Page 1 of 2 [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Hyzera
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 43

12 Apr 2008, 3:56 pm

I just finished reading the book, Catcher in the Rye. And I was wondering...what psychological "disorder" does Holden (main character) have?

To those whom have read the book, you can see that he has some Aspie traits like social awkwardness. But, in my opinion he isn't autistic, just has some personality "disorders".

Well, what do you think?



pakled
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,015

12 Apr 2008, 7:42 pm

I don't know...but there's a truism that every psycho, mass murderer, and extremely violent nasty has been found with a copy in their possession....which goes to show you can't judge a book by it's reader...;)

All I remember is him railing against 'phonies', but it's be 20-odd (very odd) years since I read it...;)



Mage
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,054

12 Apr 2008, 7:51 pm

I thought he was the typical moody middle-classer that we now call emo. Seems common for most people to go through that "wahhh I hate my privileged lifestyle and family" phase at that point in their lives now.



equinn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Gender: Female
Posts: 649

12 Apr 2008, 8:28 pm

oh no no no--you have it all wrong. Holden Caulfield is much more than a whiner--he sees the underbelly of a person and he is a saint--the world troubles him, and he's right, it sure is troubling. This is one of my favorites. Holden is my hero.

Yes, I do think he's an aspie--red hunting cap, inappropriate comments, mimicing adults in order to make conversation, analyzes everything, repetitive (keeps asking the same questions over and over--where do the ducks go in the winter?)

He has extreme social issues because he feels as if he can't fit in with his peers. He is consumed with pointing out hypocrisy and phonies because he sees it and thinks about it.

The result is depression and hospitalization.

Salinger himself is a reclose and has never surfaced since the book. He will not allow book to be made into movie. He was very eccentric in many ways and Holden is, most likely, parts of him.

equinn



Lavos
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 11 Apr 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 117

12 Apr 2008, 8:48 pm

to paraphrase family guy..

he's a PHONY, a big fat PHONY!



anbuend
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Jul 2004
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,039

12 Apr 2008, 8:57 pm

I could never follow that book.


_________________
"In my world it's a place of patterns and feel. In my world it's a haven for what is real. It's my world, nobody can steal it, but people like me, we live in the shadows." -Donna Williams


tmad40blue
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 7 Nov 2006
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 398
Location: Ann Arbor, MI

12 Apr 2008, 9:26 pm

Since he ends up in a hospital at the end and consistently has those fainting fits towards the end of the book, I guess that that has something to do with it.



sgrannel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,919

12 Apr 2008, 10:35 pm

tmad40blue wrote:
Since he ends up in a hospital at the end and consistently has those fainting fits towards the end of the book, I guess that that has something to do with it.


I should reread it, when I have time. Maybe he is an aspie? Someone once asked me if I had read this book. What is your avatar supposed to be?



marshall
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,752
Location: Turkey

12 Apr 2008, 10:45 pm

Hyzera wrote:
I just finished reading the book, Catcher in the Rye. And I was wondering...what psychological "disorder" does Holden (main character) have?

To those whom have read the book, you can see that he has some Aspie traits like social awkwardness. But, in my opinion he isn't autistic, just has some personality "disorders".

Well, what do you think?


I read it not too long ago.

I don’t think he's autistic because he doesn’t seem to have trouble partaking in social banter. He only has trouble opening up to people. He could if he wanted to but he doesn’t because he’s afraid. Instead he just acts silly/insincere around people. Then he excuses his behavior by judging the people he communicates with as “unintelligent” or “phonies” unworthy of a real conversation. Meanwhile those people are probably thinking the same thing about him. I don’t know what “disorder” you would associate that kind of behavior with other than being a teenager.

I could relate to some of his feelings of apathy and cynicism but not necessarily his behaviors.



equinn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Gender: Female
Posts: 649

13 Apr 2008, 8:04 am

"I don’t think he's autistic because he doesn’t seem to have trouble partaking in social banter..."

It's all scripted and fake when he speaks. He memorizes what to say. EVerything is internal, his thoughts...

Asperger/HFA people CAN have social conversations, I had thought, because they learn how to say the right things in a somewhat timely manner-almost like actors. The problem is it is awkward at times and so people perceive them as "phony" and so this could be why Holden appeared "phony"...

He simply didn't fit into a NT world as hard as he tried. He was consumed with nuns eating dry toast and how this is saintly and how can he reconcile with the rest of us slobs eating regular food--steak and potatoes.

He thought he had to be the catcher, the protector of all young children so that they didn't fall off the side of the cliff. He carried the weight of the world on his shoulders.

This is not a personality disorder. He was beyond his years and astute in his observations of people and their motivations. Those that call him the "phony" don't truly understand his motives. He was suffering the sins of the people and he couldn't move forward. He couldn't relate to his peers because he was so far beyond them--like an old soul.

equinn



AngelUndercover
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 2 Dec 2006
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 408
Location: somewhere else

13 Apr 2008, 8:39 am

I tried to read it a few years ago; I couldn't get more than halfway through it. Holden just seemed annoying to me.


_________________
"I don't even know how to explain it, but this is not my dimension, and my mind is never at peace; it's always somewhere else." - Josh Groban, Alla Luce Del Sole


moose65536
Butterfly
Butterfly

User avatar

Joined: 8 Mar 2008
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 10

13 Apr 2008, 8:49 am

This is my favorite book, and coincidentally, my college class just reviewed it as a young adult novel. I don't think Holden has any sort of disorder at all, and I also don't think he is "better" than the people around him.

Holden is one of the first "teenagers" in American literature, and his main struggle is the realization that he is leaving childhood and entering an unsure world of adulthood. He is only hypercritical of adults, who he sees as phonies and sell-outs. He talks about all children (his brother Allie and his sister Phoebe) as if they are perfection personified, even though it becomes clear Phoebe isn't as nice or innocent as Holden thought her to be.

At the same time as he detests the adult world, he wants to be a part of it, which is why he smokes and drinks and attempts to be with a prostitute.

The novel slowly details Holden's realization that you can't "protect the innocent" and they don't want to be protected in the first place. What Holden probably didn't realize in the novel was that his idea of those who are innocent is not very accurate. When he goes to his old school and sees a curse word scratched on the wall in chalk, he thinks a "pervert" must have snuck in during the night to write it, when it was most likely another kid.

Holden also says things like “where do the ducks go in the winter?” which seems completely obvious to me and I didn’t understand until the 8th time I read this book that it is symbolic. Holden is actually questioning what happens when children become adults (or when they are forced into the “winter” or adult world) this concern can apply to other children or Holden’s feelings about himself. He asks many adults in the novel where the ducks go, and either they don’t have an answer, or they give a nonsensical one—which shows that adults don’t know too much about growing up either.

So, Holden’s main problem is he can’t let his image of innocence he sees in children be shattered because he is nostalgic and uncertain about his own future. By the end of the novel, however, Holden realizes you can’t protect anyone and you shouldn’t to begin with—you should let them figure it out for themselves.

-sorry if I went off-topic



Poeticromance
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Age: 29
Gender: Female
Posts: 272

13 Apr 2008, 1:14 pm

Hyzera wrote:
I just finished reading the book, Catcher in the Rye. And I was wondering...what psychological "disorder" does Holden (main character) have?

To those whom have read the book, you can see that he has some Aspie traits like social awkwardness. But, in my opinion he isn't autistic, just has some personality "disorders".

Well, what do you think?


I read that twice and when I read it I was thinking "This guys sounds a lot of like me." I even thought that before my AS was brought up and it makes me think, maybe he had AS and was never told of why his state of mind is the way it is. The author probably didn't want to get into it much. J.D. Sal's opinion of a teenaged kid is that from what I've heard.



Hyzera
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 43

13 Apr 2008, 2:28 pm

Thanks for all the replies. Only if you guys had replied earlier :P
I've already wrote and printed out my essay.

Here's an excerpt from my "diagnosis" of Holden

Quote:
Holden’s psychological situation and his personality traits seem to branch out and touch a lot of different known psychological disorders. For example, one might argue his chronic depression [141] and his inability to emotionally connect to people fit in with a form of Autism known as Asperger’s Syndrome. However, his ability to function in social situations such as parties and other highly social areas [71] contradicts what most people refer to as an “Aspie” trait, so it can’t be AS. Since Asperger’s syndrome is ruled out, and is within the highly functioning part of the Autistic Spectrum, anything lower such as LFA (Lowly Functioning Autism) can be ruled out. However, out of all the different psychological disorder symptoms Holden’s personality splinters out and touches, I think Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is a major one. Experiences like Allie dying and D.B going to Hollywood [164] to become what he hated most (phonies) could have severely impacted and changed Holden’s personality early on in his life. Also, the event that probably destroyed all faith and trust he had in society and people were when James Castle from Elkton Hills, jumped to his death. The bullies that “pushed” James to his death were merely expelled from school and let off the hook. They didn’t get sanctioned as severely as Holden expected. [170]



anbuend
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Jul 2004
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,039

13 Apr 2008, 3:40 pm

I now remember hearing other students at my high school discussing how their English teacher said he was schizophrenic. I don't remember anything they said about it other than that they claimed he was hallucinating a voice saying "F*** you" or something. I don't remember the story well enough to even remember that happening.


_________________
"In my world it's a place of patterns and feel. In my world it's a haven for what is real. It's my world, nobody can steal it, but people like me, we live in the shadows." -Donna Williams


Hyzera
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 43

13 Apr 2008, 3:45 pm

anbuend wrote:
I now remember hearing other students at my high school discussing how their English teacher said he was schizophrenic. I don't remember anything they said about it other than that they claimed he was hallucinating a voice saying "F*** you" or something. I don't remember the story well enough to even remember that happening.


He wasn't hearing things. He was at a school and saw "F*** You" written on the wall, and he got really pissed. Then he started ranting about how he hated that word, and how someone might scribble "F*** You" on his gravestone just to mock him.