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Ishmael
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06 Aug 2008, 8:36 am

http://www.evenbetternow.com/autism-chi ... agodfw9crQ

Sick, eh? Sorry - I keep bringing this sort of thing up, but this strikes a personal chord with me...


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slowmutant
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06 Aug 2008, 10:54 am

I wonder if this stuff really works ...



SilverPikmin
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06 Aug 2008, 11:04 am

I doubt it. The article said it removes thimerosal, the 'mercury from vaccinations', so these people probably believe in vaccines causing autism. That's time and time again been indicated to be wrong so the way I see it it has no real effect (apart from being a placebo). Then again, I'm no medical scientist.



slowmutant
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06 Aug 2008, 11:48 am

Ishmael, why does the chelation article "strike a personal chord" with you? I thought you had no emotions.



n4mwd
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06 Aug 2008, 12:31 pm

Ishmael wrote:
http://www.evenbetternow.com/autism-child-chelation-detox.asp?s=gaw5&gclid=CKa7-_Gp-ZQCFSY1agodfw9crQ

Sick, eh? Sorry - I keep bringing this sort of thing up, but this strikes a personal chord with me...


Yes, you are correct. They are making unsubstantiated claims that their process WILL improve all autistic children with parents willing to pay the price. Even if it is eventually proven that mercury does trigger autism, there is still no proof that removing it will make a person NT. Not only that, but seafood contains TONS more mercury than vacines.

I have also heard experts claim that mercury is absorbed into the tissues and cannot be chelated once it leaves the blood. So if that is true, such torture of little kids will not work even if mercury does cause autism.



n4mwd
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06 Aug 2008, 12:33 pm

Also, when it comes to aspie kids, they will improve over time no matter what you give them. Its just the nature of the disability. They learn to act a little more NT every day.



westernwild
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06 Aug 2008, 12:39 pm

slowmutant wrote:
I wonder if this stuff really works ...


No, it doesn't, and it's been proven time and time again, scientifically, that it doesn't. Parents who just can't handle any differences in their little darlings and who can't accept that autism is not possession by the devil just can't accept that. Screw them. Not only wasting their money, but possibly permanently damaging their child in the process.

My AS son's idiot father and his girlfriend (now wife) wanted to try that on him, never mind that they never saw him anyway and, when they did, all they did was yell and scream at him even though I'd told them over and over, ad nauseum, that such most certainly does NOT work with him. In fact, it only makes him worse. But did they ever listen to my counsel on how to best handle him and the behaviors that work best with him and will likely make him understand and behave at his best, or, at least, what was best possible for him under the circumstances? NO, NEVER. And they expected ME to pay for this snake oil damage, too. Screw that and screw them. He does much better when he doesn't see them.

What it gets down to are parents who not only don't want and can't accept any differences in their children, but whose sense of social "advancement" and worry over what people will think overrides any good sense as to what's really best for their children; parents who don't want to put in the hard work of learning the right behaviors to deal with and help their children. If they really cared about their children, they wouldn't put them through such a possibly damaging treatment that has no scientific basis in fact anyway.


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lau
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06 Aug 2008, 5:41 pm

The best bit is the penultimate paragraph about their "Medical Advisor", on this page:

http://www.evenbetternow.com/medical_advisor.asp

Quote:
...he discovered that heavy metals accumulate in the body...


Well blow me down. And there was I, thinking that we had known this for ages.

As to whether it is a good idea to blindly try to rip out every atom of heavier metals, on a whim from the chelationists...

=========

Oddly enough, I can't find their page dealing specifically with snake oil.


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slowmutant
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06 Aug 2008, 8:16 pm

Perhaps they're referring to their brand of snale oil as "chelation vaccine." :wink:

See? This is the trial & error method by which science attains knowledge. How many false starts and dead ends before they found a cure for malaria? You can't blame people for trying, even if their first attempts are ham-fisted and dangerous.



westernwild
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06 Aug 2008, 9:22 pm

slowmutant wrote:
Perhaps they're referring to their brand of snale oil as "chelation vaccine." :wink:

See? This is the trial & error method by which science attains knowledge. How many false starts and dead ends before they found a cure for malaria? You can't blame people for trying, even if their first attempts are ham-fisted and dangerous.


Yes, you CAN blame them for trying. AS/ASD is nothing to be ashamed of and parents need to buckle down, deal with it and learn the behaviors that will best help their children and help them in "training", for want of a better word, their children. There are plenty of ways to do that. My AS son and semi-AS hubby are not diseased or abnormal or disordered or broken or any of that other BS. I wouldn't have them any other way. In fact, in many ways, I enjoy the way their minds work and have no patience with those who would force what I call "neuroconformity" on them.


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slowmutant
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06 Aug 2008, 10:24 pm

westernwild wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
Perhaps they're referring to their brand of snale oil as "chelation vaccine." :wink:

See? This is the trial & error method by which science attains knowledge. How many false starts and dead ends before they found a cure for malaria? You can't blame people for trying, even if their first attempts are ham-fisted and dangerous.


Yes, you CAN blame them for trying. AS/ASD is nothing to be ashamed of and parents need to buckle down, deal with it and learn the behaviors that will best help their children and help them in "training", for want of a better word, their children. There are plenty of ways to do that. My AS son and semi-AS hubby are not diseased or abnormal or disordered or broken or any of that other BS. I wouldn't have them any other way. In fact, in many ways, I enjoy the way their minds work and have no patience with those who would force what I call "neuroconformity" on them.


You have no compassion for other parents? :(



Ishmael
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07 Aug 2008, 6:11 am

slowmutant; why concern yourself with compassion? My fault with this lies in it's clear falsity - I cannot abide something so anti-scientific being peddled to people already coined in with second-hand information.

Why ask for compassion for other parents? Ever spoken to these parents? Abuse of their children is too light a term. Imagine being a child of one of these people? Told daily that you aren't the child they were supposed to have; being forced into receiving treatments to "replace" your personality? Not to mention the physical dangers of this unproven treatment...
I've spoken to these "other parents" - and it's astounding the level of resentment they have towards their child for being an autistic child. They are looking for "hope", because of how they see their children, and are willing to buy into anything that offers it. Why give compassion where none will be reciprocated? What you say makes no logical sense.


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westernwild
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07 Aug 2008, 9:26 am

Ishmael wrote:
slowmutant; why concern yourself with compassion? My fault with this lies in it's clear falsity - I cannot abide something so anti-scientific being peddled to people already coined in with second-hand information.

Why ask for compassion for other parents? Ever spoken to these parents? Abuse of their children is too light a term. Imagine being a child of one of these people? Told daily that you aren't the child they were supposed to have; being forced into receiving treatments to "replace" your personality? Not to mention the physical dangers of this unproven treatment...
I've spoken to these "other parents" - and it's astounding the level of resentment they have towards their child for being an autistic child. They are looking for "hope", because of how they see their children, and are willing to buy into anything that offers it. Why give compassion where none will be reciprocated? What you say makes no logical sense.


Thank you, you said it even better than I could have. I have no patience with or compassion toward such parents at all. It really isn't all that difficult to learn to deal with your AS/ASD children the way they are if you're willing to accept them for who they are and buckle down and learn the behaviors that will work best with them instead of always trying to "change" them by pumping them full of the treatment du jour, some of them quite damaging.


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slowmutant
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07 Aug 2008, 11:08 am

Ishmael wrote:
slowmutant; why concern yourself with compassion? My fault with this lies in it's clear falsity - I cannot abide something so anti-scientific being peddled to people already coined in with second-hand information.

Why ask for compassion for other parents? Ever spoken to these parents? Abuse of their children is too light a term. Imagine being a child of one of these people? Told daily that you aren't the child they were supposed to have; being forced into receiving treatments to "replace" your personality? Not to mention the physical dangers of this unproven treatment...
I've spoken to these "other parents" - and it's astounding the level of resentment they have towards their child for being an autistic child. They are looking for "hope", because of how they see their children, and are willing to buy into anything that offers it. Why give compassion where none will be reciprocated? What you say makes no logical sense.


Everbody needs compassion. Isn't that obvious?



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07 Aug 2008, 1:02 pm

They did a damn good job of hiding this at the bottom of the page and in tiny print:

Quack Curebie Snake-Oil Site wrote:
All material provided on this site is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not meant to replace or substitute for the recommendations or advice of your physician or medical provider. Please consult a health care provider regarding the applicability of any opinion or recommendation with respect to your symptoms or medical condition. Products are offered for use in therapies that may benefit normal function and structure. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.

Shame that none of their customers will read that or heed the advice to consult a real doctor before trying such nonsense.


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westernwild
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07 Aug 2008, 2:15 pm

Orwell wrote:
They did a damn good job of hiding this at the bottom of the page and in tiny print:
Quack Curebie Snake-Oil Site wrote:
All material provided on this site is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not meant to replace or substitute for the recommendations or advice of your physician or medical provider. Please consult a health care provider regarding the applicability of any opinion or recommendation with respect to your symptoms or medical condition. Products are offered for use in therapies that may benefit normal function and structure. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.

Shame that none of their customers will read that or heed the advice to consult a real doctor before trying such nonsense.


Yes, indeed, and I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that they're at least partly bankrolled by FAAAS Fascists.


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