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Ishmael
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10 Dec 2008, 7:58 am

Bizarre... I have read many different historical accounts and modern descriptions of Australia, in several languages, yet alarmingly most of them are quite wrong and display gross stereotypes or factoids taken well and truly beyond reason.
Some date from when Australia was not as important globally as it is today, and appear as though less effort to thoroughly check true facts was made.
Other, more modern accounts, seem to expand largely mythologized ideas about Australia.
Strange stories about Australia being a racist nation, in some part a gross misrepresentation of both true and fictional historical events, ie, the emerging myth about any sort of organized armed movement to intentionally displace aboriginals. Often, the (sometimes unofficial) class system is reversed or ignored, and British or Colonial government decisions are blamed on settlers. Not to mention the large ignorance of Australias wartime actions, innacurrate observations about Crown influence in modern eras, and one of the largest myths - often even invoked by uninformed young Australians, too - that Australia, as a whole, was founded as a penal colony, or the bizarre myth that most or all Australians are descended from criminal convicts. Admittedly one Japanese article on Australia was accurate in stating that the convicts were guilty of misdemeanors, most of which would not qualify as even that today.
Though the same article still got the numbers wrong about settlers, who eventually outnumbered the "criminal" convict descendents. Which caused a little resentment with those descendents, actually. Regardless, the convict presence was of benefit and detriment; convicts were "real people", not ineffectual inheritors of good fortune. But, it also caused a faster rise of a class system, even if sometimes unofficial, than in other colonial regions.
Settler migration brought many skilled workers, too.
Also often ignored are the reasons behind many government actions, the unpopularity of the actions with the populace, and why certain actions seem to have been against the British colonial interests.
Much of this can be attributed to "multimedia education", in other words, movies, fiction and the tourism industry. It's also alarming how many Australian historians are very wrong - though not surprising, given the "history wars" being waged.

Just to shed light on a few myths, very, very briefly;
Australia was not intended as a penal colony until after America's independence. Sydney was then established as a penal colony, and the presence of aboriginals came as a surprise, with the belief that Australia was unpopulated. The convicts had no specific opinions on aboriginals, true conflict was very minor, about half instigated by semi-displaced aboriginals, half started by European settlers close to or in the disputed regions, often hunting grounds important to the aboriginals. Many died from disease, and tribes weakened by disease were lost by competition for land. Tasmania has often been put out of proportion by this, people often forgetting that - as an island - disease was more destructive, competition more vital. Though there were several genuine incidents, several instigated by religious groups and class-based governments, most widely known incidents are romanticized.
The White Australia policy originated with labour disputes against Chinese immigrants, who worked for less, and a government still "recovering" from de facto class system, "ran with it". They did not want to be just another British colony; they wanted to *be* British, which - in the years the European world had that stupid "White mans burden" idea, meant they had to be populated with "British". If you'll read British accounts of colony leaders, you may see why that was.
This policy was seen in a relatively positive light by labour groups, was quite unpopular with other groups, but most, even if they didn't like the idea, didn't care. They were white, so it wasn't their problem. Many average Australians were concerned about the various Asian nation troubles at the time, too, and for that reason it held. Most resistance to the policy came from people who disliked the idea that dark-skinned races would also be barred; largely due to the class/de facto class system, many Australians were in the same position as darker races, and shared a common interest, or either did not have the "luxury" of "hasty racism".
Though that largely applied to "civilized" darker races. Actually, it's interesting to note the views of the old government on African-American soldiers posted in Australia, who were often welcomed by Australian citizens mor enthusiastically than the "over paid, over sexes, over here" white counterparts.
Tasmania was also a convict settlements. Most other cities were founded by free settlers but, except for SA, took convicts. Conservative estimates suggest that less than 10% of the European population are convict descendents.
Lastly, there are several Australian accents, the Outback is not all that Australia is, and, despite peoples assumption that the aboriginal population has been "decimated" by settlement, perhaps by seeing that aboriginals only make up 2% of the population, Aboriginal population is actually, now, at it's highest level ever, and, despite growing popular belief, most modern issues with Aboriginals a culturally related, largely isolated within the Northern Territory. That last one is not from research, but experience. I'm originally from NT, and my father was pretty important in addressing those issues, which are not likely to go away any time soon, largely thanks to culture shock and cultural conflict.

There. Done. Questions?


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anna-banana
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10 Dec 2008, 11:25 am

is it true that "kangaroo" means "I don't understand" in Aboriginal?


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Ishmael
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10 Dec 2008, 11:44 am

anna-banana wrote:
is it true that "kangaroo" means "I don't understand" in Aboriginal?


No, actually. There are many aboriginal languages, and the word kangaroo comes from the name, in some dialects, for grey kangaroos - gangurru.


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10 Dec 2008, 12:21 pm

anna-banana wrote:
is it true that "kangaroo" means "I don't understand" in Aboriginal?


No, but the real story is just as good.

They asked one tribe what the hoppy marsupial was called and they answered "kangaroo", which meant to that tribe, what it now means to us.

However, when they asked another tribe what "kangaroo" meant, the tribe replies "I don't know" because they did not have the same word for the hoppy marsupial.

Thus the false conclusion was made that "kangaroo" means "I don't know" and the first tribe did not know what the hoppy marsupial's name was (when in fact they did!).



anna-banana
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10 Dec 2008, 2:07 pm

^^that really is a better story! thanks Letum, I'm going to have a load of fun correcting people with this :D


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claire-333
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10 Dec 2008, 7:22 pm

Ishmael wrote:
gangurru.
My new favorite word. :D



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10 Dec 2008, 8:22 pm

Ishmael wrote:
gangurru.



Image


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10 Dec 2008, 8:59 pm

What, you mean you people don't spend your evenings breaking furniture and having technicolor yawns, before doing indecent things to sheep? Damn, if you can't trust the media, who can you trust these days... Next they'll be telling me that Canada isn't full of illiterate sport fishermen, and that the Brits managed to successfully cook something edible.


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pezar
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10 Dec 2008, 11:20 pm

Dox47 wrote:
What, you mean you people don't spend your evenings breaking furniture and having technicolor yawns, before doing indecent things to sheep? Damn, if you can't trust the media, who can you trust these days... Next they'll be telling me that Canada isn't full of illiterate sport fishermen, and that the Brits managed to successfully cook something edible.


I've heard that Russia is STILL full of mystery meats that are uncuttable with any known utensil, and that the only thing Russia produces of any consequence is oil and vodka. Russia generally can't catch a break-it has Chernobyl, a zillion ethnic groups that all hate each other's guts and that claim tiny patches of useless land, virtually no legal system, very little in the way of a job base, empty stores except in Moscow and St. Petersburg, and an excess of dictators named Vladimir who look and act like Count Dracula, whose birth name was Vladimir Tepes. And all this AFTER the fall of communism. The KGB is still around, just renamed and with new top bosses.

Do some Australians deliberately adopt Outback accents in order to fit the Crocodile Dundee stereotype to humor foreigners, in much the way that a working class Englishman must adopt a "king's accent" to be successful? Steve Irwin never struck me as being a bush wrangler, indeed anybody who can buy a massive amount of fertile land for a wildlife preserve has loaded family members, but he had that ridiculous, outsized Outback accent. I tend to think that he did it deliberately in order to sell himself and his interests.

America has more accents than atonal flatness, Southern redneck, and Tony Soprano, too. Utah Mormons tend to have a weird twang, a holdover from the days of the frontier and of frontier farmers from the North. It's also found in Idaho and rural Nevada, which are heavy with Mormons. Missionaries typically are taught to suppress it, but you can hear it in the voices of the polygamist splinter group members.

In California, the Chinese population has retained their ethnic accents due to isolation, despite having been here for 150 years. In much of San Francisco, Chinese will typically learn Cantonese first, then Mandarin Chinese, THEN English. Many speak Cantonese much more easily than English, which is typically used only when talking to outsiders.

Other ethnicities have usually integrated more readily-second generation Latinos and Slavics typically have no accent. On the other hand, blacks often have a "black accent" and even their own dialect in some areas. Blacks typically have to learn to "talk white", I once had a college professor who said that she had to learn to shed her black accent to get hired. Businessmen who hail from the rural South find they have to shed their "Jethro accent" to get people to take them seriously.



Ishmael
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10 Dec 2008, 11:22 pm

Dox47 wrote:
What, you mean you people don't spend your evenings breaking furniture and having technicolor yawns, before doing indecent things to sheep? Damn, if you can't trust the media, who can you trust these days... Next they'll be telling me that Canada isn't full of illiterate sport fishermen, and that the Brits managed to successfully cook something edible.


Actually, it's the kiwis that are supposed to do indecent things to sheep.


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pezar
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10 Dec 2008, 11:33 pm

Ishmael wrote:
Lastly, there are several Australian accents, the Outback is not all that Australia is, and, despite peoples assumption that the aboriginal population has been "decimated" by settlement, perhaps by seeing that aboriginals only make up 2% of the population, Aboriginal population is actually, now, at it's highest level ever, and, despite growing popular belief, most modern issues with Aboriginals a culturally related, largely isolated within the Northern Territory. That last one is not from research, but experience. I'm originally from NT, and my father was pretty important in addressing those issues, which are not likely to go away any time soon, largely thanks to culture shock and cultural conflict.

There. Done. Questions?


It seems that even many Australians have the idea that Aboriginals have been heavily persecuted. When the band Midnight Oil briefly became popular in the US in the mid 80s (along with a surge in other Australian music such as AC/DC and Men At Work) the songs that were hitting the charts here were arguing that the Aboriginals had been greatly deprived of justice, an issue meaningless to Americans. Their best selling hit here, Beds Are Burning, argued for land repatriations to Aboriginals, which I suspect is viewed by middle class Australia in the same way that cash payments to blacks for slavery reparations is viewed by white Americans. Australia's loony left hold more power than America's due to the way a parliamentary system is set up. Many times a radical or one issue party holds the precious handful of votes needed to pass a major bill, enabling them to hold the country hostage until everybody addresses their narrow obsession. Israel has the same problem. In Japan, a conspiracist party tied the country in knots for weeks with debate on whether UFOs were real and had visited Japan thanks to this quirk.



Ishmael
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11 Dec 2008, 12:09 am

True, pezar, parliamentary democracy isn't perfect. Still, nobody's yet come up with a significantly better system - except maybe a benevolent dictatorship...
As a result, the "black armband" historical view is given more attention than it deserves.
Also, Steve Irwin definitely had a fake accent; he was a character actor! "Steve Irwin: Crocodile Hunter" was the character he invented to sell his product!


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11 Dec 2008, 12:14 am

Ishmael wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
What, you mean you people don't spend your evenings breaking furniture and having technicolor yawns, before doing indecent things to sheep? Damn, if you can't trust the media, who can you trust these days... Next they'll be telling me that Canada isn't full of illiterate sport fishermen, and that the Brits managed to successfully cook something edible.

Actually, it's the kiwis that are supposed to do indecent things to sheep.

Next you'll be telling us that the folks "Down Under" don't learn to walk on their hands with their feet in the air before they learn to walk normal ... :wink:


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Ishmael
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11 Dec 2008, 12:43 am

I've never understood why people, Australians too, persist in saying "down under". I know where the expression came from, but why is it still used? Down under from what? North isn't up; down isn't south - arbitrary definitions for equally opposing magnetic forces.
Really, from Australia, Europe, Asia and North America are down under.


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11 Dec 2008, 8:55 am

Ishmael wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
What, you mean you people don't spend your evenings breaking furniture and having technicolor yawns, before doing indecent things to sheep? Damn, if you can't trust the media, who can you trust these days... Next they'll be telling me that Canada isn't full of illiterate sport fishermen, and that the Brits managed to successfully cook something edible.


Actually, it's the kiwis that are supposed to do indecent things to sheep.


round here we say that about the Welsh.


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12 Dec 2008, 4:33 pm

Wherever there are large numbers of sheep, someone will want to have sex with them.