Theory of evolution compatible with Bible: Vatican

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Theory of evolution compatible with Bible: Vatican
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/co ... 17,00.html
Martin Penner
November 07, 2005

How stupid are the Vatican? I mean really. They want to tell the fundamentalist Catholics that they can't believe the account of the world's creation as according to Genesis, but that Darwin's theory of evolution is correct. Well strike me dead; if you can't believe the whole book is literally correct then you can't believe any of it is correct. Why are Jesus' miracles taken literally? There's no evidence that Jesus wasn't just a political puppet, or that he was the son of God. "Yeah, he can do miracles, he's the son of god, we're going to overthrow the romans!" They want you to believe that there is a God who created the universe, AND that life came about through mere chance and that we evolved from apes. They want you to believe in a theoretical science and a divine creator. The two ideas ARE mutually exclusive. Either God created man as man, or he didn't. He didn't create some pool of slime in his own image, and then wait for evolution to take effect. Why then, wouldn't every animal along that line of evolution be in his own image? Why would he love humans above all others, if they're only a couple of evolutions above, say, apes?
They interpret the bible how they want to, to make their religion be what they want. They're trying to tell people to believe the bible as the word of god, but that not all of it is. Well bloody hell, how do THEY know which bits are and which bits aren't. If the whole thing is open to interpretation, then their religion is no truer than any other interpretation. Lets choose not to believe the 5th commandment. Or the commandment against murder. Its an all or nothing situation. Or its just as laughable a religion as Scientology.

Even God does not want us see this universe as so complex as this or even so much a mystery that even we can not even understand it. Though Evolution to me is just adaptation not really evolving in the end.

Let me answer that as a liberal American Catholic: Very.

But to answer your post, the Catholic Church views the Bible more as a library than a book. Imagine your confusion if you walked into a library expecting every book to be literaly correct. Instead you find (as one does in the Bible) history, myth, poems, comics, non-fiction, romance, etc, etc, etc.




Yep. True statement with although some would disagree with the words "mere chance" and some would not.
In the Catholic view, God created the universe. Part of that was science..ie God created science. Evolution is part of the science God created. I really like how you described it :"He didn't create some pool of slime in his own image, and then wait for evolution to take effect." According to the Church, that's exactly what God did.



They don't. There is no univeral agreement. The Church allows that although there are rules for disagreeing. If one disagrees with the current official stance, one must have given it "prayerful thought" and be open to changing the stance if new data becomes available.

Anyway, Danlo, I don't normally post in these types of threads because I consider myself a poor writer and I'm afraid I will not be able to get ideas across correctly. I'm also very aware that I don't have any training in theology and therefore might be making some really stupid statements. I leave these discussions to those who have time to delve into them. If you have further comments or questions and you would like my uneducated idea that's fine but know I'll have to be slow in answering them.

BeeBee

Your 'uneducated' opinions are fine by me, BeeBee. I'm not a Catholic myself, I was brought up as a Seventh-day Adventist. The malleable state of the Catholic religion is a disturbing thing. Masses of people who will turn themselves and their spiritual beliefs towards whatever a single man, the pope, believes is the correct interpretation of the bible. The fact is they are willing and able to chop and hack, cut and paste, and twist the bible to what they want people to believe, and those faithful take the words of the pope as God's word coming from the mouth of Jesus' chosen High Priest. How can anyone believe in a religion that isn't changeless, and steadfast on important points of theology? Before Darwin, did they believe in evolution? Did they believe the Genesis account? Of course they did, they had no reason not to. And now, about a century after the introduction of the theory of evolution, they are willing to embrace it and modify their beliefs that God didn't directly create humanity. Basically, they are saying that so long as you believe there is a creator, God, then you don't need religion. In effect, the Catholic church has just named another religion, Scientology, as truth.

Thank you for your flexiblity and understanding, Danlo. You brought up some interesting points. I'm only explaining what I beleive and think. There doesn't seem to be much common ground on what we think here and that's okay. I'm not agueing, saying your point of view is incorrect, or trying to change your mind.

Many people agree with that statement. Many others thinks it changes too slowly. Remember it was only 40 years ago that we began to celebrate Mass in other than Latin.

It goes to what is an important point of theology. We beleive God made everything. That has not changed. However, like a child learns to understand rules better as he or she ages, humankind has learned to understand this better. At one time, we beleived "making all things" meant making them in their present form. As you said, we had no reason to think otherwise. As we became wiser we learned that "making all things" meant making the pool of goo and devising a way for it to evolve. So what was this point of theology--that God made all things (hasn't changed) or God made all things in their present form. I would agru, of course, that its the first.

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If I read this right its really about two points? The pope's role and the fact that we see the Bible as a library instead of a book?

We've already discussed the Bible as library. I think we will just need to agree to disagree on that.

The pope's role is more complicated. He is definately the head of the Church. Historically, he was only the first among equals. Like all good bureaucracy, however, the Vatican's power has grown over time. The Pope and his staff (the Vatican) have theologians who do nothing but ponder questions of religion. The statements of the Vatican is the results of much labor on the theologians part. These statements are to be accepted as such. It is to be assumed, as a starting point, that they should be accepted. However, Catholics are charged with following their formed conscious. That is, if a Catholic truly, prayerfully believes the statements are wrong, that Catholic must follow his or her counscious.

The Pope does indeed have the last word. If he beleives a Catholic's thought are herasy, that Catholic may be excummicated. This is a very rare thing. Another thing that non-Catholics tend to get hung up on is the Doctrine of Infallability. The Pope can invoke this to head off a schism or other emergency. It basicaly means that what the Pope says can not be questioned on this matter. This has been usedonly twice in the history of the Church (I think. I know its very, very rare).




No, the oppsoite really. I've not got a handle on how to say it but the general thought is that if you beleive in the Catholic faith, you beleive in community. You find like minded people to support and question your faith to help you grow in it. Without that outside influance, your faith is stagnet.

BeeBee