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Swerty
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16 May 2008, 9:33 pm

As I herd from the news the media is now cracking down on autisim as something that was caused by a certain chemical in vaccinations. In the news it was told by an author that the government has been hiding this from us here is the article:
(CBS) Because Alex Donnelly is autistic, he can't communicate normally or lead a normal life.

Yet he has some amazing abilities. When asked what the capital cities of Turkmenistan and Venezuela are, he can answer "Ashkerbad" and "Caracas" accurately.

His father claims Alex wasn't autistic - until he got certain vaccinations containing a mercury preservative.

As kids got more and more vaccines over the years, more mercury came with them - in amounts way over safety limits. The Center for Disease Control and Prevention has long claimed it's not the cause of autism or related disorders, and mercury is still in flu shots recommended for babies this fall, reports CBS News Correspondent Sharyl Attkisson.

A half dozen childhood vaccines still have mercury,but the shots most kids get have little to none, so flu shots this fall are the biggest outstanding issue.

Does the amount in a flu shot matter? The theory is yes. In genetically susceptible children, even small amounts of mercury can damage the brain and the mercury buildup is cumulative in those children who lack the ability to shed it.

The flu shot is particularly important because babies will get it twice the first year and then continue getting it once a year thereafter. There are 25 micrograms of mercury in a single flu shot. Compare that to the current safe levels of mercury most kids get in their cumulative vaccinations in 2004 which is something like .4 micrograms all together over several years.

Nobody makes the claim that all ADD and autism cases are caused by the mercury in vaccines. But many researchers believe it plays a large role in our epidemic of the 1990's.

But now, a landmark study by Dr. Mady Hornig, from the Mailman School Of Public Health, Columbia University, is adding to the mercury worries, as Attkisson finds out.

Hornig injected a strain of mice with genetic tissues similar to those found in children with mercury-laden vaccines equivalent to what kids got in the 1990's. The mice developed profound brain problems.

So what types of behavior did Hornig see in the mice, and how does that compare with what we call autism? Dr. Hornig answers, "All sorts of strange behaviors that were repetitive in nature, where animals would just keep repeating the same behavior in a very stereotyped fashion."

It wasn't just repetition -- the mice withdrew from their surroundings like autistic children. They resisted change and developed brain abnormalities affecting emotion and thinking, also like autistic children.

Alex's father, Jim Donnelly, says it only confirms what he's believed all along: most kids aren't harmed by mercury in vaccines; they shed it naturally, but some retain it, and it poisons their brains.

Says Donnelly, "When (Alex's) testing came back, he had mercury levels that were 20 times the EPA safety margin residing in his body. It was unbelievable."

Other scientists and the CDC dispute such a link. But if it's true, hundreds of thousands of American kids could be living with the fallout. And the results could be devastating to vaccine makers and federal health officials who have steadfastly defended the use of mercury, a potent neurotoxin, in childhood vaccines.


By Sharyl Attkisson©MMIV, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.

And the video by MSNBC if you don't feel like reading:

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=rE8kmifM6HU[/youtube]

Do you belive this and how does this make you feel???


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LoveableNerd
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16 May 2008, 9:54 pm

As I've posted previously, mercury is a KNOWN neurotoxin and causes significant brain damage in vulnerable children. While there is strong evidence that it doesn't cause autism, the fact is the brain damage it does cause can produce enough autism-like symptoms that the end result doesn't matter.


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beau99
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16 May 2008, 10:06 pm

Except that the level of mercury that used to be in vaccines is nowhere near significant enough to do much.


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16 May 2008, 10:09 pm

beau99 wrote:
Except that the level of mercury that used to be in vaccines is nowhere near significant enough to do much.


Not in normal children, but for those that have genetic factors that prevent their body from properly disposing of it, it accumulates.


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16 May 2008, 10:26 pm

LoveableNerd wrote:
beau99 wrote:
Except that the level of mercury that used to be in vaccines is nowhere near significant enough to do much.


Not in normal children, but for those that have genetic factors that prevent their body from properly disposing of it, it accumulates.

No it doesn't.


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LoveableNerd
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16 May 2008, 10:39 pm

beau99 wrote:
LoveableNerd wrote:
beau99 wrote:
Except that the level of mercury that used to be in vaccines is nowhere near significant enough to do much.


Not in normal children, but for those that have genetic factors that prevent their body from properly disposing of it, it accumulates.

No it doesn't.


Did you not read the article by the original poster? Here, I'll quote the pertinent part:

Swerty wrote:
Alex's father, Jim Donnelly, says it only confirms what he's believed all along: most kids aren't harmed by mercury in vaccines; they shed it naturally, but some retain it, and it poisons their brains.

Says Donnelly, "When (Alex's) testing came back, he had mercury levels that were 20 times the EPA safety margin residing in his body. It was unbelievable."


Now granted, there was the opposing attitude:
Swerty wrote:
Other scientists and the CDC dispute such a link. But if it's true, hundreds of thousands of American kids could be living with the fallout. And the results could be devastating to vaccine makers and federal health officials who have steadfastly defended the use of mercury, a potent neurotoxin, in childhood vaccines.

However, keep in mind the CDC is a government funded agency, and its funding is dependent on politicians who get their own campaign funding from... guess who? That's right, big pharma. Money talks, BS walks, and they won't remove all the MERCKury vaccines until the public outcry is overwhelming... wouldn't want Merck's stock to drop a few points just to save a few kids brains, now would we?

BTW, since the current topic is flu vaccinations, it might interest you to know that it has come out that the most current flu vaccines still contain mercury. Mercury-free versions are available, in limited supply, but you have to ask for them. Most places don't volunteer the information, and most people don't realize mercury is still in the main supply. Article here

I've posted extensively on this topic in other threads... watch the video that shows the neurons shriveling up when a trace amount of mercury is introduced. Watch the cgi models of the molecular breakdown of what is actually happening. Even the kids who do shed mercury are being damaged, just not usually enough to be noticeable and they are young enough that the dead neurons are replaced.

Anyway, I'm not against vaccines, just unhealthy neurotoxins and other harmful material that has no business being in there.


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17 May 2008, 1:10 pm

Beau, mercury accumulates in ALL our bodies; it's bioaccumulative. The body can get rid of tiny amounts of it, but if you add it up and add it up it becomes a toxic overload.

Now, mercury poisoning isn't autism. They're different. We know that.

But mercury DOES cause damage to the brain, amongst other things. When you also consider that pretty much every other vaccine ingredient is also a neurotoxin, and they're given in much higher doses than they were, say, 20 years ago, and they add up and add up, it's not hard to see that there's going to a problem for those kids who are genetically susceptible. I'm not saying all autism is vaccine-induced at all, that's not the point. I am saying there is good evidence that vaccines can induce autism-like symptoms and behaviours in those who are susceptible though.

And why would you get the flu vaccine anyway? This year's one didn't protect against any of the current strains anyway, and how many times do you hear people saying they ended up with the flu after getting the flu vaccine?! I don't know one person who's not ended up sick after it, it's appalling. Why would you bother?


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Thomas1138
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18 May 2008, 4:53 am

Quote:
And why would you get the flu vaccine anyway?


Because about 50,000 people in the United States die from the flu every year?



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18 May 2008, 8:08 am

Thomas1138 wrote:
Quote:
And why would you get the flu vaccine anyway?


Because about 50,000 people in the United States die from the flu every year?


No, they don't. At all. The average figure for yearly flu deaths is usually between 700-1,300, and most of those aren't verified as the actual flu virus.

How about we let the BMJ explain. :)

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/ ... /7529/1412

Quote:
BMJ 2005;331:1412 (10 December), doi:10.1136/bmj.331.7529.1412

Press
Are US flu death figures more PR than science?

US data on influenza deaths are a mess. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) acknowledges a difference between flu death and flu associated death yet uses the terms interchangeably. Additionally, there are significant statistical incompatibilities between official estimates and national vital statistics data. Compounding these problems is a marketing of fear—a CDC communications strategy in which medical experts "predict dire outcomes" during flu seasons.

The CDC website states what has become commonly accepted and widely reported in the lay and scientific press: annually "about 36 000 [Americans] die from flu" (www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease.htm) and "influenza/pneumonia" is the seventh leading cause of death in the United States (www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm). But why are flu and pneumonia bundled together? Is the relationship so strong or unique to warrant characterising them as a single cause of death?

David Rosenthal, director of Harvard University Health Services, said, "People don't necessarily die, per se, of the [flu] virus—the viraemia. What they die of is a secondary pneumonia. So many of these pneumonias are not viral pneumonias but secondary [pneumonias]." But Dr Rosenthal agreed that the flu/pneumonia relationship was not unique. For instance, a recent study (JAMA 2004;292: 1955-60[Abstract/Free Full Text]) found that stomach acid suppressing drugs are associated with a higher risk of community acquired pneumonia, but such drugs and pneumonia are not compiled as a single statistic.

CDC states that the historic 1968-9 "Hong Kong flu" pandemic killed 34 000 Americans. At the same time, CDC claims 36 000 Americans annually die from flu. What is going on?

Meanwhile, according to the CDC's National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS), "influenza and pneumonia" took 62 034 lives in 2001—61 777 of which were attributed to pneumonia and 257 to flu, and in only 18 cases was flu virus positively identified. Between 1979 and 2002, NCHS data show an average 1348 flu deaths per year (range 257 to 3006).

The NCHS data would be compatible with CDC mortality estimates if about half of the deaths classed by the NCHS as pneumonia were actually flu initiated secondary pneumonias. But the NCHS criteria indicate otherwise: "Cause-of-death statistics are based solely on the underlying cause of death... defined by WHO as `the disease or injury which initiated the train of events leading directly to death.'"

In a written statement, CDC media relations responded to the diverse statistics: "Typically, influenza causes death when the infection leads to severe medical complications." And as most such cases "are never tested for virus infection...CDC considers these [NCHS] figures to be a very substantial undercounting of the true number of deaths from influenza. Therefore, the CDC uses indirect modelling methods to estimate the number of deaths associated with influenza."

CDC's model calculated an average annual 36 155 deaths from influenza associated underlying respiratory and circulatory causes (JAMA 2003;289: 179-86[Abstract/Free Full Text]). Less than a quarter of these (8097) were described as flu or flu associated underlying pneumonia deaths. Thus the much publicised figure of 36 000 is not an estimate of yearly flu deaths, as widely reported in both the lay and scientific press, but an estimate—generated by a model—of flu-associated death.

William Thompson of the CDC's National Immunization Program (NIP), and lead author of the CDC's 2003 JAMA article, explained that "influenza-associated mortality" is "a statistical association between deaths and viral data available." He said that an association does not imply an underlying cause of death: "Based on modelling, we think it's associated. I don't know that we would say that it's the underlying cause of death."

Yet this stance is incompatible with the CDC assertion that the flu kills 36 000 people a year—a misrepresentation that is yet to be publicly corrected.

Before 2003 CDC said that 20 000 influenza-associated deaths occurred each year. The new figure of 36 000 reported in the January 2003 JAMA paper is an estimate of influenza-associated mortality over the 1990s. Keiji Fukuda, a flu researcher and a co-author of the paper, has been quoted as offering two possible causes for this 80% increase: "One is that the number of people older than 65 is growing larger...The second possible reason is the type of virus that predominated in the 1990s [was more virulent]."

However, the 65-plus population grew just 12% between 1990 and 2000. And if flu virus was truly more virulent over the 1990s, one would expect more deaths. But flu deaths recorded by the NCHS were on average 30% lower in the 1990s than the 1980s.

If passed, the Flu Protection Act of 2005 will revamp US flu vaccine policy. The legislation will require CDC to pay makers for vaccines unsold "through routine market mechanisms." The bill will also require CDC to conduct a "public awareness campaign" emphasising "the safety and benefit of recommended vaccines for the public good."

Yet this bill obscures the fact that CDC is already working in manufacturers' interest by conducting campaigns to increase flu vaccination. At the 2004 "National Influenza Vaccine Summit," co-sponsored by CDC and the American Medical Association, Glen Nowak, associate director for communications at the NIP, spoke on using the media to boost demand for the vaccine. One step of a "Seven-Step `Recipe' for Generating Interest in, and Demand for, Flu (or any other) Vaccination" occurs when "medical experts and public health authorities publicly...state concern and alarm (and predict dire outcomes)—and urge influenza vaccination" (www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/36/ ... _nowak.pdf). Another step entails "continued reports...that influenza is causing severe illness and/or affecting lots of people, helping foster the perception that many people are susceptible to a bad case of influenza."


Preceding the summit, demand had been low early into the 2003 flu season. "At that point, the manufacturers were telling us that they weren't receiving a lot of orders for vaccine for use in November or even December," recalled Dr Nowak on National Public Radio. "It really did look like we needed to do something to encourage people to get a flu shot."

If flu is in fact not a major cause of death, this public relations approach is surely exaggerated. Moreover, by arbitrarily linking flu with pneumonia, current data are statistically biased. Until corrected and until unbiased statistics are developed, the chances for sound discussion and public health policy are limited.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Peter Doshi, graduate student

Harvard University [email protected]


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18 May 2008, 8:35 am

LeKiwi wrote:
Beau, mercury accumulates in ALL our bodies; it's bioaccumulative. The body can get rid of tiny amounts of it, but if you add it up and add it up it becomes a toxic overload.


Methylmercury does, yes.

But thimerosal doesn't contain methylmercury.


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18 May 2008, 8:55 am

LoveableNerd wrote:
Did you not read the article by the original poster? Here, I'll quote the pertinent part:

Swerty wrote:
Alex's father, Jim Donnelly, says it only confirms what he's believed all along: most kids aren't harmed by mercury in vaccines; they shed it naturally, but some retain it, and it poisons their brains.

Says Donnelly, "When (Alex's) testing came back, he had mercury levels that were 20 times the EPA safety margin residing in his body. It was unbelievable."


We already saw in a previous article posted here accounts of snake-oil chelation proponents administering those tests improperly. Really, that video posted largely consisted of the two of them stating their unshakable belief that vaccines cause autism and their faith that someday actual evidence to support those claims would appear. Not exactly convincing, as they aren't willing to accept any evidence contrary to their claims (that would just be more evidence of a government cover-up :roll:). When their views can't be falsified, they could hardly be considered scientific.


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18 May 2008, 8:58 am

Please remember nobody's claiming ALL autism is caused by vaccines (I know this well enough, mine certainly wasn't and it's prolific in my family!!).

Beau, just PMed you dude. :)


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18 May 2008, 9:05 am

LeKiwi wrote:
Please remember nobody's claiming ALL autism is caused by vaccines (I know this well enough, mine certainly wasn't and it's prolific in my family!!).

The two men in that video certainly seemed to do so ("Autism was unknown until 1989"-what a load of bull, it was described in the 1940s). Some people are just unable to accept the honest, scientific answer "We don't know." That uncertainty can be discomforting for people. But it's the truth. Unlike these charlatans who claim that they DO know, and say so with such conviction that some people are bound to believe them.


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18 May 2008, 11:18 am

Not a fluke shot topic

I have had the flu shot every October since 1994 and have not had one of those bad flus since, and I will tell you, I suffered nasty from it. 8O :x


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18 May 2008, 11:27 am

But how do you know you'd have had the flu without it?

You can't prove efficacy without knowing for sure that you'd have had the disease without the shot...


[I keep meaning to say I love your post headings by the way! :mrgreen: ]


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18 May 2008, 11:30 am

Every time this topic comes up, this point seems lost: Brain damage due to ethyl mercury is not particularly similar to autism. Look up a clinical description of it, and it's quite apparent. A lot of "similarities" fall apart upon closer examination. For example, people with mercury poisoning often have trouble with motor tasks. This is NOT like dyspraxia which autistics often have, however. The stims and repetitive behaviors associated with autism would often be impossible for someone with mercury-caused brain damage. Those kinds of quick motor motions can be impossible for someone in this situation. The idea of "similarity" between the two conditions is the result of misunderstanding.