Democrats and liberals: Why are you not more liberal?

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Fred2670
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09 Apr 2008, 8:02 pm

Warsie wrote:

Basically you said you would shoot all the liberals.

Yeah ok sorry for the confusion
I merely and figuratively embellished the rag

The very premise of this thread is nothing more
than a trap. Kind of a "tell me what you think and
I'll tell you why you're wrong" sort of post.

Trolls afoot
Ye be warned

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Warsie
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09 Apr 2008, 9:43 pm

^^
cool

good night too.

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Kilroy
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09 Apr 2008, 9:46 pm

Fred2670 wrote:

Great thread ! !!

Will the liberals in the room please stand up.. so I can pick them off one by one with my ultra arrogant right wing fanaticism gun. In fact who out there thinks they might be the most liberal? I want to fire a couple shots into THAT guy first.

could be me :!:

...

use_your_words
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10 Apr 2008, 9:10 am

Ragtime wrote:

So, I wanted to ask those who are in favor of liberal policies why you choose not to just spontaneously be as liberal as possible.

I'm not sure I entirely understand what you're asking. I mean, people don't generally just choose to be "liberal" or "conservative" (at least, not as far as I know). They have opinions on certain issues, and then derive their ideology from those opinions, not the other way around. If someone shares a more liberal point of view on most issues, and then a conservative point of view on a few, why should they sacrifice what they believe about those few issues just to spontaneously be as liberal as possible?

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10 Apr 2008, 10:20 am

Fred2670 wrote:

tax the wealthy
then tax them again
and if they dont like it
tax them some more

Accomplishes nothing. Just gives the government more money to waste. (Do you think the government spends your money wisely? Do you really? Here's a list of government waste) in just 2008.

Only people who are into short-term revenge like the idea of taxing the hell out of the wealthy.
It might feel good in the moment, but in the long run it only hurts the economy, and that means it's the little guy that suffers.
(Who do you think runs out of food first if the economy crashes? The wealthy or the poor? Take your time.)

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Ragtime
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10 Apr 2008, 10:35 am

Fred2670 wrote:

Warsie wrote:

Basically you said you would shoot all the liberals.

Yeah ok sorry for the confusion
I merely and figuratively embellished the rag

Get off the rag, Fred.

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10 Apr 2008, 10:38 am

use_your_words wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

So, I wanted to ask those who are in favor of liberal policies why you choose not to just spontaneously be as liberal as possible.

Well, I'm really speaking to those on the left who, if perhaps only slowly, find that they continue to steadily drift left over time.
I'm asking them, essentially, "If you're going toward the far left anyway, what is the meaning behind the slow pace? Is it because it would bother you to accelerate that transition?"
Take sexuality. Few if any people want to be called a slut, even though 50 years from now "normal" sexual behaviour would be considered slu*ty if it were practiced now.
So, behaviour-x in the present = slu*ty, while behaviour-x in the future = normal.
So, how is behaviour-x slu*ty? Is it just a societal thing? So, everyone eventually doing "slu*ty" thing makes those things "normal", and not slu*ty?
This whole "Progressive Morals" thing just seems more like paced moral decline.
(Note the positive connotation in the word "progressive". It's called "progress" to slowly become less moral.

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Awesomelyglorious
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10 Apr 2008, 11:00 am

use_your_words wrote:

I mean, people don't generally just choose to be "liberal" or "conservative" (at least, not as far as I know). They have opinions on certain issues, and then derive their ideology from those opinions, not the other way around. If someone shares a more liberal point of view on most issues, and then a conservative point of view on a few, why should they sacrifice what they believe about those few issues just to spontaneously be as liberal as possible?

Actually, on some level, people do. These issues don't exist in a void, but rather all fit together in a conceptual framework for society, and I would argue that ideology often can start first it is just that it becomes recognized through the positions taken.

Fred2670
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10 Apr 2008, 3:46 pm

Ragtime wrote:

people who are into short-term revenge like the idea of taxing the hell out of the wealthy. It might feel good in the moment, but in the long run it only hurts the economy, and that means it's the little guy that suffers.

people who aquire their wealth by oppressing the little guy would certainly agree with this philosphy.

I believe those who have profited the most from a system, where the gap continues to widen between the haves and have nots, should shoulder a larger share of taxation. If when increasing a profit margin, you take food off the table of the less fortunate and clothes off their childrens backs you should also fund social programs and nonprofit organizations that aid their welfare. How else (besides importing foreign migrants) would you maintain your labor pool?

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Awesomelyglorious
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10 Apr 2008, 4:06 pm

Fred2670 wrote:

If when increasing a profit margin, you take food off the table of the less fortunate and clothes off their childrens backs you should also fund social programs and nonprofit organizations that aid their welfare. How else (besides importing foreign migrants) would you maintain your labor pool?

How many instances do people increase a profit margin by taking away food and clothes from others? I'd like to see the company that finds such thefts to be an effective business strategy. Perhaps I am taking you too literally, but really, I don't think that there is a problem maintaining labor pools nor do I think that labor pool management is something that businesses would be *that* concerned about.

Fred2670
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10 Apr 2008, 4:41 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

How many instances do people increase a profit margin by taking away food and clothes from others?

It happens all the time. The "others" happen to be what we commonly referr to as "employees" and the absent food and clothes represent low and stagnant wages. Cmon Aweglor did you really need me to spell that out for you? Connect the dots baby.

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Warsie
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10 Apr 2008, 5:24 pm

Ragtime wrote:

They want to be "mainstream" but still be in "the forefront".

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Awesomelyglorious
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10 Apr 2008, 7:13 pm

Fred2670 wrote:

But technically the conceptual problem is that these wage issues aren't issues of theft. Low and stagnant wages are a problem of bargaining power, and bargaining power relates more to labor market conditions than necessarily profit margins. Jobs exist for the sake of profit margins really. The reason I wanted you to spell this out is so that way I had an analytical framework to work with rather than some vague statement.

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10 Apr 2008, 7:27 pm

Fred2670 wrote:

The correct word is "Waterboarding", saying "Gun" just confuses him.

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Fred2670
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11 Apr 2008, 2:13 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

The reason I wanted you to spell this out is so that way I had an analytical framework to work with rather than some vague statement.

o ok no problem
Im sure coming up with an analytical clockwise spin
is easier than a solution to the problem

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Awesomelyglorious
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11 Apr 2008, 2:15 am

Fred2670 wrote:

o ok no problem
Im sure coming up with an analytical clockwise spin
is easier than a solution to the problem

Easier than a solution, and easier to get a solution when you have the proper spin too.

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