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Forsaken
Raven
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22 Dec 2008, 6:10 am

Firegirl531 wrote:
CanyonWind wrote:
What if some gay dudes decide to rob the bank?


...And do what exactly? :|



Ewwwww!
:eew:



ThisUserNameIsTaken
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22 Dec 2008, 6:23 am

Yes, because a society of people who are known for their inability to socialize would function so well :roll:

In case you haven't realized, human evolution has always followed two trends:
1. The traits that allow the organism to walk upright better are favored
2. The traits that allow the organism to better socialize are favored

The reason why we're so intelligent is due to better socialization (the ability to make and use tools was a side-effect). The reason we developed sophisticated language is because it allowed us to better socialize. And because human courtship relies almost exclusively on socialization, that trend of evolution is still seen to this day. Oh, and the ability to lie is actually a positive trait as far as evolution is concerned. So you see, AS is actually selected against in natural evolution, whereas all the NT traits are selected for (hence the reason they're the typical traits).

And your plan fails for three reasons:
1. Most people still reproduce the traditional way
2. The entire concept of evolving the human race via sperm banks relies on the assumption that every child produced via artificial insemination will go onto to produce multiple children of their own. This cannot happen if all the offspring have a difficult time getting sex. Even assuming that they all donated their sperm to other banks, the amount of aspies still wouldn't rise because their numbers would be limited by the amount of infertile men.
3. Couples seeking sperm donors want the donor to not only be intelligent and handsome, but free from any history of physical and mental problems as well. As a result, sperm banks would not accept sperm from an aspie. And an all-aspie sperm bank would be terribly unsuccessful because as stated previously, infertile couples want their sperm donor baby to be "perfect".



Zyborg
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28 Dec 2008, 11:18 am

Aspies are socialising very well with other aspies is my experience.

In fact, aspies are better at socialising, since we are straightforward people.

For typical NT;s, what matter is leaders and packs. It is more important to be a part of the pack than factually correct. For an aspie, it is more important to be factually correct than part of a pack.

I could agree that NT-type qualities are superior in Stone Age-civilisation.

But advanced types of civilisations demand a high degree of technical specialisation.

In a society with an aspie majority, it would be NT;s who would be bad at socialisation, since they do not care if they are factually correct.

Here is an example from an aspie society.

NT girl see good-looking aspie boy, she goes forward and talks with him about the weather. He replies and walks away. She does'nt get to go with him to the Star Trek-convention. Aspie girl who asks for following with him to the convention gets the chance.



Letum
Deinonychus
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28 Dec 2008, 12:25 pm

Zyborg: your posts smack of prejudice and a superiority complex. The whole passive eugenics idea sounds like something from the early 20th century's darkest moments.
If you think we "should not stand in the way for evolution", then you need to rethink your ideas drastically. Eugenics: the selective breeding of humans, is exactly that; standing in the way of evolution.

You say that you value those who think that "it is more important to be factually correct than part of a pack", not only are you not factually correct; you seam to see being part of the 'Aspie pack' as of up most importance. Perhaps that is not surprising, considering the strange and unsubstantiated ideas you have about the condition.



Zyborg
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28 Dec 2008, 12:39 pm

Good post, but you made two wrongs.

All that I have said have been a defensive approach against the offensive attacks which NT;s are making upon us. Again, and again, and again.

It is obvious that they either consider us not a part of their society at all, or as inferior to them.

That means that for us to be accepted, or rather "tolerated", by them, we must suck up to them.

I have seen aspies who have been taught to beg for acceptance and tell everyone they are inferior because they have Asperger's. They have been forced to say to all in their classes or workplaces that they are "mentally challenged".'

They are forced to get on anti-depressive pills by doctors who ignore that the CAUSE of them being depressed is not Asperger's but the pressure and demands put on them by NT;s.

Those who created "we" and "them" were not aspies in the beginning, but the NT;s. Of course, your parents did not create that distinction, but the leaders of the NT communities did that.

In their world, they are "we" and we are "them".

I prefer to be a part of a "we" rather than a "them".

We are not the only group which has been made into the "other".

Just read Ani Loomba's "Colonialism and Post-colonialism".

All groups which have been different have been cast out.

We are basically the only "other" left today (except for "radical islamists").

We are the only "genuine" other, in that the cause of our otherness is not different opinions, but a physical difference which cannot be altered.

It was the neurotypicals who first wanted to change us.

If we should survive, and I dare say, if civilisation has any future, we must begin to think of ourselves as a "we".

We aspies must organise and build our own communities.

If we don't do that, they will find a way to exterminate us!



DeanFoley
Deinonychus
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28 Dec 2008, 2:11 pm

Zyborg wrote:
Good post, but you made two wrongs.

All that I have said have been a defensive approach against the offensive attacks which NT;s are making upon us. Again, and again, and again.

It is obvious that they either consider us not a part of their society at all, or as inferior to them.

That means that for us to be accepted, or rather "tolerated", by them, we must suck up to them.

I have seen aspies who have been taught to beg for acceptance and tell everyone they are inferior because they have Asperger's. They have been forced to say to all in their classes or workplaces that they are "mentally challenged".'

They are forced to get on anti-depressive pills by doctors who ignore that the CAUSE of them being depressed is not Asperger's but the pressure and demands put on them by NT;s.

Those who created "we" and "them" were not aspies in the beginning, but the NT;s. Of course, your parents did not create that distinction, but the leaders of the NT communities did that.

In their world, they are "we" and we are "them".

I prefer to be a part of a "we" rather than a "them".

We are not the only group which has been made into the "other".

Just read Ani Loomba's "Colonialism and Post-colonialism".

All groups which have been different have been cast out.

We are basically the only "other" left today (except for "radical islamists").

We are the only "genuine" other, in that the cause of our otherness is not different opinions, but a physical difference which cannot be altered.

It was the neurotypicals who first wanted to change us.

If we should survive, and I dare say, if civilisation has any future, we must begin to think of ourselves as a "we".

We aspies must organise and build our own communities.

If we don't do that, they will find a way to exterminate us!


ISSUING PRIMARY DIRECTIVE 00473 TO ASPIE CENTRAL COLLECTIVE.

PRIMARY DIRECTIVE ISSUED. TARGET CONFIRMED, COMMENCING ASSUALT ON NEUROTYPICAL LOCATIONS.

EXTERMINATE THE NEUROTYPICALS. EXTERMINATE, EXTERMINATE.



Zyborg
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28 Dec 2008, 2:13 pm

Ha ha ha.

Humor.

Image



Tails
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28 Dec 2008, 3:11 pm

For crying out loud. AS is not a desirable outcome. AS is a disability. If you accept the label of AS, it is because you accept that you have this disability and are, at least to some degree, impaired. While it's perfectly good to love yourself for who you are, wishing a world full of people with difficulties seems incredibly counterproductive.

For example, there would be many many people with closely related comorbid disorders such as epilepsy, dyspraxia, sensory integration/processing disorder... and of course, a great many more 'severely' autistic people. Bad call, mate. Bad call.


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Zyborg
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28 Dec 2008, 3:27 pm

Tails wrote:
For crying out loud. AS is not a desirable outcome. AS is a disability. If you accept the label of AS, it is because you accept that you have this disability and are, at least to some degree, impaired. While it's perfectly good to love yourself for who you are, wishing a world full of people with difficulties seems incredibly counterproductive.

For example, there would be many many people with closely related comorbid disorders such as epilepsy, dyspraxia, sensory integration/processing disorder... and of course, a great many more 'severely' autistic people. Bad call, mate. Bad call.


I will donate my sperm to a sperm bank.

I think its a preferable price to pay to get a world with several more creative geniuses. Don't you?

Or you maybe prefer racism, greed and "rule-by-popularity" before rationalism, science and logic.

Neither I, or any Aspergian with any sense of pride will ever agree to being "disabled".

The majority happen to be unlike us.

So what?

Asperger's don't lead to serial killings or any physical impairments.

Just because we have a different social culture does'nt make us disabled.

As an Aspergian, I should be able to first and foremost be judged as a sentient being, and be able to become chief engineer of NASA or Prime Minister.



Tails
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28 Dec 2008, 3:34 pm

Yes, you have the right to become whatever you want to be. And so do NTs. Contrary to what you seem to believe, all NTs are NOT sex-obsessed 'cave men'. They have just as much right to be here as we do.

Procreate if you wish - you are perfectly entitled to.

But the fact remains that if you take on the name of a syndrome, you are saying you have a disability. Otherwise, you are not a person with AS - you are just an individual intelligent idiosyncratic person.

Everyone has an equal right to be here and exist, and there are as many wonderful NTs as there are bad ones. And there are also plenty of AS people who are not nice people. Being nice or not nice, and/or doing good things, has nothing to do with whether you have AS or not.


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Zyborg
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28 Dec 2008, 3:57 pm

I haven't said I want to wipe out NT;s.

I want to protect aspies from being erradicated by NT;s.

That is simple.

I was diagnosed with Asperger's at age 14.



Tails
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28 Dec 2008, 3:59 pm

I was diagnosed at 14 also. But you would not have gone to get a diagnosis if there was not a problem, right?

Aspies are in no danger of being 'wiped out'. We are seen as harmless by most who are even aware of us, and the majority of people aren't even aware. We are just another scattered trailmix of odds and ends along with every single other group of people and individual person.


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Zyborg
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28 Dec 2008, 4:04 pm

The problem was not me.

It was me having to share my living-space with primitive existences.

You say that now. Wait thirty years, and you will see.



Tails
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28 Dec 2008, 4:07 pm

Primitive existences? Just because they aren't the same as you? I HOPE the world is never over populated with people like you, then, who believe that people who are different to them are automatically lower.


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Zyborg
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28 Dec 2008, 4:17 pm

Primitive does'nt mean "lower", it means "less developed".

If there is something "wrong" with not calling girls "whores", not vandalising public space, or not only use one-sentenced words, then it is everything wrong with me.

I refused to undress in presence of other kids during gymnastics. That was the only thing that I could'nt handle.



DeanFoley
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28 Dec 2008, 6:04 pm

Because those are totally NT traits. Aspies never vandalise anything or insult anyone.

I have Aspergers Syndrome and I don't know the first thing about technology, advanced or otherwise.