an update on his son's condition.

"His neck had an eight-inch gash like someone slit his throat. He has a ruptured lung. Doctors had to operate on his tongue. He has second-degree burns to his chest and arms, and there is no flesh on the thighs," Ortiz said, adding that doctors amputated two of Ami's toes. "They're trying to continue to make sure that he won't lose his arms and legs. His whole body is full of fragments of shrapnel."

Police are investigating the crime, and the two groups under suspicion are Arab terrorists and anti-missionary Orthodox Jews, according to various reports. A Palestinian group called the Al Aksa Brigade claimed responsibility on Arab TV, but Weiss said the group has been known to make fictitious claims in order to boost their popularity.

Jim Sibley, a professor at Criswell College in Dallas and a former missionary to Israel, noted the paradox that exists in a region known for religious strife which largely rejects Jesus as Savior.

"Both Islam and Judaism, especially in their more orthodox expressions, really fear an open marketplace when it comes to religious ideas," Sibley, who knew Ortiz from his time in Israel, told Baptist Press. "This violence is born out of that fear. And yet it's this message of the Gospel that provides the only hope for people in the area."

The Jerusalem Post, in its coverage of the bombing, identified David Ortiz as "a prominent Christian pastor," "well-known in Ariel," where he has lived with his wife and six sons for more than a decade. The Post said Ortiz "works mainly with Palestinians in the West Bank, encouraging them to convert to Christianity."

Some Messianics may hope the bombing at the Ortiz home will turn public opinion regarding believers who have long been harassed in Israel. Howard Bass, head of a Messianic congregation in Beersheba, told The Jerusalem Post that in the past there has been "very little sympathy for our plight."

"We get the feeling that nobody in Israel is willing to take a strong stand against violent anti-missionary activity," Bass said in an article March 25.

Just before Christmas in 2005, Bass' congregation was attacked by hundreds of demonstrators who received the backing of the local rabbinic leadership, The Post said. Another Messianic believer, Edwin Beckford, is under house arrest. Last fall, arsonists set fire to Jerusalem's Narkis Street Baptist Church, which sustained minor damage.


Link

I managed to find more info on how he's doing, plus contact info for him, which was specifically provided for those who want to send him their condolences, encouragement, thoughts, and prayers via postcard:
Forum discussion and info
(Scroll to the bottom of the webpage for the P.O. Box.)

I've prayed for him, and am going to personally send him a postcard.


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Griff
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07 Apr 2008, 1:24 pm

Orthodoxy is always evil, whether it appears in Christianity, Islam, Judaism, or any other religion.



skafather84
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07 Apr 2008, 1:31 pm

Ragtime wrote:
I've prayed for him, and am going to personally send him a postcard.


i have a question and i don't mean it in an aggressive way.

will you also pray for and send a card to the family of the palestinian boy who was blow up by an israeli tank? the boy was throwing rocks at the tank and the tank responded by throwing a shell at him.

or maybe do something for the families who've lost children or had their kids maimed by israeli landmines left near palestinian school locations?



Ragtime
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07 Apr 2008, 1:55 pm

skafather84 wrote:
the boy was throwing rocks at the tank and the tank responded by throwing a shell at him.


Source?

I'm touched by your concern for the Israeli boy I mentioned. Oh, wait, you didn't show any. While he's bleeding and screaming from reconstructive surgery, you can sit back in your smug satisfaction or indifference -- whichever of those inhuman reactions you prefer.

And now to explain the obvious, regarding your quote:
Israel does not respond to children throwing rocks at tanks by exploding the children, and I seriously, seriously think you must know that.

skafather84 wrote:
or maybe do something for the families who've lost children or had their kids maimed by israeli landmines left near palestinian school locations?


Which landmines are you referring to? Again, source please. And again, Israel does not set up Palestinian children to be killed -- that's what Palestinian parents do, when they send their kids to smuggle and detonate suicide-homicide bombs. (Are you just deaf and blind to the constant news reports of this happening, or what?) Golda Meir's quote is fitting here: "Peace will come to the Middle East when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us." In other words, "Stop blowing yourselves up, and there will be peace."


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Last edited by Ragtime on 07 Apr 2008, 2:06 pm, edited 6 times in total.

LePetitPrince
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07 Apr 2008, 1:58 pm

Griff wrote:
Orthodoxy is always evil, whether it appears in Christianity, Islam, Judaism, or any other religion.


Religion is evil and Orthodoxy is evil because it applies the main basics of an old religion without any evolution.



monty
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07 Apr 2008, 2:05 pm

Could be either of the suspected groups. Some of the ultra-orthodox Jews are no better than the Taliban... harassing and beating women who take buses in Israel if the women are not dressed according to their idea of modesty.



Ragtime
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07 Apr 2008, 2:10 pm

monty wrote:
Could be either of the suspected groups. Some of the ultra-orthodox Jews are no better than the Taliban... harassing and beating women who take buses in Israel if the women are not dressed according to their idea of modesty.


Thank you. Finally, a sane reply in this thread. What you say is true. Some of the Orthodox have gotten way, way out of hand, not to mention out of mind. I mean, entering a Messianic congregation in the middle of the service, and forcibly preventing people's baptisms, while assaulting the preacher? :roll: Good grief -- if Jesus Christ were in Israel today, some of these Orthodox Jews would kill him again. :|

And purposely disrupting a prayer inside the church by shouting loudly outside the building? These people have gone mad.
Of what possible threat is a Christian prayer said inside a Christian church? Only on the spiritual plane / higher dimension could such be a threat to them.


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Last edited by Ragtime on 07 Apr 2008, 2:23 pm, edited 5 times in total.

skafather84
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07 Apr 2008, 2:12 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/192772.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2057847.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/date ... 954594.stm



a lot of violence against innocent palestinians bystanders isn't reported in the american media while there is an overabundance of details of israelis injured.

the bottom line is that no one should be hurt and it's horrible that innocent people are being hurt on both sides.


i didn't mean my post to dismiss the suffering of the israeli boy...just more to call attention to the fact that there is an unfair bias in the media towards garnering sympathy for israel and the israeli people first.



Ragtime
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07 Apr 2008, 2:18 pm

skafather84 wrote:
a lot of violence against innocent palestinians bystanders isn't reported in the american media while there is an overabundance of details of israelis injured.


Uh... heh, heh, I'm sorry, but it's in fact exactly the reverse. (I just had to laugh at that switcheroo.) You're either gullible, or wilfully self-deceptive. Everyone knows that about 4 out of 5 U.S. media sources are liberal; there are studies every year showing that, and liberals famously take the Palestinians' side. Not only are Palestinian sufferings reported much more than Israeli sufferings, but they are often attributed to being caused Israel, when in fact the cause of the Palestinian sufferings is always its own elected leadership: see "Hamas", i.e. U.S.-classified "terrorist organization", whom the Palestinians voted overwhelmingly to lead and, in function, to oppress them.)

And you're quoting exclusively from a news agency which has repeatedly admitted to being biased against Israel. WTF? You're just dishonest.


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skafather84
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07 Apr 2008, 2:26 pm

Ragtime wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
a lot of violence against innocent palestinians bystanders isn't reported in the american media while there is an overabundance of details of israelis injured.


Uh... heh, heh, I'm sorry, but it's in fact exactly the reverse. (I just had to laugh at that switcheroo.) You're either gullible, or wilfully self-deceptive. Everyone knows that about 4 out of 5 U.S. media sources are liberal; there are studies every year showing that. And that, not only are Palestinian sufferings reported much more than Israeli sufferings, but they are often attributed to Israel, when the cause of the Palestinian sufferings is always its own elected leadership. (See "Hamas", i.e. U.S. classified "terrorist organization", whom the Palestinians voted overwhelmingly to lead and, in function, to oppress them.)

And you're quoting exclusively from a news agency which has repeatedly admitted to being biased against Israel. WTF? You're just dishonest.



you're a f*****g moron and i'm not bothering further with you on this because you've deluded yourself beyond ever being able to see the truth.

so go on back to living in your black or white world.



Odin
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07 Apr 2008, 2:41 pm

Ragtime wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
a lot of violence against innocent palestinians bystanders isn't reported in the american media while there is an overabundance of details of israelis injured.


Uh... heh, heh, I'm sorry, but it's in fact exactly the reverse. (I just had to laugh at that switcheroo.) You're either gullible, or wilfully self-deceptive. Everyone knows that about 4 out of 5 U.S. media sources are liberal; there are studies every year showing that, and liberals famously take the Palestinians' side. Not only are Palestinian sufferings reported much more than Israeli sufferings, but they are often attributed to being caused Israel, when in fact the cause of the Palestinian sufferings is always its own elected leadership: see "Hamas", i.e. U.S.-classified "terrorist organization", whom the Palestinians voted overwhelmingly to lead and, in function, to oppress them.)

And you're quoting exclusively from a news agency which has repeatedly admitted to being biased against Israel. WTF? You're just dishonest.


There is no such thing as a "liberal media" in the US. The American mainstream "news" media are simply propaganda outlets of the multinational corporations that own them. GE, for example, owns NBC. GE also has defense contracts. It's pretty obvious that GE has an interest in making sure NBC has a pro-war slant to it's news.


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iamnotaparakeet
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07 Apr 2008, 4:59 pm

Odin wrote:
There is no such thing as a "liberal media" in the US.


I wouldn't say that. Even in the "conservative" state of Minnesota you have such media outlets as MNPR, Pioneer Press, and Star Tribune, at least those. Except for KTIS and KTLK I haven't heard too many conservative radio stations. You pretend to think NBC is for some reason, so I'll grant you that and FOX and CBN, but CNN and BBC America aren't conservative for certain and the others seem to have liberal bias as well.



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07 Apr 2008, 5:50 pm

LePetitPrince wrote:
Griff wrote:
Orthodoxy is always evil, whether it appears in Christianity, Islam, Judaism, or any other religion.


Religion is evil and Orthodoxy is evil because it applies the main basics of an old religion without any evolution.


On the whole I think religion is a positive thing. But I have a problem when people take it to extremes and logic goes out the window.



iamnotaparakeet
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07 Apr 2008, 6:03 pm

MR_BOGAN wrote:
LePetitPrince wrote:
Griff wrote:
Orthodoxy is always evil, whether it appears in Christianity, Islam, Judaism, or any other religion.


Religion is evil and Orthodoxy is evil because it applies the main basics of an old religion without any evolution.


On the whole I think religion is a positive thing. But I have a problem when people take it to extremes and logic goes out the window.


They were logical enough to build an explosive and make it appear like a friendly gift.



zendell
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07 Apr 2008, 6:12 pm

Griff wrote:
Orthodoxy is always evil, whether it appears in Christianity, Islam, Judaism, or any other religion.


Religion has brought a lot of good to this world, especially Christianity. You can be certain that it wasn't a Christian who mailed the package! Christians would never kill innocent people.