Please help me figure this out: Aspie, Bullying or Both?

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MariaRenee
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30 Dec 2008, 11:24 pm

I really could use some help figuring out how much my problems at work are directly the result of being an Aspie, and thus are unlikely to change if I seek employment elsewhere, or are the result of a bullying atmosphere at work. I think the problems could be a combination of both things, but it is very hard for me to trust my judgment about this because it has gone on for so long now and I've gotten to the point that I am in quite a bit of psychological pain. I start to cry when I get in the car to go home from work once in a while.

I have had on-going problems at work with being treated extremely unfairly, (but nothing that is ever documented, just done behind the scenes) and being bullied in different situations. I work in an office. I am in a professional position. I have worked there for 7 years.

It is unclear that I have Asperger's, but I relate in a major way to the testimonies of Aspies. I am self-diagnosed, and on-line tests give me a borderline score. My daughter, however, is autistic. She is 4 and looks like will end up with a permanent diagnosis of Asperger's (according to the criteria that allow for language delay in Asperger's.) My dad is sure that he has Asperger's, and believes one of my brothers has it. His sister's son, my cousin, is 12 and was just diagnosed wtih Asperger's.

My problems began when I was first hired as an Intern years ago. I had developmental work assignments that I had to present to the managers in a big, formal meeting. Those presentations went very well, at least technically. I am actually a decent public speaker and I'm very meticulous and thorough in my work, on top of just generally being smart. So, I'd do my presentations, go to meet with my supervisor, and the supervisor would say, "Well, we can't really find anything wrong with your work, but you need to improve your communication." I would be alarmed, and say, "How? Is my writing unclear? Were my presentation skills lacking in something" And she'd say, "No". So, I'd ask, "What is it?" She'd say, "You just need to communicate with the people you work with in your work group better." At this point, I would be thoroughly confused. I came in at 8. I turned on my computer. A person walked by my cube and said, "Hi", and I said "Hi" back. I started working. When I had questions, I asked them. I go out of my way to be polite and pleasant and friendly. What am I doing wrong?

So, I'd press for details, because I was so thoroughly confused and alarmed about doing something wrong that I just can't figure out, and it turned out that when I walked to the restroom I was looking at my feet. Or, I was tapping my pen in a meeting. Or, I didn't smile enough. I didn't talk to people first, they had to talk to me first. It made no difference that I am a genuinely kind and ethical person who always treats co-workers well, I didn't say something first. The fact that I prefer to look at my feet when I walking alone in the hallway to the restroom has been interpreted and gossiped about as my "bad attitude", by people. Ironically, my attitude is much better than the person who accused me of this.

And that's it, with the exception of outright lies that others have made up about me. For example, very recently there was a project where there were many people involved and little accountability. A problem came up and I was accused of sending out a finalized document without review. When this false accusation was made I addressed the issues I had been accused of with the accusers in a meeting. I got them together and said, "I really value our working relationship, and I just want to discuss this idea that I hadn't communicated with you on this, because I think I can show you that is a mis-understanding." I then went on to show them in black and white where the document had been sent to them 2 months before and reviewed. I expected them to be very grateful I had generously pointed out their misunderstanding and had sought so earnestly to reconcile our working relationship. Guess what they said, "I don't care about your proof, I don't want to see it," and then went on to accuse me other things I hadn't done. Such as, making a face in the meeting that was supposedly directed at someone. This was entirely untrue.

I explained they had misinterpreted my reaction, I was thinking about something else, and this woman told me she didn't believe me. She knew what I was thinking, and I didn't.

So, when I got into the car to go home, I just started to cry. I feel like it makes absolutely no difference what I do and what quality my work is I will be treated horribly and disliked. I have worked so, so, so, hard at builiding good relationships with these people. My boss has even told me that he can see how hard I am trying to do that.

This is not the extent of what has happened to me. I had a promotion deliberately blocked and opportunities blocked. Everything I say is twisted. I can trust nobody.

Before I got this job, I was always considered, "abrupt, business-like, meticulous, quiet", all of those things, but before I got this well-paying, post-college job, I was very, very valued.

I have been, I think, kidding myself for 7 years in every new assignment I take, thinking it will get better, and it never does. I


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31 Dec 2008, 12:31 am

I can only give you my opinion and my opinion is that the people where you work value the sociability of a person above their technical competence and job performance. Some places are just like this and they're not going to change. I've read enough posts from people complaining that superior job performance is second to sociability to realize I was lucky to have a job for many years where technical competence and performance were #1. As long as I could talk to people and get along with them, that was good enough. I did a have supervisor once who in a job review told me I wasn't social enough. I dismissed it though because the guy was known to spend more time socializing than working. :)

Fortunately I didn't have much trouble with bullying at work. I was familiar with it from my school days though. I made a decision that as an adult I wasn't going to put up with it. It cropped up a couple of times over the years and I told the bullies flat out that I wouldn't accept that kind of treatment and they'd better knock it off. If they didn't like the way I was doing my job they could take it to my supervisor or to human resources. It was a surprisingly effective way to stop it.



ValMikeSmith
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31 Dec 2008, 4:19 am

This thread appeared today and is very interesting.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt86992.html

Your co-workers are pecking you and trying to sit on your head on the totem pole. In the thread's first two paragraphs, the OP of that thread explains how he can screw up this game by pretending to be willfully ignorant of it AND stepping on everyone else who tries to step on him. It seems that no one cares how good your work is except yourself, and you have to go after everyone else as if their work sux, and if the guy who says you aren't social is socializing instead of working, and he's your boss, don't you think he should be fired for not doing any work? Here's where I should shut up, because I'm only telling you what I understand about this "social game" and I don't know the moves, but winning the game involves sitting on HIS head instead of kissing his butt while he goofs off.

The rest of that thread is scientific links that suggest that NT's brains are wired to play this game and support the thread OP author's theory of manipulating them to your advantage.

WARNING:If you need your job and will not risk upsetting the score nor losing it, then my post is very dangerous information for you to play around with. Maybe your brain wiring is only efficient at the work and cannot comprehend this social game. Maybe you have other choices maybe not, which you will not be a "social game loser" in, such as:
1.Finding another job that is only about work or is exactly what you want to do in life.
2.Start your own business doing exactly what you want to do in life.
Doesn't it make sense for a job to be about doing work for money?
You don't work at a social club, do you?
Can you succeed in a job that only rewards social skills?
Can you continue to do a job that only rewards social skills, if that is how it is?



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01 Jan 2009, 11:38 pm

You were tapping your pen? I think it's unusual for people to comment on such small things. Most people will be absorbed in their own work; they won't notice the minutiae of what you do. I can definitely relate to your experience, I had a job once where people accused me of doing things I didn't do. But, that was just one job. I've had others where nothing like that ever happened. I think it's time to start looking for a new one. They say they like you, so if I were you, I'd try to take some good references from it and move on. Obviously, this might not be a great time to change jobs, but it's worth seeing what else is out there.



MariaRenee
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02 Jan 2009, 8:09 am

pineapple wrote:
You were tapping your pen? I think it's unusual for people to comment on such small things. Most people will be absorbed in their own work; they won't notice the minutiae of what you do. I can definitely relate to your experience, I had a job once where people accused me of doing things I didn't do. But, that was just one job. I've had others where nothing like that ever happened. I think it's time to start looking for a new one. They say they like you, so if I were you, I'd try to take some good references from it and move on. Obviously, this might not be a great time to change jobs, but it's worth seeing what else is out there.


It does seem very strange, doesn't it? There is no doubt that I do have certain Aspie traits, like being mildly pedantic and abrupt, and sometimes avoiding eye contact, and being task-oriented rather than people-oriented, but none of those things to me really are all that pronounced.

It's not something that anyone commented on before in other jobs.


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03 Jan 2009, 1:56 pm

MariaRenee wrote:

This is not the extent of what has happened to me. I had a promotion deliberately blocked and opportunities blocked. Everything I say is twisted. I can trust nobody.

Before I got this job, I was always considered, "abrupt, business-like, meticulous, quiet", all of those things, but before I got this well-paying, post-college job, I was very, very valued.

I have been, I think, kidding myself for 7 years in every new assignment I take, thinking it will get better, and it never does. I


Maria, I'm sorry to hear of your story. Without getting into too much detail, I suspect that your organization's culture is overly presenation oriented (which, sadly, is now the norm at the top-end companies these days).



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03 Jan 2009, 2:37 pm

MariaRenee wrote:
I really could use some help figuring out how much my problems at work are directly the result of being an Aspie, and thus are unlikely to change if I seek employment elsewhere, or are the result of a bullying atmosphere at work. I think the problems could be a combination of both things, but it is very hard for me to trust my judgment about this because it has gone on for so long now and I've gotten to the point that I am in quite a bit of psychological pain. I start to cry when I get in the car to go home from work once in a while.

I have had on-going problems at work with being treated extremely unfairly, (but nothing that is ever documented, just done behind the scenes) and being bullied in different situations. I work in an office. I am in a professional position. I have worked there for 7 years.

It is unclear that I have Asperger's, but I relate in a major way to the testimonies of Aspies. I am self-diagnosed, and on-line tests give me a borderline score. My daughter, however, is autistic. She is 4 and looks like will end up with a permanent diagnosis of Asperger's (according to the criteria that allow for language delay in Asperger's.) My dad is sure that he has Asperger's, and believes one of my brothers has it. His sister's son, my cousin, is 12 and was just diagnosed wtih Asperger's.

My problems began when I was first hired as an Intern years ago. I had developmental work assignments that I had to present to the managers in a big, formal meeting. Those presentations went very well, at least technically. I am actually a decent public speaker and I'm very meticulous and thorough in my work, on top of just generally being smart. So, I'd do my presentations, go to meet with my supervisor, and the supervisor would say, "Well, we can't really find anything wrong with your work, but you need to improve your communication." I would be alarmed, and say, "How? Is my writing unclear? Were my presentation skills lacking in something" And she'd say, "No". So, I'd ask, "What is it?" She'd say, "You just need to communicate with the people you work with in your work group better." At this point, I would be thoroughly confused. I came in at 8. I turned on my computer. A person walked by my cube and said, "Hi", and I said "Hi" back. I started working. When I had questions, I asked them. I go out of my way to be polite and pleasant and friendly. What am I doing wrong?

So, I'd press for details, because I was so thoroughly confused and alarmed about doing something wrong that I just can't figure out, and it turned out that when I walked to the restroom I was looking at my feet. Or, I was tapping my pen in a meeting. Or, I didn't smile enough. I didn't talk to people first, they had to talk to me first. It made no difference that I am a genuinely kind and ethical person who always treats co-workers well, I didn't say something first. The fact that I prefer to look at my feet when I walking alone in the hallway to the restroom has been interpreted and gossiped about as my "bad attitude", by people. Ironically, my attitude is much better than the person who accused me of this.

And that's it, with the exception of outright lies that others have made up about me. For example, very recently there was a project where there were many people involved and little accountability. A problem came up and I was accused of sending out a finalized document without review. When this false accusation was made I addressed the issues I had been accused of with the accusers in a meeting. I got them together and said, "I really value our working relationship, and I just want to discuss this idea that I hadn't communicated with you on this, because I think I can show you that is a mis-understanding." I then went on to show them in black and white where the document had been sent to them 2 months before and reviewed. I expected them to be very grateful I had generously pointed out their misunderstanding and had sought so earnestly to reconcile our working relationship. Guess what they said, "I don't care about your proof, I don't want to see it," and then went on to accuse me other things I hadn't done. Such as, making a face in the meeting that was supposedly directed at someone. This was entirely untrue.

I explained they had misinterpreted my reaction, I was thinking about something else, and this woman told me she didn't believe me. She knew what I was thinking, and I didn't.

So, when I got into the car to go home, I just started to cry. I feel like it makes absolutely no difference what I do and what quality my work is I will be treated horribly and disliked. I have worked so, so, so, hard at builiding good relationships with these people. My boss has even told me that he can see how hard I am trying to do that.

This is not the extent of what has happened to me. I had a promotion deliberately blocked and opportunities blocked. Everything I say is twisted. I can trust nobody.

Before I got this job, I was always considered, "abrupt, business-like, meticulous, quiet", all of those things, but before I got this well-paying, post-college job, I was very, very valued.

I have been, I think, kidding myself for 7 years in every new assignment I take, thinking it will get better, and it never does. I


This is my advice and it may not work for the situation. I also behave in that way but in some situations its a social atmosphere not saying its hopeless but in the end you'll have to understand that even in working in that capacity people may not like you. There is no lengths you can go to change that if its that bad of a issue. That doesn't mean you have to quit but it means any attempts you make at overexerting yourself to accomodate them will be refused.

I know this might sound counterproductive but maybe its time to step back and completely unacoomodate them. I don't mean be rude or insult but just in general if someone accuses you of something let it roll off your shoulders. They may meet you when they see that your not lowering yourself (in a social value context) to meet their standards. Here are two examples below.

I was asked to direct another student's film project. It was about the 8th time we had messed up the shot due to problems with the camera man. Some people were ready to curse at the guy and I was accused of being too soft from the DP and the student who was working in a producer facility. I told everyone to get some drinks and I pulled the cameraman aside away from everyone he was visibly anxious (I don't usually pick up on these things but he was shaking).

I said "Dude I'm not trying to be a _____ here but your heads not in the game, I really need your skills right now and for you to be in the mindset to do this thing. If theres some difficulty your having and your not up to it today I can replace you with someone else. This shoot is stressful on all of us."

He turned to me with a glare and yelled " you know what your a _______ jerk you wanna replace me go ahead." At this point everyone turned and looked at us and I said "ok I'm a jerk" in a "so what" type fashion which provoked a laugh from everyone because they found it funny that I was unfazed. I said "Now can we shoot because basically this is really getting tedious and I want to get home and this is the last shot. Afterwards we can compare stories of how much a ____ I am." Everyone laughed and I guess it loosened up his nervousness he got the shot perfect. Afterwards he apologized profusely and every since them I was his "dawg." Everyone also left the shoot with a story to tell since I was not only unfazed by the incident but I had to ask them why they laughed because I didn't understand.

Morale of the story is basically that when he saw I wasn't going to bend over backwards for him. He suddenly thought I was such a cool guy he even sent me a x-mas card even though I'm all the way in arizona going so far as to ask some of my old friends who he wasn't real familar with for them. I wouldn't suggest the vulgar language in a professional atmosphere. Now story number 2.

I currently work in retail while finishing up school (I changed majors) I come to the back and I'm waiting for instruction. So one of the guys working back there yells "its nice someone gets to stand around when we are all working." The lower manger of sorts says yea expecting it to be him but they said no the long black hair dude. I ignored it by shrugging my shoulders.

Later they asked me to help them unload the delivery and so I go over to do it and I see an item with no other ones for a special section which contains stuff that doesn't leave the backroom. So I put it there and the team leader says to me " if your only going to take one box you might as well do something else." I said back to her "I see well I'm helping you guys out so if you don't need my help thats fine I got other stuff to do." As I walk away she stops me and is like "no I'm sorry I apologize we really need your help" I said "ok" with a shrug. So I did it with a few little snide comments that I didn't worry about.

Similarly the manager from before came and she told him that we were slow and he said "oh if thats right I'll pull em if they slowing you down" she made a similar reaction dening it and apologizing for the comment. At the end when they were finished they acted like I was their best friend offering to give me a group hug. The original person who talked about me not working now calls me the man and always trying to talk to me although we don't have much to talk about.

So basically its back to the original morale of the story. Its hard to imagine but sometimes when you back off and just show their opinions don't really affect you they come around because they realize that your not giving in to their request to lower yourself then they want to meet your expectations so they treat you better effectively lowering their social value.

This is why initially I always felt socialization was a power play and it turned me off to the idea. There is more to it then that but it does play a role in normal socializing and getting things done.