Page 1 of 3 [ 37 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

archetype
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 2 May 2007
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 75
Location: Connecticut, USA

23 Apr 2008, 9:27 am

There seems to be many who want to do positive things in the world.

I want to as well.

My 'project' is a live/work community (and more) for, of, and by Autistics. This would be a 'center', an actual physical place ... or places, as there's enough of us around all about.

Mostly, I miss living in an artists' community, and I have other projects that I'm working on. I know how beneficial is was for me to reside in an artist's community for 9 years.

The 'center' (or whatever it might be called) is a physical building or an industrial complex turned to mixed-use, or some other piece of real-estate. It is owned by Autistics ... by Autism. The 'ownership' organization is irrelevent to me; it simply needs to be secured by, of, and for Autistics, and without any other embedded self-interests. The doors of this would be open for every Autistic. It would be really ours, and without NT interference. We decide our own projects. we fund our own projects.

Given the fact that Autistics, throughout history, have contributed at least 50% of science, math, and culture to this planet, I have no doubt that such a center would become self-sufficient. I have no doubt that it would be much more than self-sufficient, and that it would be able to re-invest revenues into more and more funding for more and more projects. We would operate in a way that is not NT-based, but appropriate for Autistics who do not enjoy marketing themselves - and are not really competitive, and we aren't really into capitalistic 'survival-of-the-fittest. All these things involve doing the things we don't enjoy doing, but really dislike doing.

This 'center' would obviously be physically located somewhere, and not everyone could partake of its benefits. Those who have jobs, families, etc., wouldn't have much access to a single location.

But, the idea would be that this would be just the first 'center'. We would want to have enough of these locations that everyone could have access to them.

Typing on a keyboard infront of a computer monitor is one thing; but meeting in person and having dialogue would be much more fulfilling. Certainly, those wanting and able to take up a living/work studio in the building would have a most fulfilling experience, as I did residing in my artists' community. Socializing was difficult at first - but I kept having successful social experiences, found myself very interested in the other artists who were like me, and discovered that I no longer had to expect social failure, but based on my social successes, could expect a social success when I did invite people over or go out to visit others - or go into the world at large.

The lower level of my artists' community was home to various businesses; such, the lower level of an Autistic community could be home to many non-profits and all types of ventures. Because it would be a community, and because only Autistics would partake in the community resources, we could actually have community resources to vastly augment the capabilities of any one project or effort. We could also draw upon each others' knowledge, gifts, talents, and experience.

I don't know where this 'center' would be. I live in Connecticut, so I think that a more Southerly location would be better. Heating costs get prohibitive - and nice days are nicer, anyway.

I would be looking at an Atlantic coast location (USA), as I only have a viable one-day moving duration, as well as a one-day excursion time to examine sites.

After the mid-Atlantic facility was established (modeled after my artists' community that worked so well and was so magical and wonderful), other facilities could be established, having a little more experiential knowledge of what works well and what might not.

A community of about 100 people, with various other cultural, scientific, artistic - and everything else - goings-on to provide a greater available vitality would be about ideal, from my experience.

Once a building is procured, it keeps on providing. It would be an asset that would be an asset for everyone, continuously.

Funding obtained by one project could assist another project.

NT's can't cooperate that well, but Autistics would be able to. We're made to cooperate, not to compete. This planet needs that now. There's no more reason for competition. The planet is officially conquered. If this planet is to survive, it will now require cooperation.

Also, I would be insistant on placing suffering as the 'enemy' of such center. As an Autistic center, it would be dedicated to relieving and ending Autistic suffering and pain and isolation. The more that Autistics feel better and have their needs met, the more they wuld be able to contribute, and we now get into a positive, upward cycle. The doors would simply be open and any Autistic welcome. Success would hopefully inspire more Autis to reach for that success. We provide it to and for ourselves, because we can.

the internet is nice and all ... but it isn't 'living'. I don't consider myself actually 'living' right now; I'm just waiting for something to happen. But it won't unless I actually do something. This is what I would like to do, how I would like to live, and how I would like to work.

I would be very happy to simple live and work together. I know I am trustworthy - and I feel that at least most Autistics are - so I'd be willing to share the responsibilites of running the center ... but I have no urge to own it. It would be held in common.

I think this beats all of us trying to compete in a fashion that isn't really how we're made to operate.

Any thoughts or ideas???

Thanks


_________________
- Archetype


Viola
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Age: 30
Gender: Female
Posts: 414

23 Apr 2008, 9:39 am

Cool. I'd definately come visit.



sartresue
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Age: 66
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,313
Location: The Castle of Shock and Awe-tism

23 Apr 2008, 11:16 am

Making it work (together) topic

Reads great, Archetype. I like that it would be on the Atlantic coast, as I live in Ontario. It would not be as hard to reach.

I lived briefly in a commune in Western Canada in the early 1970s. I am not territorial, so community living is not a problem and there is privacy when you need it, even if it is a small space. Mutual respect is everything. :)


_________________
Radiant Aspergian
Awe-Tistic Whirlwind

Phuture Phounder of the Philosophy Phactory

NOT a believer of Mystic Woo-Woo


zghost
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Age: 45
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,190
Location: Southeast Texas

23 Apr 2008, 11:47 am

Quote:
I would be looking at an Atlantic coast location (USA)

I would suggest not coastal in that area, hurricanes like it too much. Belive me, they're NOT fun to deal with. I'd suggest maybe a couple hundred miles inland.
But I guess if you really love the coast, give it a try.

I think it sounds like a great idea over all.



krex
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Age: 57
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,471
Location: Village of the Damned

23 Apr 2008, 12:01 pm

You might find this interesting reading.....

http://www.wrongplanet.net/modules.php? ... ic&t=42448


I also dream of an aspie run community but personal obligations for many people,(can't relocate, don't want to exclude the NT's in their lives or familys, can't decide on "where") killed the idea for me....for now.


I've been interested n communal living (with clearly defined personal spaces) since I was a kid. I read a lot of books about the hippy communces and got the impression that they were mostly destoried by drug use. I was informed by others who have actually lived in such communitites that ...many of those people are still around 8O and have made it work. I do think it is possible but personally didn't have the orginizational skills to figure out the funding and other important details.


I wish you much luck. I want something like this and haven't given up all hope that someone can get it together....leaving the apartment would be my biggest hurdle.


_________________
Just because one plane is flying out of formation, doesn't mean the formation is on course....R.D.Lang

Visit my wool sculpture blog
http://eyesoftime.blogspot.com/


burnse22
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 6 Apr 2008
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 383

23 Apr 2008, 3:54 pm

archetype wrote:
Given the fact that Autistics, throughout history, have contributed at least 50% of science, math, and culture to this planet, I have no doubt that such a center would become self-sufficient.


FACT? You can't just make stuff up and call it a fact. We have no way to diagnose people throughout history. It's simply guesswork and conjecture.

Quote:
NT's can't cooperate that well


Why not?


This whole "centre" idea just seems like an escapist dream. Communes like this have been tried before and it always ends the same: everybody pretends they're happy and lives in virtual poverty.



archetype
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 2 May 2007
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 75
Location: Connecticut, USA

23 Apr 2008, 4:53 pm

burnse22 wrote:
FACT? You can't just make stuff up and call it a fact. We have no way to diagnose people throughout history. It's simply guesswork and conjecture.

Ok, you got me doing my most detested thing; conjuring 'wanted truths' as ''facts'.
I should have used a "probably" in there, somewhere.
There was a humorous and derogotory insinuation in my - perhaps - exaggerated 'fact'; and this *might* be part of what you're reacting to so strongly about.

But, you are right; I did 'envision' that and actually call it a 'fact'.
My wry and witty self aside (or maybe included), I am not doing anything constructive by calling speculations "facts".
My apologies.
I hate when I do that.

burnse22 wrote:
Quote:
NT's can't cooperate that well

Why not?

Well, you answered part of the "that they can't".
Why they can't is a bit lengthy. I usually am careful and thorough with what I write so that there aren't any misinterpretations or misunderstandings - but, I'm a- thinkin' - that with you - I might have to be extra careful and attentive.

******* WHY NT'S CAN'T COOPERATE WELL ******
NT's have personalities; Autistics do not. Autistics only adopt personalites as necessary to navigate this NT world, but do not identify with these adopted personalites.
This is the premise from which I developed the above statement.
If you disagree with this premise, then you will disagree with the conclusion.
I derive this premise from looking at myself, at NT's, and at other Autistics and what they write and how they write it.
It appears evident to me, but can't be considered a scientific fact.
That's one of the gifts that Autistics have; they can know. It's a gift I've always had.
Whether it's technically a theory - or whatever - for me, this is evident.

This one I don't find or feel any reason to retract.
I'll stick, I'll wish, I'll stick, I'll wish; I'll stick to it as "fact".

But, that's what a forum is for, and I'll listen to opposing ideas, since I'm Autistic and have a heavier vested interest in the truth than in my winning an untruthful debate.
It's what I see; like a chair, or a chipmunk.

burnse22 wrote:
This whole "centre" idea just seems like an escapist dream. Communes like this have been tried before and it always ends the same: everybody pretends they're happy and lives in virtual poverty.

Escapist, yes.
Do you socialize all day? If so, you probably don't need or want to escape. But I sure do. I want to escape very, very much. I want to escape this horrible hurtful world and create a more beautiful and enjoyable world.
Even if it means doing so independently of the rest of the world; although I'll help out as much as I can.
I lived in an artists' community. That was wonderful, magical, and beautiful. It was an escape from the very brutal world outside our windows. It was also a rejuvenation - like going home after work might be - so that we could better deal with that brutal world from a more positive stance.
"Escape" is not a 'bad' word, unto itself.

I'm not talking about a commune; I'm talking about something modeled after the artists' community I lived in. That was a very large industrial building and there were artists' lofts in it. Within this community, some people were more independent and some were more communal. I really enjoy a communal feeling, but I also like and need my 'space', too. I got everything I needed in my artists' community. I didn't have to leave the building for any of my needs ... except to go to the corner store. When I did leave, it was because I wanted to

I lived in virtual poverty for 9 years and was very most happy. Other people where very well-off and financially successful. It was an artists' community, and there were many people who lived there for 14-18 years ... when the building was converted. Everyone was an artist (almost) and everyone was very individual. Most individual; and they, being artists, created the world they prefered to live in, as a gift to themselves. Just like you might arrange the furniture in your home to your preference. There's no difference between you living in your home and me living in a community, as far as escapism goes. I just get much more of my needs and wants met living in a community than I do living alone in a rented house.

I understand your viewpoint, because what you're talking about is accurate - for what you're talking about. That's different.
I am proof that a community can work; and I'm proof that an Autistic can love living in a community and have unimagined success in life.

I never pretended I was happy when I lived in my artists' community - I didn;t have to because I actually was happy; pretending I was happy is something I did all my life before I moved into the community. Now that it's gone for 6 years, I still don't pretend that I'm happy.
It's a tragedy that this most special community was bought out by suits who gentrified it and kicked us artists out.

You've a smart wit and sharp mind. I ask that you please extend me the benefit-of-the-doubt; that I mean well and write truth, and say what I see. I do make mistakes, and please correct me; but please don't misinterpret everything I may have to say because I might make a few mistakes. I intended some humor, which would have been evident if I had spoken the sentence, and I agree that this ended up counter-productive; but again, I just ask that you would extend a certain benefit-of-the-doubt and work with me, trying to understand what I'm really meaning instead of finding a mistake and letting it taint everything.

It just takes an understanding that we are all vested in the truth - and it's evident that you are representing truth when you write. We work together to find that truth. I don't see opposition here, just some misunderstandings. We're different than NT's, and don't seem to have their ulterior motives and manipulative agendas. It seems to me that we can have more faith and trust in each other, certainly call out our mistakes and understand our mistakes, and work together.

How many people here do you view as having malicious intent?


_________________
- Archetype


burnse22
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 6 Apr 2008
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 383

23 Apr 2008, 5:38 pm

Sorry if I'm picking on your word choice, I tend to get pendantic sometimes, especially when it comes to history.

Quote:
NT's have personalities; Autistics do not. Autistics only adopt personalites as necessary to navigate this NT world, but do not identify with these adopted personalites.


I have to disagree with your premise I'm afraid. Just by looking around this forum you find so many people with so many different interests, skills, hobbies, opinions, traits, religions. While autistic people may attempt to change themselves to fit in with the rest of the world it doesn't mean that everything they do there is somehow false. I see it more as a breakdown in communication. I think that autistic people have natural tendencies to develop different methods of communication or coping mechanisms. I wish that the rest of the world could understand that, and I hope that some kind of middle ground could be reached. I think that non-autistics do try to understand autistics, it's just for the most part they don't know how, and vice versa.

I'll clarify my position on the autistic community idea. I know that it worked for you and I'm OK with that, but I get the feeling you're assuming that everybody would react to it the same way. When I say "escapist dream" I mean to emphasise the "dream", that I just don't believe it could realistically work for an entire population. I like escapism myself, but I try not to let them interfere with reality.

Quote:
I ask that you please extend me the benefit-of-the-doubt; that I mean well and write truth, and say what I see


I understand that you mean well by the way. I just disagree with you over what you define as truths.

Quote:
How many people here do you view as having malicious intent?


I don't know how many people have a malicious intent, as I have trouble identifying motives, but I'm willing to take a hopeful guess that the overall majority of ALL people are essentially good people.



Inventor
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,014
Location: New Orleans

23 Apr 2008, 6:21 pm

I am still at it, I like the southwest. It is the only part of the country where there is cheap land.

You can hide from heat, but have to fight cold.

It is the only place where the poorest can become owners.

Come fall I will be building.

I have been developing an economy, aspies do work well together.

Isolationist as ever, but think with enough space, an aspie colony could work.

Land, an adobe house, costs about as much as a year's rent, but then you own it forever.

What you can make of it, if you can put up with yourself, is case by case.

I do not want to convince the world of anything, what I do on private property is none of their business.

I am pro autism, I do not want to be fixed, corrected, cured, or learn how to get along with the world.

Developing my talents, thinking like I do, and not being bothered, are my goals.

It has been the only thing that worked.



velodog
Gold Supporter
Gold Supporter

User avatar

Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,373

23 Apr 2008, 6:42 pm

Hi Archetype, I tend to agree more with burnse22 regarding Auties having personalties. They seem to express themselves different than NT's, but they do have personalties. At the meeting that I have attended 3 of the last 4 months I have found that I seem to get along with Aspies to about the same extent as I do non Auties. If you do get an Aspie/Autie community together then I hope you would have success with it. But it is difficult to get people all on the same page even in a real structured environment like the military, so a voluntary cooperative would require the right mix of people. On the bright side, some of us have skills that we could donate to help wire up community centers & such if it ever gets off the ground. Something I believe you should consider is that if you ever become the public face of such an endeavor then any anti non Autie prejudice that you have stated on this board or other public forums could come under scrutiny and bite the project in the ass.



archetype
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 2 May 2007
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 75
Location: Connecticut, USA

24 Apr 2008, 1:23 pm

velodog wrote:
Something I believe you should consider is that if you ever become the public face of such an endeavor then any anti non Autie prejudice that you have stated on this board or other public forums could come under scrutiny and bite the project in the ass.


Hi again Velodog,

Yes, I understand. I have strong and passionate views and feelings.

I also understand that I am not speaking for everyone, and I do state that. At least, I do here and now - and will continue to do so.

While I can handle whatever fallout there may be from what I see as obviously true, and which I state without hesitation, I take full responsibility for my actions and words. My actions are mine, what I say, I say. I believe in freedom of speech, but I believe that I need to take responsibility for what I speak.

**** RANT ABOUT OTHERS SPEAKING FOR ME, LIKE "AUTISM SPEAKS" *****

I do not think anyone can adequately speak for me, and anyone who tries to do so without my permission is an enemy of mine. So, Alex Plank and Autism Speaks are directly my enemies; I never, ever gave them permission to speak on my behalf, and I disagree full-out with whatever these NT-political statements are which these entities speak. Just the fact that thee is an actual Enterprise called "Autism Speaks" means it is my enemy. I do not get to speak whan "Autism Speaks" speaks. That is not my voice. That is not at all what I speak. How uttely presumptuous for a teenager or young man to speak for me, and what I am, and what I have done in my life. I knew approximately zero as a young man, and had far too much to learn. Everything that I really know begins at 27yo for me. At 25yo, I was a publisher. I stopped after my first issue, because I wasn;t speaking properly. Alex Plank and Autism Speaks are not speaking properly, yet they continue to do so, without self-moderation, without self-assessment.

I will speak.
I speak far better and far more truthfully and far more clearly and far more lucidly than Alex Plank, no more than half my age, and far better than any NT-PC for-profit non-profitable, give some NT's a high-paying salary Instition such as Autism Speaks.

I really wish they'd stop speaking for themsleves, under the guise that they are speaking for me, and hoaxing the NT public that they are actually speaking for me.

I do not want them to speak for me, not ever. Why can't they stop speaking for me? I have my own very adequate voice. I'm completely certain that I can speak for myself and do not need a younger man half my age to speak for me. When a man can do more than what I've done in life, then maybe he might have some reason to speak for me. What does he think he's doing???
Who gave him the right???
I know I didn't.
Did you?
How utterly presumptuous, how disrespectful.
I guess he just saw fit to give himself the right to speak for me.
I don't think he would ever dare presume to even being to try to want to speak for me if he were to meet me in person. He'd piss his pants. I have far too much power, and I would only need look at him. The little boy's knees would buckle out from under him.
Him??? Speaking for me???
That is audacious.

When do I get to speak when "Autism Speaks" speaks?
Do I get a turn, or is this just for those who allow and give themselves the right to speak for me, and I am inadequate to speak for myself?
What's the problem? Does "Autism Speaks" not want me, an Autistic to speak? Do they have a vested interest in speaking for me?

I smash "Autism Speaks" to the self-serving pettiness they be. I break the spine of "Autism Speaks". I crush the skull of "Autism Speaks". It shall never speak for me.

What I have done, how I have challenged myself, what circumstances I have placed myself in, how I have survived the unsurvivable, what mirrors in life, this world, and reality I have tested myself against ... etc., etc., ... I find give me a right to have an experienced, thoughtful, and powerful voice.
I thought I could speak when I was 25, but in one month discovered that I wasn't quite ready yet. I was only off by 20 years. I only had another 20 years of discovery to do until I became, finally, ready to speak.

What do these people want, speaking for me, and gaining notoriety at my expense? How much money are these people making ... all at my expense?

I don't think you need worry about me.

I do not, have not, and will not ever do that.
I speak for myself only, as that is all I can. I speak the truth I see; is there something other that I should speak?
I sign my name to everything I say and do - and have always done so since I was a child.
I knew better when I was 7yo than Alex Plank and those of Autism Speaks know that they do actually give themselves some delusion that they have the right to speak for another.
You need their agreement and permission to do that ... plus you have to allow any disagreements to be voiced at any time. you just need to step aside and let another's voice be heard. No-one has the right to speak for others. You need their agreement and express permission to do that.
But Alex Plank and the Autism Speaks people, and all the rest of the sucking predatorial leeching world is making some "non-profit" Official Organization to speak for me - while providing themselves with a nice salary for speaking for me and all of them fighting to gain the public stage so the can suck more money and Authority - all at my expense - for themselves.

This is disgusting.

Please, Please, Please let everything I say come under the highest scrutiny.

I will only speak what I speak, and I would only speak for other with their permission. When I speak, I speak the truth, and I speak for those who can see that truth; that is who I speak for. Anyone else has to agree with what I speak for me to actually be speaking for them. They have to say that I am speaking for them. Otherwise I am not, at all.
But, this is a forum, and I do not speak - and can not speak - for anyone else fully; only they can. The forum allows me to speak on behalf of the truth I see, and allows for others to agree and disagree in their own voice.
I cannot speak for others; I do not have that right. Nobody has given me the right to speak for them. I do not think that it is possible for me to speak for others. I could only speak what is agreed to and with specific permision, and I could not go outside of those bounds. To speak for another fully is impossible.

I detest anyone who would dare attempt to speak for me; I give my agreement or my permission - and I have not given it to anyone.

I agree with many others here on so many things, and yes; their words do so very often speak for me. But only I can say which of those words speak for me.
I am over-joyed at finding people here who can actually speak for me. But it has to be understood exactly what they say that speaks for me. Then they can speak for me, absolutely.
You, velodog, may speak for me. You have much that you may speak for me about. But no, not everything; and that's just obvious.

**** END OF RANT ****

But it is an honor and gift to meet you here and that you can, in fact, speak for me. I do not, after all, have a solitary voice. So many here speak so much for me.

I speak the truth as I see it evidenced before my eyes. That truth is very simple.

I am not at all concerned with what I say coming under scrutiny; I invite that more than anything.

What I am concerned about is that others may not wish to deal with any fallout from what I say, and I will protect them from any fallout and take it myself ... as I have always done since I was a child.

I state that NT's (which I call humans, as I do not have the same intangible traits by which humans define themselves as human, even though I do have the physical body of a homo-sapiens mammal) are inevitably hurtful in the end - if not outright hurtful, that I am tired of suffering their hurt (malice) and their subconsciousness (idiocy), and that I no longer wish to live in their hurtful world (in which they hurt themselves just as much as they hurt me), and that I no longer wish to be subject to their subconsciousness (idiocy ... like creating more laws for themselves than any one of them can ever know or remember ... and then holding each other responsible to those laws, and punishing themselves because they can't possibly know their own laws).

I have no problem making this statement ... at all.
I make this statement. I am responsible for it.
Some may and some may not agree with what I speak.
Others are only responsible for what they speak for themselves.
And ... please ... let it come under scrutiny.


_________________
- Archetype


archetype
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 2 May 2007
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 75
Location: Connecticut, USA

24 Apr 2008, 2:25 pm

velodog wrote:
Hi Archetype, I tend to agree more with burnse22 regarding Auties having personalties. They seem to express themselves different than NT's, but they do have personalties. At the meeting that I have attended 3 of the last 4 months I have found that I seem to get along with Aspies to about the same extent as I do non Auties.


I haven't met - to my knowledge - any Aspies in person. It is likely that I have, however; I just didn't know what Autism really was, nor that such a thing as AS existed.

So I can't possibly disagree with your findings.

I can, however, continue to state that Autistics do not have the same vested interest in their personalities that NT's do, and that they do not identify with their personalities like NT's do.

It is difficult for Autistics and NT's to understand each other, and how they experience the world. I feel very confident that I understand NT's. I a,m able to break apart the personality of an NT by talking about what their personality does, which is always in conflict with thier ego.

I understand NT's because I have been trying to be like them for 40 years.

I have, in my life, een better at being an NT than NT's are. I can beat them at their own game. But it is draining and exhausting and no real fun at all. There is no winning. I just lose. So I don't do that anymore.

I am far more powerful than any NT. I have caused an inner-city police officer to fall to the floor, his eyes wide open and his jaw dropped, with his knees buckled out from under him ... because I spoke to him.

NT's are terrified by me.

I have been jumped by about 10 blacks in a ghetto wanting to stomp a white boy when I was 38yo. I walked out of that ghetto on my own two feet.

I frighten my own psychiatrist, that he becomes dysfunctional as a psychiatrist. I just speak truths, and he cannot handle them. He gets hurtful, and I have to stop him. He's terrified of me know. I am just too powerful, and he's in his delusion of his office, protected from the world, thinking he is his personality, that he's really a psychiatrist, and that he actually has power (the power and magicl of psychology, to protect him and ward off enemies) and Authority ... and that he actually knows something - all of which are untrue.

I know NT's all too well.

I am beginning to know Autistics.

I know myself, and base what I know on what I know and see about myself. This accuracy is reflected in forums such as this, and in other correspondences I've had, and in scienticfic findings, such as one which scanned the brains of Aut and non-Aut children playing a game, and stated;

"Aspies have a lack of sense of self"

Correct finding (it would take me forever to find that study again, but it was there). Autistics have much less a "sense of self" ... or "personality identification", to be much more accurate, than humans do.

Perhaps it might be more acceptable for me to state:

Autistics have no personality self-identification.

LFA's don't have a personality, at all. I went to private school with an LFA, and there was no personality there.

Over and over, Aspies talk about "acting", "selling themselves", "playing the game" ... etc.. If Aspies had personalities like humans did, they wouldn't have difficulty with all these things. These are exactly the things which human personalities do.

burnse22 wrote:
I have to disagree with your premise I'm afraid. Just by looking around this forum you find so many people with so many different interests, skills, hobbies, opinions, traits, religions.

Hi Burnse22,

Those are not personalities. Human personalities are public facades, social personnas, which humans create for themselves to navigate this world with. They believe they are those constructs they make. The human personality is a mechanical defense mechanism; it prevents the human from feeling anything directly and anything outside of their personality constraints. This mechanical defense mechanism can be taken apart and broken; I can do so to any human in about 3 hours, max. This phenomenon is vastly much different that the Autistic personal preferences and viewpoints you listed.
Those are not human personalities. Not even close.
You do not have a personality. You're Autistic.
That is not a problem, nor is it bad.
You do not lack a personality; you're not supposed to have one.
You do not have the same problems humans have.
You are fortunate.

Aspies adopt personalities, and have learned to, in order to survive. Humans cannot deal with me, and Autistic without a personality, who sees and knows everything their personality is doing in real time, as their personality does it's mechanical behavior.
Aspies do not 'identify' themsleves as their personaliteis, however, even thought they may learn to adopt personalities. This is was Aspies call "acting".
Humans "act" just like this, but unlike Autistics, believe that they aren;t acting, and that the acting is who they really are.

That's what a human personality is, and why Autistics do not have those - or, at least, identify themselves with a personality the adopt in order to survive and emulate human behavior.

Why are Autistics different than NT's? Because they have no personalities.

It is the very fact that Autistics do not have personalities which is exactly what makes Autistics different from humans.

Yes, fact. I qualify myself as an expert in this, and that I am every bit - if not more - scientific than anyone else professing to be able to determine what is a 'fact', and that if anyone can determine something to be 'fact', I can just as well.
So I determined that this is a 'fact'. This is a very conscious determination, not like the exaggeration of the other "fact" I made which you pointed out as non-factual, and which you were correct about.
It then boils down to; Who has the Authority to proclaim that something is a "fact"?
I do, when I do proclaim such. I have that authority. It's obvious to me.
Most scientist and such do not have the authority to proclaim something as 'fact' ... because they are, in fact, incorrect. the fact that they are incorrect mean that they do not have the authority to probclaim a fact.

Do you have any other measure of how a 'fact' can be proclaimed? Need their be universal consensus? No, history has proven that.
So what designates a 'fact', and who can proclaim something as 'fact'?
I've given my views on the matter.

burnse22 wrote:
While autistic people may attempt to change themselves to fit in with the rest of the world it doesn't mean that everything they do there is somehow false.

Nothing we do is false. I never, ever thought that, and if that is interpretable from anything I wrote, then I should clarify it.
We don't even succeed well when attempting to be false.

I don;t know how you came up with that from what I wrote; nothing could be further from how I view things.

I state that everything humans do is false. Autistics do not know how to be false, and are terrible at being false.

Anyhow, this has gotten pretty far off topic. I'm to blame, myself; I even went into a rant about others speaking for me.

This was intended to be a very positive topic about working together and community.
Let's try and bring it back there.

Burnse22, I'm honored to have more dialogue on the various subjects we've been discussing; but perhpas this is not the place, as we'll get so tangential that I wonder if the thread is already busted. Name the subject matter and the appropriate forum, and I'll post the topic in that forum, or you can and let me know.


_________________
- Archetype


archetype
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 2 May 2007
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 75
Location: Connecticut, USA

24 Apr 2008, 3:15 pm

Inventor wrote:
I am still at it, I like the southwest. It is the only part of the country where there is cheap land.
You can hide from heat, but have to fight cold.
Come fall I will be building.
I have been developing an economy, aspies do work well together.
Isolationist as ever, but think with enough space, an aspie colony could work.
Land, an adobe house, costs about as much as a year's rent, but then you own it forever.
I do not want to convince the world of anything, what I do on private property is none of their business.
I am pro autism, I do not want to be fixed, corrected, cured, or learn how to get along with the world.
Developing my talents, thinking like I do, and not being bothered, are my goals.

Hi Inventor,

I'm intersted in hearing more about this project.

I agree that a warmer climate is better, especially in view of the heating costs or resources needed for heating.

The Southwest ... as in desert? Do you have any photos of the land? It would be intersting to see, and people could have a much more complete understanding of the environement.

What will you be building this fall?

I heard from another AS that you have a printing business. I started in the publication industry at 13yo. I'm familiar not with printing so much, but with the fields that printing serves; publications, media, advertising, marketing ...

I think that an Aspie economy is very viable; Aspies have contributed a lot to this world through history, and I don't see why we still wouldn't. Given the variety of contributional potential, probably anything is possible.

Apies do work well together? Are there others with you in this project?

I'm not so isolationist. I like my space and privacy when I want it, but I've become pretty social other than that. Not so social right now, but I'm sure I would be with the right people around. Right people to me = honest people.

Given those finances, where ownership is about one year's rent, I'm ready. I'm just moving every year, anyway. I vieew strongly that land ownership is most important; this provides autonomy from NT's and is an asset that continues to provide for the Aut community at large forever. Starting off with just basics is feasible. Growing the economy (which I view as community - Aut - funding), I view as very possible. I might not be interested in living in an adobe in the desert, but others may really like it, and in any event, it can be a Aut asset which is not controlled by NT's. Plus it can be a facility which can server the Aut community in the SW region. So all of this seems very positive. Given more funding, the SW community could be expanded and a few more amenities and luxuries put in, and with the funding I hope to generate, I would probably look at establishing another community. I've lived in poverty most of my life, and I'm ready for a change. I don't need that much, but I am tired of being helpless against greater forces and circumstance.

Private property. That's why I'm hesitant to do anything non-profit. Then the NT's have you. Private property makes sense.

I'm out to prove something. I've been accused of "escapism" here; I don't think that a community is any more escapist than going home. I am torn between just leaving the world behind and simply living a good life, as I deserve it, already. But, I'm not really a person to hide from anything; I tend to take action, and it's always been difficult for me not to. I can;t see myself just leaving the world behind, because there's too much suffering and too many people that I can't accept leaving behind. I wouldn't like it if I were left behind by my elders who I needed to fight and speak with their knowledge and power when I was young. I was always disappointed that there were no elders who could do that for me. No-one taught me anything worthwhile. No-one every stood up for me. I feel that I can do that, and so I feel that I should.
I don't want to disturb people who don't with to be bothered. I understand how others may not want to contest with the world. I don't know that I'm ready to stop. But I sure could use a vacation, a little help, some recuperation, talking to someone who wasn't NT.
Yeah, I might take an adobe. I don't envision staying the rest of my life, and I do envision working to create another, different kind of community (mostly different because of environmental, living situation, and location, plus that I would want to be involved in something that took a more active role. In that event, I suppose I would let someone else use my adobe.
I understand not wanting to be bothered - very well. I was not bothered for a number of years, and that alone was most relieving.
I think various communities would be great, and each one could have its main reason or spectrum, offering something for everyone. A reclusive community, to just get away from the 'bothering', and to simply be ourself and do your thing, sounds very excellent ... and probably a lot more of those might be desired.
I don't think there's a need for many 'active' communities; but we'll see, if all goes well.
So, although I am 'out to prove something', I wouldn't want to disturb a community where people didn't want to be disturbed by the NT world. So I wouldn't bring that into such a community.

I'd like to hear more, see more, know more.

I want full rights for myself, and I want to be known as a different than human. I am a different sentience than human, and humans have absolutely no rights over me, at all.
I will fight for that.
But I'm not going to invade others with that fight. I hope that others find their feelings and understandings to be similar, but that is something I view as self-actualization, something the individual becomes.

I hope to hear more about this community, and your efforts.


_________________
- Archetype


Inventor
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,014
Location: New Orleans

26 Apr 2008, 5:27 pm

Desert is the future, better lands were exploited first, and are being made into deserts.

The picture would be mostly the same, flat, knee high brush, spaced for water.

150 years ago much of it was grassland, it was strip mined by cattle, then sheep, goats, reducing it, but life holds on.

Evaporation increases, the remaining water becomes salty, which protects it from further exploitation.

Survival is based on intelligence. Many people live comfortable lives in the desert with little but their wits.

Water is the first need of life, followed by food, then shelter. It is all there, but only for those who can see it.

Flat land beneath a burning sun, a film of life over the surface. 9" of rain, cactus, 12" sage and soapweed, 20" grass, 30" trees, 60" dense triple canopy jungle.

What I am building is what survives, life that shelters underground. One can dig down, or build up, but a foot of earth between you and the sky is the same. Adobe, thick walls, roof, and there is another climate within. Cool on the hottest days, warm on the coldest nights.

Water is in fact abundant. 12" of rain is over 40,000 cubic foot per acre. Many have survived on nothing more than capturing the rain that falls on their roof.

There is food, but most would starve, but crops can be grown.

Water, food, shelter, Internet, and I am good.

Being social has nothing good to do with my survival, walking ten miles, wasting my food and water, decreases me.

Economics is real, what is in it for me is real. I owe the world nothing. The only reason to deal with it is to gain. I am not a food supply waiting to be eaten.

My relationship with all others is based on enlightened self interest. It is up to them to show they have worth in my world.

Who are you? Why should I care? What is in it for me?

Ibn Khaldun, Thomas Jefferson, John Locke, Adam Smith, all said the same.

There must be a rational exchange that benefits both parties. Anything else is exploitation and theft.

Owning your own means of support, a freehold, is the basis of freedom.

"Freedom of the press applies to those who own one", Thomas Jefferson.

All community is through economic gain or dependancy. I chose gain.

If I want something from someone, I think of what I have to offer them.

I look at each exchange to see how we can both gain more.

Freedom is the best thing I can offer.

An adobe hut in the desert is ownership of a place to be, and for a bit of effort, water and food.

You are free to produce, trade, work off the place, anything that gives you a gain.

All we really have is our labor. Adobe is a very effective way of saving labor. Make bricks, build with them, it is yours. Several rooms, a walled garden, and it is your place to be and get enjoyment of your labor.

If you want things from the world, you must find a way to trade for them. My trade involves printing, I need power, supplies, Internet, but only sometimes, so I can share with others, and gain from their use. One Broadband connection can supply a square mile.

One well can be jointly owned by ten freeholds. Or one person who trades water. Wind pumps water, produces electric, so do solar cells.

The principal is freedom, one man's freedom ends where another man's begins.

So I am not trying to join people together, but to get them to the one place from which they can freely make those choices for themselves.



Inventor
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,014
Location: New Orleans

26 Apr 2008, 7:38 pm

Where I agree with you about Autism Speaks speaking for me, which they try, I disgree about Alex Plank.

Alex speaks for himself, is autistic, and is free to do as he pleases.

I watch everyone, and get no sense that he speaks for any but himself. Nor does he define autism, only supplies some links, and the broadest description.

His comments were, how suprised he was to discover how broad the community here is, in age and opinion. He has done nothing to hinder it's free development.

There are a few who are highly opinionated, and do try to define autism, like inventor, but being over sixty he is from another time, and can only give views to compare to recent views.

There is no doubt about his views on the Psychobabbling pill pushing Priests of the new store front religion Psychology, from the same era, and combining Scientology with drugs. It is not a Science, has no facts, it is a Faith Based Movement, just like every other Cult.

As for Imaginary Geek Disease, show me two alike! You will not find them here, but we do have something in common.

I am Pro Autism, whatever it is it worked for me, and I only recently discovered it now had Brand Identity.

I have been giving talks on inventiveness and creativity for years, in schools, and now discover I was teaching children how to become disabled?

I was telling the little dears that only obsessive focus gets things done, on the wall was a poster about the value of Persistance, and now I hear that is a disorder?

Autism Speaks says we spend out time painting the walls with feces, Pschology says everything we think and do is Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

Alex has given us this lovely playground, and supports freedom of thought, expression, up till it creates harm.

Alex is great, he has done a wonderful thing that has helped thousands.

Alex is not making any money from this, I am in business, it cost him cash and years of labor. It is not a non profit, it is a free man doing what he thinks is right. He has given me something I value, and I have sent him a donation.

So click on,

Support Wrong Planet Awareness, and keep those donations coming.



archetype
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 2 May 2007
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 75
Location: Connecticut, USA

26 Apr 2008, 11:38 pm

Hi Inventor

Thank-you for taking the time to describe more your efforts and views on your efforts.

Thank-you also for your view on Alex Plank and Autism Speaks; I will retract my statement about Alex, given your statements, which appear more knowledgeable than mine ... but I shall hold to my statements about Autism Speaks, based on what I have seen, supporting my enemy "Franchise Coffee, Inc Places Everywhere", and speaking 'for' me and about me - and others - without our permission or input.

You have put out a small landslide of thought-provocations. I can't comment on them all, as I'll be writing for a few months.

Inventor wrote:
Survival is based on intelligence. Many people live comfortable lives in the desert with little but their wits.

I have lived primitively, and I have survived numerous and various types of desolations. I no longer wish to survive, but to prosper. I don't need much for myself. But what I have come to enjoy, I do enjoy, and don't wish to without. Now that I am free, I am free to pursue and have everything I need, and want, which wants are very basic for the most part.

It is impossible for me to determine if I can meet my needs and be as happy as I wish to be, and feel I deserve to be, in such an environment as you are entering. I would have to do some research about adobe room size possibilities, about possible mixed-materials structure to provide the type of large volume of space I require for comfort, more about climate, about proximities to other various resources, and general lifestyle factors.

The thought of independence and freedom at such a financial price is most alluring, I must admit.
This is nicely within the realm of my own financial realization. I am very most tired of renting and moving every year, and it would be nice to have an actual 'home' to hang my helmet in.

I will research a bit further, and determine if this is suitable for me. I have no experince with desert, and have never been in such a climate.

I have come to enjoy working with others, so 'barnraising' is something that I would derive a pleasure from. I would also enjoy co-operating to establish any commons.
There are fascinating new processes and concepts in everything, so I have no doubt that a desert climate would provide many opportunies for new methods and means - which is always most interesting and desirable a challenge to me.

I would like to do a little more general research and put in some thought, and then likely wish to ask you more educated questions which would be considerations for me. I don't want to grope around blindly, asking questions to discover which questions I wish to ask :P

Inventor wrote:
Flat land beneath a burning sun, a film of life over the surface. 9" of rain, cactus, 12" sage and soapweed, 20" grass, 30" trees, 60" dense triple canopy jungle.

30" trees? 60" triple canopy jungle?

Inventor wrote:
What I am building is what survives, life that shelters underground. One can dig down, or build up, but a foot of earth between you and the sky is the same. Adobe, thick walls, roof, and there is another climate within. Cool on the hottest days, warm on the coldest nights.

I'll take a split-level.

I prefer a palatial single room, with balconies and alcoves, probably amorphic, given the building material. I am used to large, internal columns within my space.
Given your knowledge of adobe construction, are there existing means to produce a large volume of internal space - about 2,000sf with 15ft-high ceilings at the exterior walls? Is this a viable type of internal space for the climate? This is the spatial characteristic I need to be comfortable. I cannot stand living in houses or apartments. A large cement tunnel would be preferable.

Inventor wrote:
Water is in fact abundant. 12" of rain is over 40,000 cubic foot per acre. Many have survived on nothing more than capturing the rain that falls on their roof.
There is food, but most would starve, but crops can be grown.

I'm terrible at caring for myself in such fashion.
I am especially terrible at cooking for myself; so I don't.
I can live on air for about 3 weeks, but it does get uncomfortable. It's just that my stomach wants something in it and complains heavily. I could fill it with small sand bags, or hackey-sacs, I suppose.

You are personally able to live self-sufficiently off the land?

Inventor wrote:
Water, food, shelter, Internet, and I am good.

Internet = computer = electricity; how so= electricity?

Inventor wrote:
Being social has nothing good to do with my survival, walking ten miles, wasting my food and water, decreases me.

I enjoy socializing now, very much. I guess I'll take care of the tourists who want to see the arid Amish-like Aspies. I'll be bizarre for a fee. More bizarre for an exponentially increased fee.

I enjoy a pleasure in the world. In my most well-being, I enjoy walking, as it is effortless, and my entire body is massaged by the movement.

Nothing is needed, except for a higher purpose. I don't need to breathe; unless I wish to live. I don't need to smoke cigarettes, unless I wish to enjoy smoking. I don't like to make meals for myself, nor do I need to, unless I want to eat and continue living. I don't need to socialize, unless I wish to enjoy life more. I don't need to derive pleasure, unless I want to be pleased. I don't need to enjoy, unless I wish to enjoy enjoying.

That I am capable of these things makes them self-evident to and for me.

Inventor wrote:
My relationship with all others is based on enlightened self interest. It is up to them to show they have worth in my world.
Who are you? Why should I care? What is in it for me?
Ibn Khaldun, Thomas Jefferson, John Locke, Adam Smith, all said the same.
There must be a rational exchange that benefits both parties. Anything else is exploitation and theft.

I agree, but not so stoicly. Enjoyment-for-enjoyment's sake is a gift I readily accept. I do no longer question my experiences; I experience them as fully as I am able and unafraid to.

1) I am patently me. My name is of no importance and has no real meaning; as such I am not a 'who' but a 'what'. You might ask "What are you?", instead.
2) Because I am worth caring about; it is a proven fact the more intelligent and actualized an individual is. I fascinate myself, and am the most fascinating thing I know of, and can't understand why anyone else would think or feel differently about me. I am far more fascinating that any rock, tree, human, star, river, or cow I have ever seen and been fascinated by. You must fascinate yourself; I find you fascinating - almost as much as me.
3) All the possible knowledge in the Universe, genuine assistance and care, genuine friendship, genuine appreciation (that I am nealy half as fascinated by you as you yourself are), genuine humor, genuine enlightenment(s), and genuine joy ... as well as patently me, which is ultimately fascinating.

I hear reminiscence of Utilitarianism; therefore, I ask the one and only Ultimate Utilitarian Question:
- Of what use are you to me?

... there ... ta-Da!!; you can now boil everything down into one single, simple, spear-heading question, which you can ask of everyone and everything and anything. There can only be just one Utilitarian question; every other question is of only secondary or tertiary import, and as such, is ultimately useless. Zero use for something ultimately useless.

Ibn Khaldun, Thomas Jefferson, John Locke, Adam Smith; Of What Use Are They To Me? Are they all dead yet?
Can I not think superior to each of them upon my valid whim?
What thoughts did each them have that I have not already had, independently, in far greater detail, to the end, and to my decree of abolition?
Why should I concern myself with their thoughts, when I impromptu summarize them in a seven-word sentence? A book? All that for a seven-word sentence? I can emmigrate a thousand categorical sentences from my folliest whimsicality in the time it would take me to read any of their clumsy probings into a mental arena which defeats them with its own landscape. The quick or the dead; not quick enough.

I prove and provide my worth, yet again; thank-you.

Inventor wrote:
Owning your own means of support, a freehold, is the basis of freedom.
"Freedom of the press applies to those who own one", Thomas Jefferson.

Either that, or you are one tough mofo.
Yes, I am very tired of other's owning my freedom with their freehold I pay for.
Jefferson is witty; but I already knew his meant. He just produced it in a witsome manner.
Do I gain from his wit which knowing I already am?

Inventor wrote:
All community is through economic gain or dependancy. I chose gain.

Causality inversed arbitrarily.
You could choose 'community', instead, from a premise of economic gain.
This provides much more freedom of choice and ownership.

Inventor wrote:
If I want something from someone, I think of what I have to offer them.
I look at each exchange to see how we can both gain more.
Freedom is the best thing I can offer.

Freedom is an excellent bargain.
I offer freedom of thought from both all peers and predecessors. You become the source of the future, incarnate. Ten miles of footsteps is aeons of thought and witnessing.
Worth the trip, anytime.
(genuine brilliance combined with genuine humor combined with genuine actualization combined with genuine care and comraderie. But only because it is possible.)

Inventor wrote:
An adobe hut in the desert is ownership of a place to be, and for a bit of effort, water and food.
You are free to produce, trade, work off the place, anything that gives you a gain.
All we really have is our labor. Adobe is a very effective way of saving labor. Make bricks, build with them, it is yours. Several rooms, a walled garden, and it is your place to be and get enjoyment of your labor.
If you want things from the world, you must find a way to trade for them. My trade involves printing, I need power, supplies, Internet, but only sometimes, so I can share with others, and gain from their use. One Broadband connection can supply a square mile.
One well can be jointly owned by ten freeholds. Or one person who trades water. Wind pumps water, produces electric, so do solar cells.

I'll use some money to augment my provisions.

Inventor wrote:
The principal is freedom, one man's freedom ends where another man's begins.
So I am not trying to join people together, but to get them to the one place from which they can freely make those choices for themselves.


You are confusing; one could almost vote you as "Least-likely to take part in a community."
A new movement is born; Territorial Utilitarianism.
I was voted "Least-likely to ever make sense."
I stopped making sense, making sense, when I had to stop thinking some time ago; it hurt to think.
I believe it was when I first started living in a community, and I became happy.
Your ethics are solid and certain.

Knowing everything, I retain the frustration of my will stuck within the bound of my body. I retain the frustration of others owning my freedoms, of having lost mine, being legally stolen. I retain the frustration of trying to work with others, with not much luck.
I am Frustrated.

I need to break from my own frustration. Maybe I should make mudpies, build an igloo of dirt in the desert. Sit back and relax, settle down with my native ash and dust I came from, and wait for the world to finally pass me by; "I was never here."
... oh, and one more thing; "You're on your own."

- Sir Richard, the archetype


_________________
- Archetype