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dougn
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30 Nov 2008, 7:15 pm

I am an agnostic atheist. I don't believe it's possible to know whether or not gods exist, but given the lack of evidence, I have no reason to believe they do.



-JR
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30 Nov 2008, 8:19 pm

"Any atheists here?"

:lol: Three topics in the top 5, I should say so!

Crocodile wrote:

There is just no logical reason to believe in God's existance.


If there was evidence, then it would be logical to believe in God's existence. What people take as "evidence" of God's existence is what the debate is mostly about. A person who believes in God doesn't do so without having evidence that suits them. Might not suit you, or any atheist, but it suits them.


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AspieAtheistAlly
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01 Dec 2008, 9:34 pm

slowmutant wrote:
Quote:
Atheism is a neutral stance,


Incorrect. Agnosticism neither supports nor denies, therefore it is the only neutral stance.


One can be both agnostic AND an atheist. The two aren't mutually exclusive.



dougn
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01 Dec 2008, 11:55 pm

AspieAtheistAlly wrote:
One can be both agnostic AND an atheist. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
And one can be an agnostic and a theist to.

In fact, I would argue that everyone is either an atheist or a theist.

A theist is a person who believes in a god. An atheist is one who does not. One must either believe or not believe. One cannot neither believe nor not believe.

If you cannot answer, "Yes," to the question, "Do you believe in a god," then you are an atheist.



peterd
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02 Dec 2008, 3:39 am

You know, when you look into it, one of the most enduring characteristics of humans - with or without Aspergers - is their propensity to believe whatever they want to in spite of any evidence to the contrary.

My faith in god was my shield and buckler for half a century, and I'll always remember the day it slipped away.



Accelerator
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02 Dec 2008, 12:18 pm

dougn wrote:
AspieAtheistAlly wrote:
One can be both agnostic AND an atheist. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
And one can be an agnostic and a theist to.

In fact, I would argue that everyone is either an atheist or a theist.

A theist is a person who believes in a god. An atheist is one who does not. One must either believe or not believe. One cannot neither believe nor not believe.

If you cannot answer, "Yes," to the question, "Do you believe in a god," then you are an atheist.


Were Nietzsche.. and Jesus both atheists... ?

Or were they both theists.. ?

---

“Every church is a stone on the grave of a god-man: it does not want him to rise up again under any circumstances.”

---

“Once more the Jews lifted up stones to stone him. Jesus replied to them: "I displayed to you many fine works from the Father. For which of those works are you stoning me?" The Jews answered him: "We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for blasphemy, even because you, although being a man, make yourself a god." Jesus answered them : "Is it not written in your Law, `I said: "You are gods"'?

Friedrich Nietzsche.............. and Jesus - John 10:31

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claire-333
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02 Dec 2008, 7:30 pm

dougn wrote:
If you cannot answer, "Yes," to the question, "Do you believe in a god," then you are an atheist.
What about the people who also cannot answer 'yes' to the question, "Do you beleive there is no God'?



Accelerator
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02 Dec 2008, 8:05 pm

claire333 wrote:
dougn wrote:
If you cannot answer, "Yes," to the question, "Do you believe in a god," then you are an atheist.
What about the people who also cannot answer 'yes' to the question, "Do you beleive there is no God'?


"..for them to seek god, if they might grope for him and really find him, although , in fact, he is not far off from each one of us. For by him we have life and move and exist, even as certain ones of the poets among you have said, `For we are also his progeny.”

“Do you not know that you people are God's temple, and that the spirit of God dwells in you?"

Acts 17:23 + 1Corinthians 3:16

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“Every church is a stone on the grave of a god-man: it does not want him to rise up again under any circumstances.”

Nietzsche


-

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dougn
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02 Dec 2008, 10:30 pm

claire333 wrote:
What about the people who also cannot answer 'yes' to the question, "Do you beleive there is no God'?
I can't answer, "Yes," to that question but I'm still an atheist.

Most atheists can't.

An atheist is simply one who does not believe in a god. One need not believe in lack of a god to be an atheist.

A weak atheist or agnostic atheist is one who merely does not believe in a god. A hard atheist believes there is no god.



claire-333
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02 Dec 2008, 10:41 pm

All these terms, definitions, and explanations on the terminology gets my head to spinning. Especially with you combining the terms and adding levels of firmness. I think I am just an agnostic on the rocks. :wink:



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17 Jan 2009, 10:01 pm

claire333 wrote:
dougn wrote:
If you cannot answer, "Yes," to the question, "Do you believe in a god," then you are an atheist.
What about the people who also cannot answer 'yes' to the question, "Do you beleive there is no God'?


Many atheists don't "believe there is no god". They just don't believe that there is one. There's a difference. Some atheists would answer yes to your question, and some would answer no.



twoshots
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17 Jan 2009, 10:07 pm

Accelerator wrote:
claire333 wrote:
...
...

What happened to these two, anyway?


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greenblue
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17 Jan 2009, 10:43 pm

twoshots wrote:
Accelerator wrote:
claire333 wrote:
...
...

What happened to these two, anyway?

I haven't seen claire333 posting here, for a while.


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19 Jan 2009, 4:31 pm

Accelerator wrote:
Nevertheless.. Jesus made theism obsolete.. and replaced it with the idea of the God inside.. thereby doing away with the dualistic God and man concept.. as if the two were separate.

In the teachings of the New testament.. the two become as one.

----

“The distinction between natural and supernatural, in fact, broke down; and when it had done so, the burden of intolerable strangeness which this universe imposes on us by dividing it into two halves and encouraging the mind never to think of both in the same context. What price we may have paid for this comfort in the way of false security and accepted confusion of the thought is another matter.”

C.S Lewis


Okay, wow, guess I'll throw my hat in the ring here, I'm new.
Accelerator, It seems to me you do just as the Christians do which is pick and choose from the Bible and create your own Jesus, in this case a Nietzschian one.

The Bible clearly says God created the heavens and the Earth. He physically comes down to the earth and interacts like a man. You can say that's all metaphorical, (just as Christians do when they are faced with something ridiculous in the Bible) but wheres your evidence? The Bible was written by desert sheep-herders through oral traditions over hundreds of years separated by countless generations who had their own philosophies and beliefs passed down and documented. Ancient texts can and have been interpreted any way a sect or philosophical group wants to. The evidence for Jesus' existence is basically nill, however I don't have a hard time in believing someone would say they were God and get their ass executed for it.

There's enough quotable passages in the Bible to support the idea that Adam sinned causing a curse on all mankind but God sent his son to earth to be a blood sacrifice in atonement for the Original Sin to save them from Hell through faith in God, but those who did not believe Jesus was the son of God (which for most Christians means God in human form) were SOL. Most of Christianity adheres to this tenant. Just because you interpret it differently doesn't make your idea more valid.
Your own example CS Lewis said that Jesus must have been either a Liar, Lunatic or Lord. (He lied about being God, He was Crazy or he was God). I'd argue he forgot another L; Legend.

Agnostic Atheist here. Gnosis and Theos are two different issues. Agnostics don't know there are gods and Atheists don't believe there are gods. That's not the same as believing there are no gods (which I also do). I don't happen to believe a man named Juan built my house, but that doesn't mean I believe my house wasn't built by a man named Juan. I have no clue who built it, but I'm still an Ajuanist.

(I'm not like some Agnostics who claim there's no way to know or we never will know. If they claim to know nothing, how do they know they can't know?)

I don't *know* there's no God because God can be defined by anyone, and often is defined outside the scope of anything testable or provable. However, the evidence tells me God is a man-made concept based on his own wishes and emotions, and with nothing rational or scientific to base a God idea on, I find no way to believe it. (PS I was a Christian till I was fifteen). I also happen to take the extra step and believe there are no gods, in that I find it very unlikely and therefore probably not true.

Like I said I was a Christian till I was fifteen (raised that way) until something happened. Religion became one of my interests. As someone with AS I relentlessly searched and obsessed for years and went through phases of belief, then "Agnosticism" while believing conspiracy theories, new age mysticism, paranormal, etc. The one thing I settled on that holds any weight once you become a skeptical person is empirical science. So yeah I think that's the one connection Asperger's has with atheism: We like to do our research.

I'll also say I'm not "dogmatic" or a "fundamentalist atheist". Atheism has no tenants. It's just the state of not being a Theist. I'll re-assess my views the minute a good argument or evidence comes out. The jury's still out on leprechauns too. Sneaky little buggers.



JoJerome
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19 Jan 2009, 11:43 pm

Also new since this thread started, but would rather post here than start a new one.

My opinion/observation on the original question; I do see more atheism/agnosticism among Aspies than NTs. Aspies are naturally more inclined to objectively ask 'why' and apply universal standards of reason and rationality to a given belief. (NOTE THE QUALIFIER: "More inclined to." Certainly not all do and not all come to the same conclusions).

Applying universal standards of reason and rationality - in my observation - more often than not results in atheism/agnosticism. (Again; note the qualifiers; 'in my observation' ... 'more often than not.')

That said, put me in the Atheist ring. Actually; Pagan-Wiccan-Atheist-Pastafarian.

Pagan-Wiccan are common practices more so than specific god-dogmas. Scientifically, we are indeed connected to the Earth and other living things on and around it. We are indeed affected by the phases of the moon and changing of the seasons. Therefore, Paganism/Wicca as meditative practices, make sense to me.

Athiest: I'm a little confounded by the complexity of the debate here. It's always struck me as a pretty simple term: I do not believe in 'god' in the common sense of the word (sentient, separate-consciousness-from-you-and-I being(s) poking at us like fish in a fishbowl). I see zero evidence for the existence of such a being. I see mountains upon mountains of evidence that such beings are man-made superstitions. In the same way that I do not believe the moon is made of green cheese, I do not believe god(s) exist.

Pastafarian: The assertion here is that there is just as much (many can argue better) evidence that the Christian god is false and our real creator-deity is in fact a Flying Spaghetti Monster. Since there is just as much chance that one exists versus the other, I choose the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

- His "Eight I'd Really Rather You Didn'ts" are a lot more moral and rational to me than "The Ten Commandments."

- Fettucini Alfredo tastes way better than communion wafers.

- I like pirates.




- Jo



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20 Jan 2009, 8:49 am

Chibi_Neko wrote:
But I don't have the same certainty that athiests have about the afterlife, know one can know, I am open to the idea of a afterlife and spirits, but I don't let it control me.


This certainty is relative easy to explain:

Our mind, consciousness, is obviously a function on a physical and chemical level of our brains. If this would be not the case, it could be not explained, why physical and chemical alterations of the state of the brain (e.g. injuries, drugs) can change the consciousness so drastically.

If the functioning of our brains is basis of our mere existence as consciousness beings, than an end of those functions must be also an end of ourself. In other words: No afterlife.

---

My general stand is that the non-existence of single god is not to prove. But this also true for the non-existence of Athena or Zeus.

The assumption of the existence of a god does raise more philosophical question and paradoxes than the assumption of the non-existence of god and given the fact that nothing does support the existence of any god, I must take the fact that the existence of a god is unlikely that I can say safely: There no god.



Last edited by Dussel on 20 Jan 2009, 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.