Female Aspies? a different presentation?
AmberEyes
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Joined: 26 Sep 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,438
Location: The Lands where the Jumblies live
Hope you found those points useful.
There are probably others that haven't been thought of yet.
I think that more research needs to be done.
Whoever I am, and what ever is really going on, the:
"Hi! How are you? Lovely day isn't it?"
Line is not an innate part of my repertoire. I've never actually said this. This is unusual because most "normal" women like to chatter a lot of the time. I usually wait for other people to initiate the conversation. Could my genes have something to do with this?
Whenever I address people, it's always been on practical/business terms. I have met several other girls who cannot initiate conversations confidently during my life-time.
They were shy, reserved, brilliant academically, pathologically polite/formal speaking/writing style and had issues such as depression and social anxiety.
Something's going on and I'd really like to understand the biological phenomenon that means that I and other females cannot initiate conversations easily.
There could be a lot of girls suffering in silence and that's a great shame because they're nice girls too.
It was weird because the other day I was just sitting in the dining hall and tears started running down my face and everyone assumed that I was really upset about something, but it was more just overload than anything else.
I also grew up a tomboy - liked boy stuff, hated girl stuff, loathed shopping/makeup/all that (still am behind somewhat in these areas). All my life, the vast majority of my friends have been boys, because I get along better with them because I like talking about general info etc.
Crushes on boys (generally weird ones) also can be an obsession with me, beyond the point of normal.
I have also read obsessively for most of my life, it was definitely my obsession throughout my childhood (i read before school, in between class, during class, during breaktimes, after school, most of the night, etc) though more recently I have branched out a bit into a variety of different areas.
Sounds like me!
In my humble opinion, the whole pathology of male Asperger (sorry, guys) is mythicized for men. If you take the basic mechanism for Asperger syndrome (and HFA), and from there project it onto the space of female cognitive functioning, you will find that there are many female phenotypes and archetypes that are clearly Asperger but don't fit into the mold created for the male Asperger definition (yet). That includes:
(1) Classic Witch (the weird antisocial know-it-all who lives at the edge of the village and scares all the kids)
(2) The Oracle (the seemingly simple woman who erupts in painful truths and quite accurate predictions of the things that are going to happen if you don't stop what you are doing, King of Thebes)
(3) Incubus, Succubus, Devil's Whore (The hypersensual, intense woman who attracts men but is socially defenseless. She gets arrested for accusing the Village Elder for raping her and fathering her baby that looks like him, whereupon he accuses her of being an Incubus and stealing his sperm by magic, and she gets burned at the stake with no one to stick up for her).
and so on.
Wow, I learned a lot about myself from that article.
Aspie girls tend to suffer in silence and appear shy and passive.
This is me in one sentence.
Girls with Asperger's learn to mimic what other children do. However, without role models, they cannot figure out what to do on their own. They often memorize scripts when they have to interact with others. For example, one girl keeps chanting, "No thank you, I'm just looking," every time she has to enter a store.
So true.
Most little girls play with dolls, but they use them to act out little psychodramas and fairy tales with one another.
I was more into soft toys and my Ninja Turtles.
According to Dr. Tony Attwood, a leading expert on Asperger Syndrome, Aspie boys often appear like "little professors" who are expert in one subject. However, Aspie girls are more like "little philosophers." They may wonder if all people see the same color as blue, for instance, or analyze the meaning of the word "mind." They often appear odd or cold, or seem to live in fantasy worlds. They may love animals, but in an obsessive way.
I agree with this too. I still find myself in a fantasy world. When I was younger I was obsessed with dogs too. I identified a lot with the girl on Charlotte's Web.
In elementary school, these girls often cope by finding one good friend.
Yes, but unlike the article it was actually a boy.
if she moves away, it has devastating consequences. Another way that young girls cope with their disorder is by playing with boys. Male games are rule-oriented and do not require as much social and emotional understanding as female interactions do.
He moved away at 9 and from then on I had no friends at all.
I did enjoy playing with boys more. I was more of a tom boy and yes girls did seem too emotional. I remember seeing a female classmate cry at camp and was confused.
Girls with Asperger Syndrome often develop deeper problems as teenagers. During a time in life when everyone else is obsessed with fashion and fads, Asperger teens often dress in a haphazard way, not following fashion but preferring to wear the same comfortable outfit day after day. They may not wash or use deodorant unless prompted by their families. They may still enjoy toys and games that were popular in grammar school. They may not have the organizational skills needed for high school level work.
I don't think I cared about what I wore until I was 18 or 19. I was constantly told to wear deodorant. I've always played with toys that were considered 'babyish' to my peers.
One constant worry for parents is that their teenage daughter will be the victim of a sexual predator. This is a valid worry, for Asperger girls are often naïve about sex. They misinterpret boys' signals and allow them to use them.
A definite concern my mum has, but I know when guys are being creepy...most of time. Although, I still didn't realise my last boyfriend liked me until he kissed me.
This is from an article, linked from that site:
Because social situations are stressful and awkward for girls with Asperger's, they often learn to mimic people who have stronger social skills. They may adopt someone else's mannerisms, facial expressions and even vocal intonations. Again, this is sometimes misinterpreted - especially in older children or adults - and may be misdiagnosed as a personality disorder. - http://www.yourlittleprofessor.com/girls.html
I do mimic people, even their vocal intonations.
Actually I talk just the the actor who plays Harry Potter.

I found that article to be incredibly superficial, lame and insulting. For example:
"Girls with Asperger Syndrome often develop deeper problems as teenagers. During a time in life when everyone else is obsessed with fashion and fads, Asperger teens often dress in a haphazard way, not following fashion but preferring to wear the same comfortable outfit day after day. They may not wash or use deodorant unless prompted by their families. They may still enjoy toys and games that were popular in grammar school. They may not have the organizational skills needed for high school level work. When their parents try to bring them up to speed and to help them conform to their world, many girls with Asperger's rebel from what they perceive as constant parental criticism."
And this is the litany of "deeper problems"? Not being "obsessed with fashion and fads" like normal teenaged girls? So not being obsessed with clothes and fads is disturbing? And the teenage Aspergers girls may "rebel from what they perceive as constant parental criticism"? That is really un-teenager-like. What kind of fatuous jerk off wrote this crap? The only Asperger-meaningful information in the entire paragraph is that Asperger girls might still like grammar school games and lack organization skills for the high school work. The rest is sheer speculative empty masturbation of social science blather.
"Teen girls with Asperger Syndrome often find female friendships to be very demanding and even overwhelming. They don't understand their adolescent friends' extreme emotional ups and downs - why they cry when they get a failing grade or if a boy does not call. Author Diane Kennedy quotes a "Dear John" letter written by an Aspie girl to her best friend, "Your expectations exhaust me. The phone calls, the girl talk, the whole feelings thing. It's too much for me anymore."
So teen girls with Asperger Syndrome are disturbing because they can't deal with the demanding and overwhelming emotional roller coasters that are normal teen girls' lives. Wow, they really must be sick if they can't relate to all those normal teenaged girls who kill themselves over their appearance, develop anorexia, throw themselves out of windows over boys and try to destroy pretty rivals.
Whomever wrote this had nothing meaningful to say and indeed said nothing that anyone with a superficial guess at what Asperger teen girls might be like could say.
Last edited by ephemerella on 27 Nov 2008, 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I agree.
One of the main problems I had when I hit puberty was being bored out of my mind by the shallow conversations other females have. But even now I suspect I have AS I wouldn't put that down as a symptom, more a case of maturity on my part. If these are typical aspect of teenage female (which I would have to say from my experience alot of them were, I'm glad I wasn't a typical teenager.
Who ever wrote the artical seem to believe though the stereotypical gender roles should be the norm for someone NT. In which case I feel more sorry for those that are NT but don't fit into that model.
Well, but this is true for everybody at every age. The chatter of NT's is superficial and shallow at almost every age. Men do it, too. They do "small talk" and talk about sports in predictable ways on cue, etc.
I don't think it's pathologically disturbing for an Asperger female to NOT have shallow, emotional roller coaster lives of normal teenaged females. How is being more emotionally stable and identity-grounded as a teenaged girl a "deeper problem"? The only basis for that notion is a view that any way in which a female Aspie teen is different from the norm is a pathological problem. I.e. "different" is implicitly "sick".
(1) Classic Witch (the weird antisocial know-it-all who lives at the edge of the village and scares all the kids)
(2) The Oracle (the seemingly simple woman who erupts in painful truths and quite accurate predictions of the things that are going to happen if you don't stop what you are doing, King of Thebes)
(3) Incubus, Succubus, Devil's Whore (The hypersensual, intense woman who attracts men but is socially defenseless. She gets arrested for accusing the Village Elder for raping her and fathering her baby that looks like him, whereupon he accuses her of being an Incubus and stealing his sperm by magic, and she gets burned at the stake with no one to stick up for her).
and so on.
Really interesting! Maybe this partly explains my fascination and identification with "witches" and oracles.
Yeah, what you say makes sense.
_________________
"death is the road to awe"
I found that article to be incredibly superficial, lame and insulting. For example:
"Girls with Asperger Syndrome often develop deeper problems as teenagers. During a time in life when everyone else is obsessed with fashion and fads, Asperger teens often dress in a haphazard way, not following fashion but preferring to wear the same comfortable outfit day after day. They may not wash or use deodorant unless prompted by their families. They may still enjoy toys and games that were popular in grammar school. They may not have the organizational skills needed for high school level work. When their parents try to bring them up to speed and to help them conform to their world, many girls with Asperger's rebel from what they perceive as constant parental criticism."
And this is the litany of "deeper problems"? Not being "obsessed with fashion and fads" like normal teenaged girls? So not being obsessed with clothes and fads is disturbing? And the teenage Aspergers girls may "rebel from what they perceive as constant parental criticism"? That is really un-teenager-like. What kind of fatuous jerk off wrote this crap? The only Asperger-meaningful information in the entire paragraph is that Asperger girls might still like grammar school games and lack organization skills for the high school work. The rest is sheer speculative empty masturbation of social science blather.
"Teen girls with Asperger Syndrome often find female friendships to be very demanding and even overwhelming. They don't understand their adolescent friends' extreme emotional ups and downs - why they cry when they get a failing grade or if a boy does not call. Author Diane Kennedy quotes a "Dear John" letter written by an Aspie girl to her best friend, "Your expectations exhaust me. The phone calls, the girl talk, the whole feelings thing. It's too much for me anymore."
So teen girls with Asperger Syndrome are disturbing because they can't deal with the demanding and overwhelming emotional roller coasters that are normal teen girls' lives. Wow, they really must be sick if they can't relate to all those normal teenaged girls who kill themselves over their appearance, develop anorexia, throw themselves out of windows over boys and try to destroy pretty rivals.
Whomever wrote this had nothing meaningful to say and indeed said nothing that anyone with a superficial guess at what Asperger teen girls might be like could say.
When I was a teenager, I definitely did not follow fashion; I did, in fact, wear the same outfit every day (or alternated between 2 outfits). Also one day, my mother came into my room and basically yelled at me for not wearing deodorant. I mean, honestly! I expected her, or someone, to tell me when it was time. How was I supposed to just "know"? I often wondered why things were not just explained in a rational and orderly fashion...(I guess now I know why though...)
Actually, that article doesn´t apply to me, either. I had a brief respite in Junior High- (but very brief!) I had a best girlfriend at that time, and, maybe partly because of her, a few other kids accepted me too (better than Elementary School). This girl was not at ALL like the article described! We had intensely interesting philosophical conversations. I never hung out with any girl or woman who was obsessed with fashion or was overly emotional...those people have no interest in me, nor I in them. Granted, my situation as a teenager may have been different than most. I lived in a very academic town, a lot of the people who I knew as a teenager would probably be described as classic "geeks". Obviously, I had certain difficulties in the teenage years, but that didn´t begin to compare to the difficulties encountered when I was thrown out into the "real world", as a young adult.
What I find insulting is that it is assumed that all women are overly emotional, obsessed with fashion, and superficial. Time and again I hear women described in this way, and women in movies are ALWAYS portrayed in this way. (I always wondered about that). I guess I always knew that such women existed, but they don´t seem to be a part of my reality...they are those strangers I "don´t know". I know quite a few women...NT´s, I might add...who are normal; rational, cerebral, interesting. I´m getting kind of tired of these stereotypes of women! I agree, that not only should people not rate AS women as being in the wrong for not being "superficial" and "fashion conscious", but also, people should realize that not all NT women are like this either. I don´t know, I´m from the feminist generation...maybe things have taken a step back for women, and I didn´t notice??? I thought these stereotypes were passe´??
_________________
"death is the road to awe"
(1) Classic Witch (the weird antisocial know-it-all who lives at the edge of the village and scares all the kids)
(2) The Oracle (the seemingly simple woman who erupts in painful truths and quite accurate predictions of the things that are going to happen if you don't stop what you are doing, King of Thebes)
(3) Incubus, Succubus, Devil's Whore (The hypersensual, intense woman who attracts men but is socially defenseless. She gets arrested for accusing the Village Elder for raping her and fathering her baby that looks like him, whereupon he accuses her of being an Incubus and stealing his sperm by magic, and she gets burned at the stake with no one to stick up for her).
and so on.
Really interesting! Maybe this partly explains my fascination and identification with "witches" and oracles.
Yeah, what you say makes sense.
Oh, I know it is. Asperger women are the archetypal witches and oracles. Just as there are many variations of witches and oracles, there are many manifestations of individual female Aspergers. A lot of the central themes of witch archetypes tho are antisocial or fears that they are antisocial, wild talents or deep knowledge of intricate subjects, sometimes hypersensuality or improperly socialized sexual activity. A lot of witches were burned for annoying people, like making accusations against village elders or generally not knowing when to shut up.
What I find insulting is that it is assumed that all women are overly emotional, obsessed with fashion, and superficial. Time and again I hear women described in this way, and women in movies are ALWAYS portrayed in this way. (I always wondered about that). I guess I always knew that such women existed, but they don´t seem to be a part of my reality...they are those strangers I "don´t know". I know quite a few women...NT´s, I might add...who are normal; rational, cerebral, interesting. I´m getting kind of tired of these stereotypes of women! I agree, that not only should people not rate AS women as being in the wrong for not being "superficial" and "fashion conscious", but also, people should realize that not all NT women are like this either. I don´t know, I´m from the feminist generation...maybe things have taken a step back for women, and I didn´t notice??? I thought these stereotypes were passe´??
I think you hit it on the head why the article annoyed me. It characterized Asperger female traits within a context of very stereotyped normal female traits. Like the person who wrote it didn't have a lot of insight into normal or Asperger teenaged females, but just posted an article with a lot of plausible-sounding stuff in it.
AmberEyes
Veteran

Joined: 26 Sep 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,438
Location: The Lands where the Jumblies live
(1) Classic Witch (the weird antisocial know-it-all who lives at the edge of the village and scares all the kids)
(2) The Oracle (the seemingly simple woman who erupts in painful truths and quite accurate predictions of the things that are going to happen if you don't stop what you are doing, King of Thebes)
(3) Incubus, Succubus, Devil's Whore (The hypersensual, intense woman who attracts men but is socially defenseless. She gets arrested for accusing the Village Elder for raping her and fathering her baby that looks like him, whereupon he accuses her of being an Incubus and stealing his sperm by magic, and she gets burned at the stake with no one to stick up for her).
and so on.
Really interesting! Maybe this partly explains my fascination and identification with "witches" and oracles.
Yeah, what you say makes sense.
Oh, I know it is. Asperger women are the archetypal witches and oracles. Just as there are many variations of witches and oracles, there are many manifestations of individual female Aspergers. A lot of the central themes of witch archetypes tho are antisocial or fears that they are antisocial, wild talents or deep knowledge of intricate subjects, sometimes hypersensuality or improperly socialized sexual activity. A lot of witches were burned for annoying people, like making accusations against village elders or generally not knowing when to shut up.
I had a nickname at school with regards to point 2).
I'd like to add that there are good/harmless witches and healers too.
I agree with your observations on these girls' characters, but I don't think any of those girls deserve to be witch-hunted/bullied today. Some of these girls may also be Christian/of other religions too. Many of these girls are intelligent, knowledgeable, innocent and probably harmless.
It crops up again and again: people demonising, killing and fearing what they don't want to understand. That's sad.
I've met lots of annoying people and I could deal with them.
Annoyance is in the eye of the beholder anyway.
No...that's tragic.
I don't understand people use others as scape-goats at all.
I agree with your observations on these girls' characters, but I don't think any of those girls deserve to be witch-hunted/bullied today. Some of these girls may also be Christian/of other religions too. Many of these girls are intelligent, knowledgeable, innocent and probably harmless.
It crops up again and again: people demonising, killing and fearing what they don't want to understand. That's sad.
I've met lots of annoying people and I could deal with them.
Annoyance is in the eye of the beholder anyway.
No...that's tragic.
I don't understand people use others as scape-goats at all.
Oh, I agree with you. In Ancient Greece, oracles, seers & priestesses were listened to. In ancient Europe, too. There's only a few societies that have gone around killing witches. Africans (still today), Middle Eastern societies, Christians and ... US.
AmberEyes
Veteran

Joined: 26 Sep 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,438
Location: The Lands where the Jumblies live
Yep.
Still suffering and no-one believes me/takes me seriously.
I honestly don't think that anyone ever will, so why bother?
I can't trust people to honestly treat me fairly and respect me for it either, so I have to hide it, pretend it doesn't exist so that I can be entitled to opportunities in life.
Complete denial for 18 years because my family are kind of like that too.
It was not a relief when I was dxed all those years ago, it was a horrid shock for my family.
AS is still a horrid shock for me to contemplate now. I have so many bad memories of denied opportunities surrounding the "label" and the "help" I received. Whenever anyone talks about it, it feels like I've been kicked in the stomach because people avoided me/ostracised me when I "had" it. They thought that AS people were stupid and not good for anything. It does explain a lot of things, but the informal dx I had in the past ignored all my positive qualities. According to some people I was "broken", "naughty" and "needed to be fixed".
I suffer from other people being judgmental; jumping to conclusions; viewing my personality in a purely negative light; talking down to me and ostracising me, yes.
I have never suffered from my personality though and enjoy being who I am. I sometimes wish that other people enjoyed it and appreciated it as much as I do.
One of the main problems I had when I hit puberty was being bored out of my mind by the shallow conversations other females have. But even now I suspect I have AS I wouldn't put that down as a symptom, more a case of maturity on my part. If these are typical aspect of teenage female (which I would have to say from my experience alot of them were, I'm glad I wasn't a typical teenager.
Who ever wrote the artical seem to believe though the stereotypical gender roles should be the norm for someone NT. In which case I feel more sorry for those that are NT but don't fit into that model.
That reminds me of how I felt when they said I didn't get social skills in Special ED, I felt like "You mean I don't understand how to flaunt spending all of my parents money on a prom dress I'm going to wear only once? Or that I'm not talking about wanting to get laid, getting laid, and being a little whore?"
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