11 points about Israel,Lebanon and Palestinians

Post Reply New Topic

Actually I am vision impaired.

The Red Cross may well have said that, Amnesty International thought something very different was going on (but of course they're virulently anti-Israel) There are reports from Gazan hospitals of civilian with burns consistent with the use of white phosphorus, including civilians dieing of what had seemed to be only very minor burns:

the guardian

As it seems important to you to show that this white phosphorus wasn't used on civilians, can I take it that you concede it would be grotesque & immoral for Israel to have chucked this stuff about indiscriminately?

... Jews have got it in the neck at every turn, throughout the centuries. I'd say that justifies a little returning fire.

On this particular point i have to disagree strongly on principle (if that is what your meant).

The events of 100s of years ago cannot be used to justify any aggressive action in the present whatsoever.

I agree. Just because the Jews had 6 million of their people killed is no reason to kill innocent palestinians in mass numbers.

As it seems important to you to show that this white phosphorus wasn't used on civilians, can I take it that you concede it would be grotesque & immoral for Israel to have chucked this stuff about indiscriminately?

The Hamas types hurling rockets and unfortified villages have a bit to do with the killing. Since the Hamas types insist on using Mosques, Schools and Hospitals as fire bases and hide behind women's skirts and baby cribs there is no surprise that the number of collateral casualties will be rather high.

It goes like this: if a Hamas rocketeer is hiding behind 100 school children blast the rocketeers even if 100 children die in the process. It is called war. The Allies in WW2 nearly a million civilians since the Axis bosses insisted on locating factories in or near cities. It is called war.

Collateral Damage is one of the infelicities of modern warfare. Get used to it.

ruveyn

1) In the Middle East it is always the Arabs who attack first and always Israel that is defending themselves. This defense is called a reprisal.

2) Israel has the right to kill civilians. That is called "legitimate defense" , never terrorism.

3) When Israel kills civilians en masse, the western powers claim that it is more measured. This is called "reaction of the international community."

4) The Palestinians and the Lebanese have no right to capture soldiers of Israel inside military installations with sentries and combat posts. This is called, "Kidnapping of defenseless people."

5) Israel has the right to kidnap anytime and anywhere as many Lebanese and Palestinians as they want. Currently there are more than 10 thousand, 300 of whom are children and a thousand are women. No proof of guilt is needed. Israel has the right to keep kidnapped prisoners indefinitely, even if they are authorities democratically elected by the Palestinians. This is called "terrorist prisoners."

6) When the word Hezbollah is mentioned, it is compulsory in the same sentence to contain the words "supported and financed by Syria and by Iran."

7) When you mention "Israel" it is forbidden to make any mention of the words "supported and financed by the U.S." This may give the impression that the conflict is uneven and that Israel's existence is not in danger.

When referring to Israel, expressions that are prohibited: "Occupied Territories," "Violations of UN resolutions," "Violations of human rights" or "Geneva Convention."

9) Both the Palestinians and the Lebanese are always "cowardly," they are hidden among the civilian population, which does not want them. If they sleep in their homes, with their families, that gives them the name of "cowards." Israel has a right to destroy with bombs and missiles the neighborhoods where they are sleeping. This is called a "precision surgical action."

10) The Israelis speak better English, French, Spanish or Portuguese than the Arabs. Therefore they and those who support them must be interviewed more and have more opportunities than the Arabs to explain the present Rules of the Editorial Staff (from 1 to 10) to the general public. That is called "journalistic neutrality."

11) All those who are not in accordance with the Rules of Writing above are "highly dangerous anti-Semitic terrorists."

Both sides of this conflict are equally bloodthirsty, equally horrible, equally monstrous. Let's stop pretending that one side is virtuous and other is not.

Red Cross representative:

Please have your vision checked if you still missed this.
(Large type for the vision-impaired.)

Yesterday the military said it would launch an internal investigation. Israel's Ma'ariv newspaper reported yesterday that the Israeli military had now admitted using phosphorus munitions, but only in open areas.

Abu Shabaan, who was trained in Egypt, Britain and the United States and has been head of the Shifa burns unit for 15 years, said he and his staff had been stunned by the "unusual wounds" they found.

"It starts with small patches and in hours it becomes wide and deep and in some cases it reaches the point where even the general condition of the patient deteriorates rapidly and unexpectedly," he said.

Doctors had noticed a "very bad odour from the wound," he said. In many cases patients also suffered unexpected and severe toxicity, and had to be rushed into intensive care. In one case, a consultant anaesthetist suffered minor burns on his chest after burning material sprayed from within a patient's wounds during an ­operation.

Small burns were causing death. "A patient with 15% burns should not die, but we are seeing cases with 15% burns where they are dying," Abu Shabaan said. He believed, based on what he had read and what foreign doctors helping at the hospital had told him, that the wounds were consistent with phosphorus.

He described one patient, a three-year-old girl, who was sent for a scan because of a head wound: "After about two hours she came back, we opened the wound, and smoke came out from the wound," he said. Surgeons used forceps to pull out a substance from the wound that was "like dense cotton and it started to burn," he said. "The piece continued to burn until it disappeared." The child, who was from Atatra, in Beit Lahiya, in northern Gaza, died.

In the Shifa burns unit yesterday, Sabbah Abu Halima described how her house, also in Atatra, had been hit early in the war by several shells which killed her husband, Sa'ad Allah, and four of their children: Abdul Rahim, 14, Zayid, 10, Hamza, eight, and Shahed, who was 15 months old. She herself suffered severe burns to her right arm, abdomen, left leg and her feet, burns which doctors said appeared to be consistent with white phosphorus.

There were 16 members of the family in the house when an Israeli shell landed outside, close to a bedroom. Sa'ad Allah gathered his four children around him and they ran to another part of the house. A second shell then hit their living room, killing Sa'ad Allah and the three boys immediately. Another shell then landed, knocking Sabbah to the ground. "I fell on the ground and there was a fire. The room was full of smoke and it smelt very bad. Three times I heard my daughter say 'Mama, mama, mama', but I couldn't see her," she said. The infant daughter, Shahed, collapsed and died.

Funny how the surgical strike with a 'smoke grenade' killed so many people and also set fire to the entire United Nations relief supplies warehouse.