The Church (In General) & Aspies

Post Reply New Topic

For those of you who (like me) are both "Spirit-Filled" "Christians, and at the same time, an Aspie, I have a few questions that I would like to pose to you:

How do the people in your church treat you? Do they intentionally include you in the ministries of your church, or are they incredibly ignorant when it comes to understanding and ministering to you and your "Special" needs?

For those of you who are acitvely involved in the life of your church, what roles do you play?

Is there presently an active, regularly scheduled, on-going "Special Needs" Ministry in your church in which you are presently involved?

I would really love to hear some of your responses, but if and when you choose to respond to these questions, the only thing that I ask, is that you be completely honest.

PastorNate

Pastor Nate,

First, I don't fit in at my Catholic church. Neither does my family.
Most of the families there see my family as being "anti-social" or "strange."
My church is very tight-knit and reject any family different from them.
Unfortunately, my family is one of the "rejects" by both reason and force.

During Mass, I usually sit in the same pew. Is it boring? Not necessarilly.
On occassions when the pew is occuppied, I sit in the pew in front or behind it.
A family joins me sometimes, therefore they are my "fake family"
for the running time of Mass. My "fake family" treats me very well.

After Mass, some families go to the school's basement to socialize over coffee and donuts.
I usually stand to the side eating my donut and drinking some alternative to coffee, such as juice or water. Many a congregator I have attempted to befriend to little to no avail.
Coffee & Donut time is like high school. There are cliques.
Families sit with familes, seniors sit with seniors, little children play with little children, etc.
It is so xenophobic!

Peace,
AA

PS: Pastor Nate, if you would like to PM me, please feel free.

I celebrate Christmas because I believe Santa Claus is the one true God.

Nate,

First question: incredibly ignorant of my special needs, unfortunately. It was a bad idea to tell even 2 or 3 people that I am an Aspie. A lot more people know about it than just the 2 or 3. And according to what a friend from church has told me, people have tended to be very disparaging about it.

I have a minister who obviously isn't Aspie friendly, even though I realise he knows nothing about AS and that AS is an education thing for people like him. Despite knowing nothing about AS, he has decided that AS must represent a mental illness. And last year, at a big Christian gathering, there was a talk on healing where healing was offered. And he harassed (harassment, that is, going on for 15 minutes or so) to take part in this session on account of AS. I had no choice but to take part but as far as anyone can see I'm still an Aspie.

I cannot generalise on how members of the church and people who attend the church treat me, but can say a great many people communicate with me in a way that is patronising. Either this has increased over the past year, or I have noticed it more and paid more attention to it. I am very uncomfortable with this.

I do have an active involvement though. I am on door duty about once a month and am on the finance committee.

There is no special needs ministry but then, that hasn't been thought about.

Well, what a subject for me.

My parents were raised Catholic, but they switched to Episcipalian when I was born. Then before I could remember, they became the dreaded "Born Again" Christians. We moved when I hit 7th grade.

So then we went church hopping to find a good church, and we found a very small church (like 20 members) that we liked. A couple years later, the church no longer was, so we ended up at this Baptist church that my mom worked in (choir director). After I graduated high school, I did their beach week instead of senior beach week. That was the most aweful experience. I'm still very very bitter about it, so you'd get an earful if I tell the whole story. Since then, I go to church for weddings and funerals only, and even then, they better be close.

Now I find myself having a slight phobia of church. In basic training, people, athiests, went to church in order to get a break. It was highly recommended for that break. I tried it once, and preferred to clean up the dorms with the Training INstructor (Air Force version of Drill Sgt.). I did like Bible Study, but I often slept in it because we never got to sleep and it was hard for me to sit and not move and stay awake.

So, then I marry a Catholic (outside of the church, and I still don't understand how I'm in mortal sin cause the marriage isn't valid until I marry in the church except that if I got a divorce and wanted to remarry in the church, then they'd have to consider all my previous marriages as valid even if they weren't performed in the church). Anyway, I'm trying to warm up to Catholicsm. I started by going to a Catholic Forum, but I felt like they were judging me based on my problems with what they consider the socially appropriate. They've come close to banning me for stupid reasons like I insulted God and the church when I tried to state my observation of communion on a visit to mass, but I guess that's a taboo subject because they take communion/Eucharist so seriously that to take it lightly like a mere observation is insulting. In fact, I don't understand how they can discuss it at all without insulting each other. So, I go on there now once in a while, but I've lost interest since I feel judged too much. But, I will say that I find it a beautiful quality of the church to take communion as seriously as they do, but i wish they could also take the idea that other people may not realize that a little bit more heavily than they do. It's funny how someone started a thread on here about kids not realizing that the person they are talking to doesn't know everything the kid knows (like if a kid was at a class that you weren't at and then was trying to tell you what happened in that class, they always leave out a lot of the story because they don't realize you wouldn't know what they know). They make it sound like it goes away into adulthood, but it doesn't.

I personally am very spiritual. I like to read the Bible and study the Bible on my own, and actually study it rather than taking it out of context, which for someone with Aspergers, I think i do a better job at that than most people. I also find Catholic Catechism to be a very interesting study. I never considered angels to be all knowing for instance, so to think about the idea that God could never forgive Satan is interesting. I, unlike many church members, believe I should actually try to live by the Book. I really try not to lie, and I try not to sin, and I try to treat people with the same respect as Jesus would treat them. I also am aware that I am human and is destined to sin. I expect everyone to sin. I think it's important because you can't grow and learn without sin. Otherwise, we'd be angels. But, we don't grow from it if we try to deny we do it. The growth comes out of sin, guilt, apology, asking for forgiveness which is humility and humbleness, and then finding a way to forgive yourself. I just think church members feel that because they go to church, they have this right to use God as a mask to cover their sins and be in denial about it. The truth will set you free.

In all honesty, I consider churches to be a social group. It's like creating a book club based on the Bible. Nothing more. Christ expected more when He started the church, but human evolution destroyed that beauty. Just imagine the letters Paul would write today. It's a popularity contest and ego feeding activity full of politics. I don' t know if this is an Aspie thing or not, but I'm not attracted to politics and other reindeer games, especially when dealing with something as important as my spirit and soul. I personally get insulted when people take things like heaven and hell with a grain of salt by dealing with it as lightly as they seem to be socially adept to doing. But churches are often more concerned about people insulting them than them insulting other people.

Now, I'm considering Catholicism only because it's the one true church started by Christ, and I have to accept it flaws and all, but also, my children. I have a friend who never takes her kids to church. They have no concept of Jesus, Adam and Eve, etc. One day, her son asked seriously if Gosh was God's brother. I can't do that to my kids. They need to be in a church to learn about all those things, and I can't think of a better church than The church.

Why? Let's see. The priests are often very educated, some holding more than one or two degrees and many with PhD's, and most can read Hebrew and Greek (original language of the Bible). Plus, the facts are more taught in The Church such as it's normal for the active members to be aware of the history of translation and the different types of translations that are out there and to study some of the problems in translation, and to even read the Bible in different translations. They don't tell you myths like I read in a modern christian book that Moses wrote the book of Deuteronomy, but I know better that it was the Deuteronomic Historians that wrote that book and you can tell by their style...hence it being a History Book as opposed to Poetry like Psalms. I am also aware that there is no real historical evidence of Moses except The Bible and The Q'ran. Plus, I have daughters. While Jesus Christ is an awesome tangible character for the concrete thinkers (young children), I would like them to be able to connect earlier on with a woman like Mary. I also think the Catholic Church gives women more respect than the Protestants. The Jewish faith is the only other one I know that gives women a lot of respect. But it's not just about stories about the sins of women like Eve, and Delilah or on "permissable sin" which I don't buy of Rebekah, Sarah, etc. For instance, they tell you it was the women who were there for Christ at the time of His Crucifixion when all the men/disciples fled in fear for their life (except for Jesus's cousin who was family). I love the Saints and Angels. As a kid, my church told me that Satan is an evil ugly monster who is all powerful, and he and his demons are trying to get my soul by constantly surrounding me telling me to do bad things, and I don't know if they are even there because they are invisible, and unlike the boogeyman, this is a real story. I was scared to sleep many times. That was scary, and stupid of them to tell kids stories like that. At least in Catholicism, kids can say a prayer to Michael everytime they get scared knowing he will come down and git some. They can also find specific tangible people they relate to in addition to who is in the Bible. In addition, I don't know of many Baptist churches that require the classes to do something important in your life like choose your religion, get married, have children, etc. I have many other reasons, but those are the main ones that come to mind. I tried to partake in the RCIA program this year, but I couldn't always make it there, and mass isn't happening yet. I still fear the social gathering too much, and I couldn't concentrate, even in the crying room, with my children who are 1 and 2. Until then, I'm going to try to do more and read more on the catechism and try her again next year.

As far as me, personally, I feel like I'm spiritually lacking in conversation. My mom is your basic neurotypical where she doesn't enjoy deep conversations. On Christmas Eve, I almost wrecked really bad, and it was a moment where I actually cried out to God out of fear and desperation, and I never actually cried out like that before in my life. There's other parts of context that makes this situation even more a big issue. When I was trying to talk about it with my mom on the phone, she started talking over me to a family member around her about her finishing an alcoholic beverage someone couldn't finish and she told them to stick in the fridge and she'd drink it later. Then after I patiently waited for that conversation to finish, she gets back with me and said she had to go, but blah blah blah about my daughter (the thing we talked about before I went in on the other subject) as if I never mentioned anything serious about my near death moment. I find it difficult to find people to talk to about these things because they either don't care or they don't know enough about the Bible. The local Priest is awesome for that one on one, and I loved finding someone to talk to like that, but I can't always escape my house whenever I need to talk. I depend on the phone and internet more for conversation. I will say, the Priest offered much more than any Protestant Pastor I ever talked to because he didn't judge me or argue. When I was wrong, he handled it with respect and understanding. But, I can't get any of that in mass, and mass would just make me ask more questions that I would like to discuss with someone like my Priest who has to be too busy to do so regularly. Not to mention I have a hard time with schedules right now in my life, i.e. appointments and being places on time.

Which just reminds me, I loaned him out my movie Dogma. I still don't know what he thought of it. I'm so curious as to if he were insulted by it or thought it was funny. See, I personally think God has a great sense of humor to make man in the first place, so I don't think God gets as insulted as many church members like to make the world believe. But then again, I also believe God is beyond ego and insults, although some of the things I see done in His Name has to be insulting, but I think that's what He means by "saying His name in vain." I'm sorry, but I believe things like the Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, and other cheap tactics to "minister and spread His word" is more of a commandment breaker than the guy that says GD a lot. Then, we get back to denial, which is common in any church.

I've always told people that i never find sanctuary in a church. That is still true. I also find it hard to find any real guidance. Some people are incapable of thinking on the level I think to really explain some things to me, even the things they do know better than me on. It's not that I think I'm smarter than the church as much as imagine thought to be a rubix cube, and while most people think on a certain side of that cube, I tend to think in a certain color. No church so far has been able to offer me anything valuable in a language I can comprehend because they can't get past the social etiquette or judgement long enough to communicate anything worth communicating, but The Church has come closest. Although, I have yet to really talk to a Rabbi, and I'm curious how that would go. I tend to be attracted to the OT more so than the NT, but I couldn't imagine life without Jesus as the Messiah. I guess I think no church has it right yet. They all got good and bad to them, but they still have yet to fully hit the nail on its head. Since I'm trying for accuracy here, I really think I'm better on my own.

But, my children are not, so I have to attempt this social stuff for them. Even worse, I know if I'm an outcast, then my kids will be too, so I actually have to try to win people over and be fake in a world where I'm dying to be myself. Maybe if I were wealthy, that would be easier. But I think as long as I'm not poor and do a lot of leadership type volunteer efforts and become an asset to The Church's goals like charity efforts, then I might be able to be respected enough for my children to receive it. But, my father was well respected in the Church community, and I think many people put up with me for that reason alone, but if he rubbed one the wrong way, my sister and I got most of the reprocussions. That's wrong, but that's how people are, and any church is defined by her people. I just don't know exactly how I'm going to play this out. I am a little bitter that I have to figure it out for sake of my children to be accepted. That is too far from what Christ intended.

Since I've seen a post referring to Santa Claus. I finally figured how I'm going to explain that to my kids. I'm going to say that Santa exists, but you can call her mom. As far as the real Santa (Spanish for Saint, which many Protestants can't figure that out), I will refer them to St. Nicholas. While that is more true than the Santa as many people know him, I got a feeling that will adversly affect the social etiquettes as it will tick a lot of people off, even your church going Christians who regularly lie to their children about such things and turn around and tell them it's a Commandment Breaker to lie. I just can't knowingly set the wrong example, and since hypocracy is one that really gets under my skin (even though I'm guilty of it as well), I can't add to the flame by setting that kind of example. I'm sorry if it calls a mom out with her kid on her lie, but that's why you shouldn't lie...duh. Especially about a fat guy who feeds people's greed. Talk about promoting gluttony.

But you can see how my mentality doesn't fly well in church. Sorry to go on and on. But like I said, what a question for me.

Do you mind if I ask what church it is, Keeno? Denomination or specific church.

I'm in Glasgow, and Church of Scotland. Individual congregations vary enormously in all sorts of ways, not only their attitude to people who are "different" for any reason.

I've never been in a church that was truly hospitable to outsiders ... unless they bring money, of course.

i've rarely found church communities to be inclusive of all. i walked away from organised religion in my early teens. i made a couple of attempts at re-entry, before realising that i was incompatible with the whole idea of organised religion. each to their own.

I belong to the United Methodist Church. I am actively involved in the church for which I am a member. I am the church organist and am treated with great respect. However, only a few members know that I am an Aspie. But the few that do know, including the minister, treat me the same as they always have.

I am also beginning my own ministry of hammered dulcimer music. I will be playing in my regional area and sharing stories of hope and inspiration. Among the stories I share include my two close calls with death and my having autism. Other stories include other people and how they have overcome great obstacles in their life by the grace of God.

I'm Jewish, not Catholic, but I think I can still answer here. The Rabbis and such treat me fairly well, but the community is not too accepting of my need to be alone. Jewish prayers traditionally take place in a minyan, or group of at least 10 men. It's very hard for me to be confined in a room with a bunch of people saying th same words over and over again. I get kinda shunned for being different and not conforming, (read: not wearing nice pants and a suit on Shabbos).

Hello Pastor! I am a member from the Church of the Nazarene (the headquarters are in Kansas, altough I never left my own country), that in turn is a methodist church.

First and foremost: I told few people that I think that I have AS (I have all the symptons that I found listed on internet, but noone wanted to diagnose me... I think that is because the ones that I asked for a diagnostic were already treating those symptons, and maybe fear that my parents would complain that they never noticed that I am not a NT), those people think that I claim to have AS to bring attention to myself, so I do not speak about that with anyone anymore.

The people that do not know that I have AS just think that I am crazy (yeah, literally), and often end harassing me or just ignoring me and other behaviour that I dislike. Or it happens the inverse, many people nearly workship me because of my high intelligence (altough I know that this is because they want my help in that time, or in a planned future, not because they really want my friendship).

In the church I joined several techincal ministeries while still being a child, the result was constant clashes with some people (that believed that a child is too idiot to turn a volume knob for example), and since that clashes never ended (I started at 9, with 19 there was still people that wanted me not working there, usually people that knew me and clashed with me since the time that I was 12 or 13), because of that I plainly dropped out, th enviroment was not anymore nowhere christian.

Now what I do is go to the church sometimes (the church where I go is in one city and I live in other city, thus I only go when I can travel), in the morning school I sit usually in a corner and stay quiet there, and inside the temple or I sit at the side of my father (if he is around... my mother is never near because she plays in the church orchestra, obviously I can not stay in the middle of the orchestra), or if he is not around I roam around randomly and quiet.

Read timothy or any of the books of the new testament. The catholic church, as it is now, is NOT what was described!! !! !! !!



FUNNY, then WHERE does latin, and the latin vulgate come in? Have you looked at this AT ALL!?!?!? A lot of serious protestant pastors study greek and hebrew. Catholics usually study LATIN, and it seems like even a lot of Jews don't really know hebrew.



At least most translations are close. The Catholic bible is basically approved by the catholics.

As for authors, people claim almost everything. There is EVEN a group that meets every year to claim that Jesus said less and less.



HOW do you figure? There hasn't even been a female pope. HECK, catholic priests are supposed to be CELIBATE!



Never mind the statements about being unclean!



Then again, the MEN would have been killed, and lost everything. The women DID have more support. And were the women even asked? Some disciples DID stay there, and only fled when things started to get bad.



YEAH, the bible doesn't say ANYTHING about saints and a pope. There IS a bit where he says "Peter, on this I will build my rock", or some such. Interestingly, peter IS derived from a term that in latinate languages means ROCK. SO, even if he meant what people claim, the meaning is VAGUE at BEST!



Interesting thing. Ha Satan is a HEBREW word that means something along the lines of "The Adversary".



So if I created a religion where you could recite a magic word to make you content with everything, keep you away from all demons, and have the bible written with your name in it, you would fal (er. go) for that!?



The things that attract people. WOW!



Yeah, Dogma was WIERD! GOD becomes a man(though God is really female in the movie), so he can play Skee-ball! He ends up being made unconscious by demon hockey players, but can't get to heaven because he is unconscious! The last scion has to prevent two damned angels from going through a "catholic" arch because the "priest" said that if anyone passes through at the opening that they will be forgiven of all sins. This would create a paradox because god said that what is bound on earth is bound in heaven, and supposedly gave the pope control of the earthly religious realm and this would create a paradox of eternally damned beings being forgiven. WIERD! And the supposed priest, who obviously doesn't take this seriously, blessed his golf clubs to help save the day.

If god exists, it IS how bruce describes him early in the "bruce almighty" film. Like a spoiled brat burning antenna off the ants to watch them grope blindly.

The LEGEND of santa, that I believe, is along the lines of the following paragraph from wikipedia:



If you will dare to claim what you did about santa, why not claim the same about nearly every other holiday, and the church itself!

BOY, that is SUCH a loaded word! I was at mott when "it" happened. I was at valley vinyard, same thing. I went to several vinyards, and even church on the way(They have a bible translation called the spirit filled bible!). I think I understand the stuff better than most.

BTW I have ALSO been at catholic, methodist, lutheran, and even jews for jesus, and went to two conservative jewish temples. My mother is catholic, and my father baptist. I have EVEN been at grace community!! !! !!

I don't know wether it is anhedonia, some internal contempt of humanity(Certainly NOT unwarranted!), the general lack of value of human emotions(AGAIN, NOT unwarranted), or what, but even when I seem to have a genuinely fun time, it just doesn't hold up to any reason, etc.... In any event, many churches are too unstructured and have general meetings, or NONE! The few exceptions I found seemed to break up to the dismay of several.

I went to hume lake perhaps 3 times. HECK, I was HAPPY to find that my father had Jim Rice work on his home. He's a good contractor, by the way. In case you don't know... http://www.brusharbor.com/ministries.html I liked hume lake, had a nice time, but AGAIN, I just don't seem any better for it.

I DID do my part. I was nice, uplifting, helped people move, helped people get back on their feet, fed the poor, diverted suicides, donated money/time, etc.... I would say I did more than 98% there.

OK, you wanted honest. You got a taste of the best and worst side of me in the two messages I put up here so far.

I often find that many people are ignorant of what they think they're following. If you think you know your religion because you attend some sort of church or whatnot, you're probably wrong.

There is no point for me to even think on a god. I have my sense of right and wrong and I don't need anyone to tell me what is okay and what isn't. I don't need some sort of idea of what is after life, because I'm okay with whatever idea there is. I'll be who I am, and I'm not going to let some higher power decide what that is.

I am only a suspected aspie at this point (waiting for insurance change at new year) but I can speak of my son with severe Autism.

I was raised a born again christian and the people I once went to church with are accepting in a very patronizing way. They are nice but the focus of too many conversations is on a p raying to heal him.

I was a quaker for several years but before my son was born month one had any special needs that were potentially disruptive of the silence but theuy were generally accepting of anuthing.

I have now turned my back on the faith completely and am a Buddhist. We are raising the kid as a UCC where my wife attends. They are very accepting. No one has even whispered the word demon...

Tell me PastorNate, what answers is it your honestly seeking?
what questions are you trying to find the words for?


You already know the answers, its all within you.

Last edited by Forsaken on 28 Dec 2008, 12:04 am, edited 3 times in total.