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skafather84
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04 Jun 2008, 5:40 pm

if you're right, then the people who oppose you are going to hell. if you're wrong, you won't know the difference anyways.

i'll elaborate more on that in a bit...but i mean way more than just those two sentences.

think along the lines of "what's the point in getting offended if someone breaks your arbitrary set of rules?"


that's with the drawing of muhammed and christians getting pissed off about gay marriage in mind.



Sand
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04 Jun 2008, 10:17 pm

It's not a matter of abstract philosophy. Religious people are scared of dying, of returning to the absolute unknowingness of the state before they were born. When you try to convince them of the total silliness of most religions you are asking them to face inevitable death square on. It's obvious they don't want to. Logic doesn't do the trick and naturally people get angry if you take security away from them.



The_Chosen_One
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05 Jun 2008, 12:03 am

If everyone did look death square in the face, what would they do?

Pagans would accept it and move on to the next life, awaiting what karma has in store.

Buddhists would possibly have the same thing happen to them, for they believe in reincarnation too.

Hindus would take that one more step toward Nirvana.

Muslims would be granted their wish if Allah deems them worthy, or they will be punished for whatever wrong they have done.

Christians though don't know the finality and therefore don't know where they will end up, which is what scares them. They believe that if they are saved, they will join with their god, but if they aren't they will go to Hell.

Nobody can tell for sure what is going to happen once we die, but our current physical form as we know it will cease to function. If the re is a soul (which the majority of faiths believe), then the life that it leaves is only a speck in eternity, and eternity being forever, is A VERY LONG TIME.

Everyone MUST face death sooner or later, and I think we'd all prefer to go when our time has come and not at the hand of others.


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skafather84
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05 Jun 2008, 12:11 am

The_Chosen_One wrote:
If everyone did look death square in the face, what would they do?



i'd probably giggle a bit. i'm morbidly curious like that. it'd be the ultimate answer in some ways.


i dunno...doesn't scare me. i'm not a fan of pain and so i wouldn't appreciate that aspect but death doesn't exactly intimidate me in itself. not to say that i have no will to live but rather...it's just there. it's coming up eventually and for the time being, there's nothing to be done about it.



Kalister1
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05 Jun 2008, 12:43 am

The_Chosen_One wrote:
If everyone did look death square in the face, what would they do?



Get drunk. Like a man going before a firing squad, I want a last drink. In my case, make it ten last drinks though.



The_Chosen_One
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05 Jun 2008, 2:50 am

A Yard of Ale, perhaps?


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ThatRedHairedGrrl
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05 Jun 2008, 1:24 pm

The_Chosen_One wrote:
If everyone did look death square in the face, what would they do?


I believe challenging it to a game of chess is traditional.


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slowmutant
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05 Jun 2008, 1:29 pm

skafather84 wrote:
if you're right, then the people who oppose you are going to hell. if you're wrong, you won't know the difference anyways.

i'll elaborate more on that in a bit...but i mean way more than just those two sentences.

think along the lines of "what's the point in getting offended if someone breaks your arbitrary set of rules?"


that's with the drawing of muhammed and christians getting pissed off about gay marriage in mind.


Religious laws are not arbitrary if you are a religious person. Only to an atheist are these laws meanignless.



Ragtime
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05 Jun 2008, 1:32 pm

slowmutant wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
if you're right, then the people who oppose you are going to hell. if you're wrong, you won't know the difference anyways.

i'll elaborate more on that in a bit...but i mean way more than just those two sentences.

think along the lines of "what's the point in getting offended if someone breaks your arbitrary set of rules?"


that's with the drawing of muhammed and christians getting pissed off about gay marriage in mind.


Religious laws are not arbitrary if you are a religious person. Only to an atheist are these laws meaningless.


Similarly, atheistic pontifications on morals are of little true interest to me as a Christian, for I believe morals were authored by God.


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05 Jun 2008, 1:32 pm

ThatRedHairedGrrl wrote:
The_Chosen_One wrote:
If everyone did look death square in the face, what would they do?


I believe challenging it to a game of chess is traditional.

That could be fun, though I think I would prefer a very long extended match. Ten thousand games or so should be sufficient.


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slowmutant
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05 Jun 2008, 1:43 pm

Sand wrote:
It's not a matter of abstract philosophy. Religious people are scared of dying, of returning to the absolute unknowingness of the state before they were born. When you try to convince them of the total silliness of most religions you are asking them to face inevitable death square on. It's obvious they don't want to. Logic doesn't do the trick and naturally people get angry if you take security away from them.


It's not death we fear, but rather an eternal seperation from God. Are atheists afraid of living?



Sand
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05 Jun 2008, 1:46 pm

I cannot speak for other atheists but I am not afraid of living. I enjoy it immensely.



Griff
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05 Jun 2008, 3:31 pm

Quoth the gryphon: "Umm...I have no intention of dying. Ever."

Quoth the Christian: "Oh, is that so?" The man gives the gryphon the cocky smile of someone who thinks he knows better. "Well, I regret to inform you that not one of us can escape death. You will not live forever, and you will have to deal with it one day."

Gryphon: "Pardon me, sir, but you fail to understand. I can forgive you, since you seem to be feeble of mind, but do listen this time. What I told you was that I have no intention of ever ceasing to live. I realize the improbability of immortality, but daily triumphs are more kind to my spirit than a gradual defeat."

Christian: The Christian smiles nastily, thinking he has the gryphon now "Ah, but you have admitted that immortality is improbable! Are you not worried about what could happen to you following your death?"

Gryphon: The gryphon eyes the man stoically "No. I would be dead then, wouldn't I?"

Christian: "Your body might be, but your spirit would still be alive!"

Gryphon: "I see you believe in such things, but I do not."

Christian: "And what if you were wrong?" The Christian salivates like a fox in pursuit of easy prey, stepping quite confidently now.

Gryphon: "Sir, you are clearly an idiot. I said that I do not believe in such things."

Christian: The Christian knows how to deal with this one, now! He closes in for the kill. "And what if you are wrong?" he challenges.

Gryphon: "I am not. This is the point of having a belief. I feel that it is correct."

Christian: "Then prove it to me!"

Gryphon: The gryphon's patience has run out by now, so he bends his neck down to engulf the arrogant fellow in his beak. There are a few muffled screams and some struggling as the man slides into the creature's craw, but asphyxia doesn't take long to set in. The gryphon may never know for sure whether the Christian was correct or mistaken, but the Christian will surely feel satisfied if he is proven correct "Ah, I'm such a people-pleaser," the gryphon thinks to himself. Thinking about what a pleasant and helpful fellow he is, the gryphon flies off in search of a satisfying dessert.

Warning: Gryphons are carnivores.



Last edited by Griff on 05 Jun 2008, 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

makuranososhi
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05 Jun 2008, 3:50 pm

Griff wrote:
Quoth the gryphon: "Umm...I have no intention of dying. Ever."

Quoth the Christian: "Oh, is that so?" The man gives the gryphon the cocky smile of someone who thinks he knows better. "Well, I regret to inform you that not one of us can escape death. You will not live forever, and you will have to deal with it one day."

Gryphon: "Pardon me, sir, but you fail to understand. I can forgive you, since you seem to be feeble of mind, but do listen this time. What I told you was that I have no intention of ever ceasing to live. I realize the improbability of immortality, but daily triumphs are more kind to my spirit than a gradual defeat."

Christian: The Christian smiles nastily, thinking he has the gryphon now "Ah, but you have admitted that immortality is improbable! Are you not worried about what could happen to you following your death?"

Gryphon: The gryphon eyes the man stoically "No. I would be dead then, wouldn't I?"

Christian: "Your body might be, but your spirit would still be alive!"

Gryphon: "I see you believe in such things, but I do not."

Christian: "And what if you were wrong?" The Christian salivates like a fox in pursuit of easy prey, stepping quite confidently now.

Gryphon: "Sir, you are clearly an idiot. I said that I do not believe in such things."

Christian: The Christian knows how to deal with this one, now! He closes in for the kill "And what if you are wrong?"

Gryphon: I am not. This is the point of having a belief. I feel that it is correct.

Christian: "Then prove it to me!"

Gryphon: The gryphon's patience has run out by now, so he bends his neck down to engulf the arrogant fellow in his beak. There are a few muffled screams and some struggling as the man slides into the creature's craw, but asphyxia doesn't take long to set in. The gryphon may never know for sure whether the Christian was correct or mistaken, but the Christian will surely feel satisfied if he is proven correct "Ah, I'm such a people-pleaser," the gryphon thinks to himself. Thinking about what a pleasant and helpful fellow he is, the gryphon flies off in search of a satisfying dessert.

Warning: Gryphons are carnivores.


Oh my... thank you for breaking this mood with laughter. It oddly reminds me of something a comedian once said, guaranteed to offend... "When it Rome, do as the Romans do... kill Christians." No reason for the memory, just there. And no, I'm not advocating death, violence, intolerance or abuse towards Christians or any other religious faith/group.


M.


PS: I had to repost in my blog elsewhere... thoroughly amused.


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Griff
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05 Jun 2008, 4:27 pm

If I were looking Death square in the face, let me be quite frank: I do this on a daily basis, and I regularly restate that my life's goal is not to become a rotting, dead corpse or a pile of ashes. I am dying right now due to the slow, lethal cancer of aging that originates at every person's birth, but I need only look in the eyes of a woman who is fighting leukemia to remember that I should not under any circumstances let go of my will to continue living, even if death is all but unavoidable. What I do when faced with death is look life itself in the face and remember that it is life to whom I have given my friendship.



Kalister1
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05 Jun 2008, 5:38 pm

Ragtime wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
if you're right, then the people who oppose you are going to hell. if you're wrong, you won't know the difference anyways.

i'll elaborate more on that in a bit...but i mean way more than just those two sentences.

think along the lines of "what's the point in getting offended if someone breaks your arbitrary set of rules?"


that's with the drawing of muhammed and christians getting pissed off about gay marriage in mind.


Religious laws are not arbitrary if you are a religious person. Only to an atheist are these laws meaningless.


Similarly, atheistic pontifications on morals are of little true interest to me as a Christian, for I believe morals were authored by God.



But the Bible was authored by human hands; there were no laws authored by God, but by humans who said it was God. The only verification to the validity of these laws is the Bible itself, making them meaningless.

Your premise is flawed.