Please help HFA or AS. Son just tested.

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I was beginning to think my son was a gifted NT and not Aspergers until today.

My son seems so high in his verbal skills. He is also extremely high in his nonverbal, spatial reasoning. He just completed a 750 Harry Potter Lego set. He can explain in detail how things work. He loves being around kids but yet often plays alone. He seems good with transitions but that is in a more 'fun' environment.

So, he has been going through testing. I watched everything. On the ADOS (autism Diagnostic Observation Scale), he had a lot of difficulty with any social events. Such as when they put a family on a pretend couch watching tv., he couldn't answer any of those questions regarding the family and went straight for the truck. He explained everything about the truck and how it works. He noticed a piece that is broken and fixed it.

When he played with a toy disk that changes colors when it turns, he said "When this metal piece touches this other metal piece when the disk going around and around, then the lights turn on." His explanation was better. That amazed me as the pieces were so small. He did have difficulty with any social questions.

He had language testing today. I was surprised at what he was not able to answer. He didn't answer a lot of categorical questions but I know he knows them. When shown a picture of a farmer and a farm and asked to point to a farmer, he pointed to a farm. That shocked me. He did that several times. He doesn't seem as comfortable with the speech therapist as he does with the psychologist who administered the ADOS. When he was shown a picture of a family at the dinner table, he was supposed to explain what was happening. He couldn't at all. Any social related questions, he stumbled. I am just surprised he stumbled at some of the other stuff. Another thing he did was when asked to point to an animal with a long thin tail, he pointed to a squirrel and not the rat. I asked about that later and the speech therapist stated that is common because of his extreme focus on detail, he missed the whole.

Then she was telling me that she feels he is more High Functioning Autistic. His nonverbal skills are way through the roof. They just didn't give him an IQ test. His verbal skills are very very high in nonstructured situations but the test showed significant difficulties in other areas I had no idea. The thing is he probably is able to answer some of the other questions correctly if it was the psychologist male giving him the questions. He has a lot of Aspergers traits and a lot of Autistic traits.

Can you have high functioning Autism yet be a genius? Then again, I don't think he would score in the genius range on the verbal portion of the WISC-IV at all based on how he performed on some similar items today. I do think he would score way high on the performance portion. This profile actually is more indicative of High Functioning Autism not Aspergers. Yet he talks a lot, non stop and loves to be around people which is more indicative of Aspergers and not HFA. So what is it?? His fine motor skills are far superior compared to the average child yet his gross motor is below average (not significantly below).

He can pass for NT in most situations or at least people will think he is just OCD like and rigid.

I find that he had more problems with language then originally thought. After the psych tested him, he was thinking aspergers. Now the speech pathologist is thinking HFA. It is driving me nuts. I still believe his father is Aspergers.

The strange thing is that my son will be watching something on tv and will say something like, "The donkey is saying, why are you making me carry all of this?" He says it with a lot of inflection. When our other son was first born and we were giving him a bath, he said, "Brian is looking at you as though you are saying, 'What are you doing to me?'" It was so darn adorable.
I mentioned that to the speech therapist and she stated that he must have heard it from somewhere, almost as if he completely lacks the empathy ability. When he does things like that, I feel he is actually higher than most kids his age. Isn't that a high skill??

Our follow up appt is August 8th. My son is smart. Many people are telling me to put him in things to build his weaknesses. I will put him in social skills classes at this place once a week but I am going to let him go with his strengths. He is so gifted in that area. The other day he was playing with a play circuit machine and has it all figured out. He loves it.

We are getting him some Knex and a erector set for his birthday along with some other stuff he can build. That is what he loves to do!

I am a bit upset right now. I really thought that he was higher in language than he is. He can fake it pretty well. His spontaneous speech is so far up there. He would definitely show a huge discrepancy between his verbal and performance on an IQ test favoring performance (spatial reasoning/nonverbal).

I honestly thought that he was perhaps just gifted and not AS or HFA. I guess the denial has come to an end. I used to go back and forth thinking he is, then he is not. Once I get that report, I will just let it sink in and go full force in developing his strengths. He far surpasses me in nonverbal intelligence. He is a funny kid. I love him.

They have already told me that he doesn't seem to understand cause and effect and also doesn't have good problem solving skills. Perhaps not verbally, but nonverbally he can kick all of their butts. They didn't test his nonverbal reasoning skills.

I guess I agree with the dx but am a bit upset about the whole "Has not a lot of problem solving skills" as though nonverbal problem solving reasoning skills do not exist.

It is really different being on the parent end of things and not the psychiatrist end.

I always assumed that individuals with Aspergers were higher in intelligence than HFA. Am I wrong??

My son also has no stemming behaviors and is really not a behavior problem. He is starting to stutter due to increased anxiety.

Sorry, I am just a little depressed right now because I really thought he would just Ace the verbal language portion. I didn't think he had that many gaps. I realize that we have a lot of work cut out for us. I am sad for him and want to do my best to make sure his self esteem remains high! I hope I can succeed.

In both HFA and AS the person's IQ is average or above, so a person can have HFA and be a genius.

People with AS are not more intelligent than people with HFA. Actually, Tony Attwood is challenging the idea that AS and HFA are different.

Some of us have OCD and quite a few of us who don't are mistaken for having OCD.

As for assigning feelings to faces, my contention is that autistics do have empathy but express it in a way the testers haven't allowed for, yet. They need different tools. You can't observe the Moon as well with a can of Raid as you can with a telescope.

If he doesn't have many problem solving skills, how did he figure out how all that stuff works? Go with your gut on that one.

Social skills classes are a great idea. I like how you're already making plans to run with what he has instead of lamenting what he doesn't. That shows guts. With you on his side, he'll be fine.

Thank you!


I love your analogy of how you can't examine the moon with a can of raid and a telescope. Good one!!

Yes, no kidding on the problem solving skills. I hate that I don't speak up. I am a school psychologist and I am letting a speech therapist dictate problem solving skills? When she explains problem solving skills, I should speak up and say VERBAL problem solving skills - at least the ability to use language to solve the problem at hand.

I just don't speak up because I am taking it all in.

I feel so GUILTY! He was administered two tests last week and one today. He has cried himself to sleep both times but can't tell me what's wrong. I know it's because he hears people talking. The psychologist brought me into the same room with him while he told me what he thought. Nate picks up on everything. I do like the psych in every other way but that. He cried tonight as well. I asked him if he overheard me talking and if that mad him sad. He responded, "Yes." He said "The word you said." I asked him, "What word." He said, "What word?" I said, "Do you mean Aspergers or Autism?" He sniffled and said, "Yeah." Oh my. What the heck have I done. I feel like hell right now.

Then I explained to him that he has a gift. He has the same gift that daddy has that makes him smart. He knows he can do mechanical stuff a lot better than me. I then told him that a part of his being smart in that way makes it a little hard to play with other people. I told him again that he is smart and not to worry.

I need to shut my trap...always. Even if I think he is out of earshot, he is usually not. He has supersonic hearing and can hear stuff from what seems like a mile away.

He goes to summer camp as well. I asked him if he has friends and he nodded. I asked him if he has fun and he nodded. I asked him if he feels lonely and he nodded and looked more sad. Whenever I pick him up, he is playing alone. I have heard him ask other kids if they want to play with him but they don't. He usually wants to put stuff together or play a game and they don't. I am so sad that he has to deal with this already. He doesn't have the language skills yet to tell me why he feels sad and that makes it even more frustrating. He has great spontaneous language skills when it is what he is interested in.

Curious NTs trying to understand genius genes and making the poor kid anxious. With you behind him he'll be fine.

lol

That's great! Thank you

This may sound like a overused statement, but I must point out that a diagnosis just describes somebody. It does not define them.

Whether your son is labeled as HFA, AS, eccentric, or whatever does not change who he is. Every person has their own gifts and difficulties. No matter what your sons label is, what is important is that you help him where he needs help, and encourage his strengths. Your son may have different strengths and weaknesses then what the official report says, but does it really matter? All my life I have been labeled as just odd or weird instead of AS, yet that mislabeling did not change who I was, or am.

Have faith in your son. He undoubtedly will have problems in his life, just like everybody else. Just because he is sad doesn't mean that your a bad parent. Being sad at times is just a part of life. Just be patient, and supporting with him and he will turn out well, no matter what the psychologist says.

When it all is said and done, HFA is Autism with ONE floor(intelligence). AS is SUPPOSED to be HFA with other floors (advanced and early verbal abilities, and at least decent self help skills), and a common weakness of lack of social skills. EITHER could be a genius.

Your child sounds a bit like I was, and still am to a degree. My mother and father STILL call me with questions. ALL SORTS of questions (mechanical, nutritional, computers, etc....).

There HAVE been times I have said some dumb things, but examine HOW he was asked about things like the farmer. I doubt he is that bad. In some ways he DOES sound AS. I would think an AS person would be more likely to concentrate on the reasons things work, etc... Although an IQ favoring "performance", IS an HFA symptom. AS people are apparently the other way.

BTW I thought I was NT up until a few years ago, although I ALWAYS knew I was a bit "off". That's another thing. AS people are probably more likely to SEEM somewhat normal.

My son can easily pass for NT most of the time and he has good self help skills as long as he has his level system.

It's cute:

Level One: Fish Oil
Level Two: Vitamin
Level Three: Go Pee
Level Four: Brush Teeth
Level Five: Wash Face
Level Six: Nighttime Diap (still isn't night potty trained - one heavy sleeper)
Level Seven: Pick out two books to read
Level Eight: Go to bed

This isn't counting the bathtime routine. So his self help skills are very good. He is also incredibly organized. Oh my.

Thank you. I need to remember that we need to focus not on the disability but on HIM. The thing with this testing is that they didn't even give him a fair test that measured his strengths. I would have liked to have seen at least the nonverbal section of the IQ test qiven to show his strengths. I give IQ tests but to give it to my son is not ethical and I refuse to do that because he is not defined by the score anyways. We know his strengths or in building, fixing and all mechanical stuff. Perhaps they will write his strengths in the report. I would be surprised if they don't.

We know he will be very excited on his birthday when he gets all the stuff some of you have suggested (thanks by the way!).

I am pretty certain that the psych will say he is Aspergers. I don't know why by the label HFA bothers me somewhat. I guess it's because I have read that people with Aspergers but have a lot of difficulty and people that have HFA would rather be left alone. MY son desperately wants to socialize. Perhaps that is a myth and an overgeneralization as well. His verbal skills were not early or advanced, though although they seem good now in conversation. His vocab is very high. Oh well. dx doesn't really matter does it???

2ukenkerl, you have really helped me with my son through my posts. I thank you. My son did pick up on me talking a little and I didn't even know he could hear. It effected him deeply. I have never ever seen him act that way, ever, as he did after the testing. This just confirms all the more that I have to be so very careful.

There are quite a few autistic people who would love to be social. Unfortunately we don't have the instincts for social

So, some of the literature is largely misleading. A lot of what I read states that people with Autism prefer to be alone and people with Aspergers prefer to socialize but don't know how. It seems that the desire for socialization can be true for both.

Thus a possible other myth, huh?

I think our world is still struggling to figure out what all of it is.

The difference between AS and HFA varies by who you talk to. In the end, it's meaningless. When push comes to shove, my son has the most in common with those of the high end of the autistic spectrum, whatever their diagnosis. It's a spectrum, and it is full of individuals who are all very different from each other. With one main thing in common, to my personal observation: there is not a lot of average. With most skills, you'll find either brilliance, or weakness. Which skills fall where varies by person.

The main goal is channeling your child's education so that the brilliances can take hold and shine, and the weaknesses are buffered. Diagnosis is meaningless unless it can help you with that. Social skills groups are great; they have been a huge help to my son. And being qualified for an IEP has been great; we can hash out accomodations as needed so that my son can continue to move forward with his education despite some huge weaknesses.

A diagnosis is only worth what it can get you. No more, no less. It doesn't have to be right if what it gets you is right. That is how I focus. Terms are meaningless; I want to know that my son is getting what he needs to move forward and succeed in life the way he wants to. If I need a label to do that, so be it. If I don't, even better.

Btw, speech is a funny area. I would never have said that my very vocal and expressive child with a very large vocabulary could use some speech help. Until I learned about the concept of pragmatic speech. Obviously that was an issue he had. Since he was my first child, I had no idea all kids weren't like that, just prattling on and on whether or not their audience was listening or interested. Learning pragmatic speech skills has been very useful for my son, and helps him engage socially. Turns out the other kids just didn't know what to do with him, he talked too much about things they weren't interested in, and wouldn't shift out no matter what they said or did.

I wish you the best of luck. Being on the spectrum is a gift and a burden. You are right to focus on the gift. It will be amazing for your child, just as it is for mine.

Thanks! You just described my child as well. During the whole speech testing, I didn't realize how low my son was in certain areas related to pragmatics. I actually started to bawl because he seems so high as he talks nonstop as well. His vocabulary is pretty high. He just sounds like your son.

It is true. The dx helps to get the services our children need.

"The main goal is channeling your child's education so that the brilliances can take hold and shine, and the weaknesses are buffered. Diagnosis is meaningless unless it can help you with that".

I love how you said that!!

I bet our children are a lot alike.

You are on the road to helping your child shine, to be the best "he" he can be. As difficult as the label was for me to swallow, it was also like finding a set of keys. You would be amazed at how much my son has grown in the last few years. His weaknesses will always be his weaknesses, but so much goes "right" for him that those weaknesses have become easier to deal with.

My son (now 11) is away this week at overnight boy scout camp. Can you believe that? Overnight camp ... for a week ... lol, OK, I am STILL totally nervous about it, like what happens if he gets stressed, will anyone know how to handle him? But one of the adults with the troop emailed me yesterday to let me know that he was doing GREAT. Approaching everything with drive and enthusiasm. And he convinced all the kids his age to go with the geology merit badge class, lol. Yep, he's picked up a few sales skills along the way. A very useful tool for a child who always prefers things his way.

I'm glad to hear it!

Yep, that is completely the way I envision my child to be!! ! Your son sounds so cute!