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Should these refugees
Go back home and either face death at the hands of political militia or very possibly starve to death. 27%  27%  [ 3 ]
Stay in south africa and face brutality from angry locals. 73%  73%  [ 8 ]
Total votes : 11

RecoveryBoy
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17 May 2008, 6:29 am

Anyone got any views or insights into the situation in zim. Here in south africa the locals(mainly of zulu origin) are attacking, killing and chasing zimbabwean political and economical refugees. Accusing them of taking jobs from the people and contributing towards crime in SA. Whats your take?



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17 May 2008, 6:50 am

Yeah I've seen some news on tv about that.

Isn't Robert Mugarbwe trying to rig the election?

I think SA should take them in as refugees, then maybe get rid of the regime.


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17 May 2008, 7:31 am

Could they try Botswana or Mozambique, maybe?



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17 May 2008, 8:45 am

Letsgethigh wrote:
Anyone got any views or insights into the situation in zim.

Yes. The natives are clearly incapable of governing themselves. The same could be said for most of that famine-ridden war-ravaged continent. What happened to Ian Smith?



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17 May 2008, 9:43 am

Ironic how South Africans have xenofobia towards the rest of the continent, after the other African countries took so many exiles in during apartheid.

Zimbabweans will not go back to Zim because the systems there are already corrupt, it would take decades to change the corrupt mindsets.


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17 May 2008, 11:53 am

Ironically enough, it is South Africa's government that is propping up Mugabe; if the neighbours banned the transport of military supplies across their territory and airspace, the regime would fall; surely the generals, while they've shown their willingness to engage in genocide (Matabeleland), would hardly wage war against their people for Mugabe if they can't arm and supply themselves. Even if they would, junior officers would surely, given the choice between their own survival and that of their superiors, would choose that of themselves.
The ones that have behaved most honourably in this tragedy have been South African truckers and dock workers, who refused to transport Chinese arms for the regime (more effective at putting pressure on the regime than British grandstanding - as an aside, is selling arms to Mugabe worse than arming a fundamentalist absolute monarchy out of the Dark Ages like Saudi Arabia, as the West does?).


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17 May 2008, 2:53 pm

MR_BOGAN wrote:
Yeah I've seen some news on tv about that.

Isn't Robert Mugarbwe trying to rig the election?

I think SA should take them in as refugees, then maybe get rid of the regime.

A bit of an oversimplification. Mugabe and Tsvangiri both have attempted to rig the election. Tsvangiri won, but not by 50%, so they need to have a run-off. Tsvangiri would be expected to win a run-off, especially since the Mutambara and Tsvangiri factions of MDC have reunited and Makomi is supporting Tsvangiri, making for close to an MDC super-majority. Also, Mugabe was dealt a huge blow by losing the election, and his actions afterwards have also engendered more dislike of him.

It's never as simple as "get rid of the regime." The US has tried that several times, each of which has been a disastrous failure. Mugabe was able to gain power because he was instrumental in ending British colonialism. If Britain is seen trying to interfere in the Zimbabwe's electoral process (ESPECIALLY against Mugabe) that could unite more public support for ZANU-PF and Mugabe as nationalist and anti-foreigner sentiments rise. I think the best chance at a resolution would be UN peacekeepers to prevent violence and intimidation, and an internationally monitored run-off election.


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17 May 2008, 6:24 pm

Orwell wrote:
MR_BOGAN wrote:
Yeah I've seen some news on tv about that.

Isn't Robert Mugarbwe trying to rig the election?

I think SA should take them in as refugees, then maybe get rid of the regime.

A bit of an oversimplification. Mugabe and Tsvangiri both have attempted to rig the election. Tsvangiri won, but not by 50%, so they need to have a run-off. Tsvangiri would be expected to win a run-off, especially since the Mutambara and Tsvangiri factions of MDC have reunited and Makomi is supporting Tsvangiri, making for close to an MDC super-majority. Also, Mugabe was dealt a huge blow by losing the election, and his actions afterwards have also engendered more dislike of him.

It's never as simple as "get rid of the regime." The US has tried that several times, each of which has been a disastrous failure. Mugabe was able to gain power because he was instrumental in ending British colonialism. If Britain is seen trying to interfere in the Zimbabwe's electoral process (ESPECIALLY against Mugabe) that could unite more public support for ZANU-PF and Mugabe as nationalist and anti-foreigner sentiments rise. I think the best chance at a resolution would be UN peacekeepers to prevent violence and intimidation, and an internationally monitored run-off election.


Where did you hear that Tsvangiri tried to rig the election?

No I think it has got to the stage where they need to get rid of Mugabe, he is a corrupt dictator now and Zimbawes is basically being stuffed.


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17 May 2008, 6:25 pm

Ah, Sub-Saharan politics.



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17 May 2008, 6:41 pm

MR_BOGAN wrote:
Where did you hear that Tsvangiri tried to rig the election?

No I think it has got to the stage where they need to get rid of Mugabe, he is a corrupt dictator now and Zimbawes is basically being stuffed.

MDC tried to claim victory when independent observers said that Tsvangiri got less than the 50% needed. He then started to throw around a bunch of accusations and threatening to refuse to participate in a run-off. Mugabe certainly is corrupt, and I would be glad to see him go, but there needs to be an election to get rid of him if you want to avoid plunging Zimbabwe into anarchy.


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17 May 2008, 7:42 pm

Mugabe will never let go of power peacefully. He's sending out his ZANU-PF thugs to intimidate the voters into voting for him in the run-off election. Mugabe is the most dangerous kind of tyrant, he's an ideologue that actually believes the paranoid anti-West rhetoric he spews.


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17 May 2008, 8:08 pm

Letsgethigh wrote:
Anyone got any views or insights into the situation in zim. Here in south africa the locals(mainly of zulu origin) are attacking, killing and chasing zimbabwean political and economical refugees. Accusing them of taking jobs from the people and contributing towards crime in SA. Whats your take?


I agree with the Zulus
kick them out or kill them

If the Zimbabwean refugees are too weak
or cowardly to make the necessary changes
in their own country, what gives them the
right to take advantage of another?



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17 May 2008, 8:29 pm

Fred2670 wrote:
Letsgethigh wrote:
Anyone got any views or insights into the situation in zim. Here in south africa the locals(mainly of zulu origin) are attacking, killing and chasing zimbabwean political and economical refugees. Accusing them of taking jobs from the people and contributing towards crime in SA. Whats your take?


I agree with the Zulus
kick them out or kill them

If the Zimbabwean refugees are too weak
or cowardly to make the necessary changes
in their own country, what gives them the
right to take advantage of another?

Whoa. You are one screwed up kid. OK, I'll explain this in terms of your twisted world-view: ZANU-PF (Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe's party) is more or less what you imagine the Republicans to be, whereas the MDC is what you believe Democrats are. MDC supporters are being intimidated and beaten by ZANU-PF militia. They are trying to avoid getting killed by fleeing to South Africa. And as was mentioned earlier in the thread, SA somewhat "owes" the rest of the continent for taking in its refugees during apartheid.


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17 May 2008, 9:03 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbNi7iQ6fGU&feature=related[/youtube]


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18 May 2008, 1:55 am

Orwell wrote:
Whoa. You are one screwed up kid. OK, I'll explain this in terms of your twisted world-view: ZANU-PF (Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe's party) is more or less what you imagine the Republicans to be, whereas the MDC is what you believe Democrats are. MDC supporters are being intimidated and beaten by ZANU-PF militia. They are trying to avoid getting killed by fleeing to South Africa. And as was mentioned earlier in the thread, SA somewhat "owes" the rest of the continent for taking in its refugees during apartheid.


Yeah ok whatever..
I will take your personal insults with a grain of salt this time. Come at me again with more "names" and I unchain the dog.

Nobody "owes" anyone anything. Unwelcome refugees (or invaders) from another country deserve nothing more than the business end of a firearm. They show up for a single reason and that is to take what you have. When the time comes you stand up like a man and defend your way of life or you suffer the consequences. Either love your country enough to fight for it, or dig a hole and rest in peace.

nough said


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18 May 2008, 5:26 am

it's good to hold such opinions from your relatively safe affluent position, fred. it would be interesting to see how you would hold up under such consitions.


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