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monty
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19 Aug 2008, 12:50 pm

This human study correlated MSG intake with obesity, and that relationship held true when controlling for calorie intake and activity levels.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18497735

Animal studies on MSG show consistent patterns of weight gain, increased blood pressure, changes in the balance between the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems. Feeding animals MSG is becoming one standard model for studying obesity.

"The present study for the first time demonstrates, that a widely used nutritional monosubstance--the flavouring agent MSG--at concentrations that only slightly surpass those found in everyday human food, exhibits significant potential for damaging the hypothalamic regulation of appetite..." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16132059

MSG as a teratogen: near complete destruction of the arcuate nucleus of the hypothalamus in the offspring of pregnant rats given high doses of MSG.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16463577



Orwell
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19 Aug 2008, 8:11 pm

michel wrote:
matsuiny2004 wrote:
I read recently that eating instant ramen and other forms of instant noodles (not frozen or refrigerated) are bad for you. It can create toxins in your brain causing brain death :(

As a nutritionist, I can assure you that there is absolutely no nutritional value to ramen noodles, apart from empty calories which do provide some form of energy. You can understand that crap with artificial flavors would contain toxic chemicals that add up over time. Very young people can sort of get away with it, but the minute you hit 22 or 25, time to change eating habits!

Is there anything especially wrong with empty calories? I mean, unless you are consuming more calories than is healthy.


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20 Aug 2008, 12:04 am

Foods highest in Glutamic acid:
15 Cheese, cottage, lowfat, 1% milkfat Glutamic acid: 7455mg
19 Turkey, fryer-roasters, breast, meat only, cooked, roasted Glutamic acid: 7269mg
24 Crustaceans, shrimp, mixed species, cooked, moist heat Glutamic acid: 7206mg
25 Crustaceans, lobster, northern, cooked, moist heat Glutamic acid: 7134mg
50 Seeds, sesame flour, low-fat Glutamic acid: 6714mg
58 Seaweed, spirulina, raw Glutamic acid: 6648mg
66 Fish, tuna, light, canned in water, without salt, drained solids Glutamic acid: 6565mg
90 Egg, white, raw, fresh Glutamic acid: 6458mg
97 Fish, tuna, skipjack, fresh, cooked, dry heat Glutamic acid: 6380mg
102 Cheese, low fat, cheddar or colby Glutamic acid: 6335mg
...
all numbers are based on only 200 Calories worth of the food. and the list goes on and on and on...
http://www.nutritiondata.com/foods-0000 ... 000-1.html
how much total matter is there in a packet of ramen seasoning, or in the flavor powder of a cup-o-noodles? i'm thinking less than 6 grams, just based on my knowledge of what 1 gram of many powders looks like.

and that's all i have to say about that. i'll leave this thread to the rabid anti-scientists, who are no better than the people who hate splenda because there's a Cl in the chemical formula for it, claiming that that's like eating bleach, while ignoring that table salt has way more Cl in it than splenda.


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monty
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20 Aug 2008, 8:10 am

adverb wrote:

and that's all i have to say about that. i'll leave this thread to the rabid anti-scientists, who are no better than the people who hate splenda because there's a Cl in the chemical formula for it, claiming that that's like eating bleach, while ignoring that table salt has way more Cl in it than splenda.



Glutamic acid in a protein is released rather slowly on digestion compared to a broth containing a high concentration of pure glutamate. It's like the difference between Inca's that chew coca leaf and the party crowd that snort or freebase concentrated cocaine. Inca's rarely drop dead from heart attacks in their 20s and 30s, while that is quite common among people that ingest sudden large doses of cocaine. If you were a real scientist, you would understand such response phenomena.

There may be some in the population that compare Splenda to bleach, which is not a suitable metaphor. Splenda is a chlorocarbon which contains a chlorine covalently bound to a carbon atom - that is very different from bleach, and very different from the ionic chloride in salt that you compare it to. (You are really no better than them when it comes to chemistry, Adverb. You point out that they are not chemically correct, when you yourself are not. Such a poser!) Adding significant amounts of chlorocarbons to the diet should raise some serious flags. Sucralose may ultimately prove to be relatively benign, but it has been released on the public with a minimum of testing.


Here's some real science, Adverb:


Quote:
Mutat Res. 2002 Aug 26;519(1-2):103-19.
The comet assay with 8 mouse organs: results with 39 currently used food additives.
Sasaki YF, Kawaguchi S, Kamaya A, Ohshita M, Kabasawa K, Iwama K, Taniguchi K, Tsuda S.

Laboratory of Genotoxicity, Faculty of Chemical and Biological Engineering, Hachinohe National College of Technology, Tamonoki Uwanotai 16-1, Aomori 039-1192, Japan.

We determined the genotoxicity of 39 chemicals currently in use as food additives. They fell into six categories-dyes, color fixatives and preservatives, preservatives, antioxidants, fungicides, and sweeteners. We tested groups of four male ddY mice once orally with each additive at up to 0.5xLD(50) or the limit dose (2000mg/kg) and performed the comet assay on the glandular stomach, colon, liver, kidney, urinary bladder, lung, brain, and bone marrow 3 and 24h after treatment. Of all the additives, dyes were the most genotoxic. Amaranth, Allura Red, New Coccine, Tartrazine, Erythrosine, Phloxine, and Rose Bengal induced dose-related DNA damage in the glandular stomach, colon, and/or urinary bladder. All seven dyes induced DNA damage in the gastrointestinal organs at a low dose (10 or 100mg/kg). Among them, Amaranth, Allura Red, New Coccine, and Tartrazine induced DNA damage in the colon at close to the acceptable daily intakes (ADIs). Two antioxidants (butylated hydroxyanisole (BHA) and butylated hydroxytoluene (BHT)), three fungicides (biphenyl, sodium o-phenylphenol, and thiabendazole), and four sweeteners (sodium cyclamate, saccharin, sodium saccharin, and sucralose) also induced DNA damage in gastrointestinal organs. Based on these results, we believe that more extensive assessment of food additives in current use is warranted.



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20 Aug 2008, 9:46 am

monty wrote:
Glutamic acid in a protein is released rather slowly on digestion compared to a broth containing a high concentration of pure glutamate. It's like the difference between Inca's that chew coca leaf and the party crowd that snort or freebase concentrated cocaine.


k, seriously this time, i'm not even looking at this thread again because it hurts my brain. sorry if i offended you before by calling you out on your silliness, but i can't ignore this-

glutamic acid = glutamate. not like coca leaves = cocaine, like 1=1. same thing. interchangeable words. whether you consume it in a soup or not in a soup doesn't enter into the equation.

"C00025 KegDraw Jmol
L-Glutamate; L-Glutamic acid; L-Glutaminic acid
C00217 KegDraw Jmol
D-Glutamate; D-Glutamic acid; D-Glutaminic acid; D-2-Aminoglutaric acid
C00302 KegDraw Jmol
Glutamate; Glutaminic acid; 2-Aminoglutaric acid"

(this one's pretty awesome. it has a java applet to show the molecular structure of each compound, clearly demonstrating that each of those things listed on the same line are the same thing.)
http://www.genome.jp/dbget-bin/www_bfin ... =glutamate

"Glutamic acid, also called glutamate and abbreviated as Glu or E, is one of the twenty common amino acids used by living organisms to build proteins. "
- http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Glutamic_acid

"Glutamic Acid (Glutamate)
Glutamic acid is a non-essential amino acid that the body uses to build proteins. It can be obtained from eating meat, poultry, fish, eggs, and dairy products."
- http://www.worldhealth.net/news/glutamic_acid_glutamate

"Glutamic Acid (Glutamate)
7291 relevant articles (200 outcomes, 785 trials/studies) found for this Drug
Description: A non-essential amino acid naturally occurring in the L-form. Glutamic acid is the most common excitatory neurotransmitter in the CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM.
Also Known As: Glutamate"
- http://www.curehunter.com/public/keywor ... ic-Acid.do

"Glutamic Acid
Glutamic acid, also called glutamate, is an excitatory neurotransmitter that increases the firing of neurons in the central nervous system. It is a major excitatory neurotransmitter in the brain and spinal caord. It is converted into either glutamine or Gamma-Aminobutyric Acid (GABA), two other amino acids that help pass messages to the brain.
Glutamic Acid is important in the metabolism of sugars and fats, and aids in the transportation of potassium into the spinal fluid and across blood-brain barrier."
- http://www.vitaminstuff.com/amino-acid- ... -acid.html

"Glutamate (Glutamic acid) "
- http://www.biocompare.com/matrixsc/1656 ... tamic-acid)-Decarboxylase-65).html

k have fun in here, burn a witch for me, bye


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20 Aug 2008, 5:49 pm

Adverb, you need to do some real research. That means independent, and not funded by the people who are trying to sell their products.

You've got a lot of half-truths, and not alot of whole.

I would elaborate but Monty has said everything I'd have to say a lot more eloquently than I could.

Basically, it's not the chlorine in Splenda that's the problem; it's the form it takes. It isn't the glutamic acid in MSG that's the problem; it's the fact that it's isolated and 'free'.


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monty
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23 Aug 2008, 1:27 am

adverb wrote:
monty wrote:
Glutamic acid in a protein is released rather slowly on digestion compared to a broth containing a high concentration of pure glutamate. It's like the difference between Inca's that chew coca leaf and the party crowd that snort or freebase concentrated cocaine.


k, seriously this time, i'm not even looking at this thread again because it hurts my brain. sorry if i offended you before by calling you out on your silliness, but i can't ignore this-

glutamic acid = glutamate. not like coca leaves = cocaine, like 1=1. same thing. interchangeable words. whether you consume it in a soup or not in a soup doesn't enter into the equation.


No, you are wrong ... how quickly a dose enters the blood does make a difference. Eating a serving of 4 ounces of complex carbohydrate has a different effect than drinking a soft drink with 4 ounces of dissolved sugar. The rapid sugar infusion is much more likely to lead to insulin spikes, hypoglycemia, and ultimately to insulin resistance.


adverb wrote:
"Glutamic acid, also called glutamate and abbreviated as Glu or E, is one of the twenty common amino acids used by living organisms to build proteins. "
- http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Glutamic_acid



Good point - real food contains glutamic acid bound up in proteins. This results in a slower release of the free glutamic acid as the protein is digested, meaning the body is better able to metabolize it, and blood levels never get so high as they do when drinking MSG flavor packet soups. Also, real protein is loaded with other amino acids, some of which have opposite effects than glutamic acid.

Glutamic acid is both an amino acid and a neurotransmitter, and when administered in large doses in a way that humans would not naturally encounter in their diet, it is a drug.



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25 Aug 2008, 1:28 pm

Another study, soon to be published, proving MSG slows brain growth (and the researcher is just 17!)

http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/n ... 902cf5165f


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