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kolrabi
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15 Dec 2005, 6:42 am

I'm in desepair. Yesterday the european parliament approved a directive to enforce the retention of data "generated by telephony, SMS and internet, but not the content of the information communicated" with a majority of 378 insane people against 197 people with brains. They say it's against terrorism. This is an unacceptable invasion of my privacy and feels exactly like when I was bullied in school. Someone else did something wrong and I get punished for it. :evil:

Why are people always like that? :cry: What will I do now? I feel like killing someone and thought of the following possible "solutions" (don't take them too serious):

  • Kill myself: No good. The trouble with being dead is that you are so busy non existing, that you don't have the time to enjoy it. And there are people that would miss me. :?
  • Kill the 378 idiots: No good. Belgium is too far away and the vote was anonymous so I will never know their names or whereabouts. And I'm too unorganized to do something like that. Of course they have a right to live, but they give a s**t about my rights, why should I care about their's? :twisted:
  • Kill some random innocent people: No good. They didn't do anything wrong and I'd probably just get punished for that. And I'd be just as bad as the parliament.
  • Get insane: This is probably what I'll do. I feel this urge to kill and it has nowhere to go. :shock:
  • Live with it: No. Why would I want to do that? It's the world that's wrong and sick and stupid, not me. :evil:
  • Destroy earth: Oh come on, this is a serious issue and I haven't found the big red button yet... ;)
Needless to say that none of those will change the result of the vote. Seriously though, what should I do now? The internet is my only connection to other people. Data retention is like breaking into my apartment and staring at me. To prevent that, I'd need to disconnect from the internet. But this is not possible. It's like a world is crumbling. Either a sadistic god created the universe and is laughing right now (Hmm.. how do I kill a god?) or life is a terrible accident. :cry:


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SB2
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15 Dec 2005, 8:01 am

They claim its because of terrorism?

9/11 was the greatest thing that happened for our unpopular president. he was allowed to institute a campaign of fear. And from that demonstrated that we are not safe without him or the theif of freedom and liberties ( HOMELAND SECURITY).

Niiiice, its just that people are so stupid, when they believe that big government is the only way to keep you safe.
Wrong! big government is the only way if you don't wish to think for yourself.

The moral of this opinion , is;

All legislation about terrorism is based in fear. Government uses fear to push their agenda. If you react to them with fear, then you are allowing them to control you. Fear is their desired intent.


I could go on and on and explain in detail, but currently i'm training myself not to do that.


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kolrabi
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15 Dec 2005, 8:15 am

SB2 wrote:
They claim its because of terrorism?


That's one aspect. They say it can be used to prevent other crimes too.

SB2 wrote:
All legislation about terrorism is based in fear. Government uses fear to push their agenda. If you react to them with fear, then you are allowing them to control you. Fear is their desired intent.


I don't feel fear. I feel anger. I feel hate. And I suffer from this. :?


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pooftis
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15 Dec 2005, 11:44 am

SB2 wrote:
They claim its because of terrorism?

9/11 was the greatest thing that happened for our unpopular president. he was allowed to institute a campaign of fear. And from that demonstrated that we are not safe without him or the theif of freedom and liberties ( HOMELAND SECURITY).
I could go on and on and explain in detail, but currently i'm training myself not to do that.


In my conspiracy theory mind I beleive this will come ot be like pearl harbor in the next 50 years, it didn't "happen" IMHO, it was let happen because he needed to distract from the economy, the stolen election and to fulfill his sick daddy issues by invading Iraq.


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Endersdragon
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15 Dec 2005, 11:55 am

pooftis wrote:
SB2 wrote:
They claim its because of terrorism?

9/11 was the greatest thing that happened for our unpopular president. he was allowed to institute a campaign of fear. And from that demonstrated that we are not safe without him or the theif of freedom and liberties ( HOMELAND SECURITY).
I could go on and on and explain in detail, but currently i'm training myself not to do that.


In my conspiracy theory mind I beleive this will come ot be like pearl harbor in the next 50 years, it didn't "happen" IMHO, it was let happen because he needed to distract from the economy, the stolen election and to fulfill his sick daddy issues by invading Iraq.


The one thing I dont get about this is what does he do, he puts a warning out he kills the economy even farther (due to people no longer flying) and it still doesnt do any good. He shoots the plane down and everyone asks if that was neccessarily. Now Clinton could have possibly stopped it by putting legislation through that would deny them entry into this country but then again maybe not. Oh and trust me Ive done more research on this then you :).

PS weve drifted a lil ways from the orginal topic.


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15 Dec 2005, 12:10 pm

Find like minded people and campaign for change.

Will it change anything? Who knows. But you have such passion on this topic it would be sad to have it waste away.

Fight (non-voilently) for your rights.

BeeBee



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15 Dec 2005, 12:29 pm

BeeBee wrote:
Find like minded people and campaign for change.

Will it change anything? Who knows. But you have such passion on this topic it would be sad to have it waste away.

Fight (non-voilently) for your rights.

BeeBee


Nah go to war! :gives you a legion of my penguin army: enjoy :)


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kolrabi
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15 Dec 2005, 12:54 pm

BeeBee wrote:
Fight (non-voilently) for your rights.


Unfortunately I don't know how to do something like that. I'm too unorganized to start a campaign and just signing some petition wouldn't be the least bit satisfying. I feel so powerless... :(

Endersdragon wrote:
Nah go to war! :gives you a legion of my penguin army: enjoy :)


Penguins are cool! :)

Linus Torvalds wrote:
Some people have told me they don't think a fat penguin really embodies the
grace of Linux, which just tells me they have never seen a angry penguin
charging at them in excess of 100mph. They'd be a lot more careful about what
they say if they had.


But that doesn't solve the problem, either... :?


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Mithrandir
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15 Dec 2005, 2:52 pm

Thats nothing, its been going on for a long time.

Have you heard about Echelon?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

Sometimes surveilence is a good thing, if they can catch people before they bomb another target, that is good.
I wouldn't worry about it unless there is something that you have done illegally. This will combat Racism, Child Porn Industry and Terorrism.

The most that they can do to someone suicidal is give him/her treatment. I don't think the government's will care about your posts.


Now what is it that really frustrates you the most?


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kolrabi
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15 Dec 2005, 3:53 pm

Mithrandir wrote:
Thats nothing, its been going on for a long time.


I know. But it gets worse and worse.

Quote:
Have you heard about Echelon?


Yes.

Quote:
Sometimes surveilence is a good thing, if they can catch people before they bomb another target, that is good.


But that never happens. London for example is one of the most surveilled cities in the world. But someone managed to place a bomb in the subway anyway. I know that some places need camera surveillance. And I understand they tap the lines of criminals to find out about their connections. But Surveillance reached a state where increasing the amount of it won't yield a higher prevention rate a long time ago. This new directive is useless to prevent crime significantly and is an incommensurable invasion of people's rights. How can anyone accept that?

Quote:
I wouldn't worry about it unless there is something that you have done illegally. This will combat Racism, Child Porn Industry and Terorrism.


Ah, you are one of the people that don't close the door when they use the toilet, because you don't to anything wrong, right? If they surveil me because only I might do something illegal on the internet, they say something like I'm a potential terrorist and I have to prove them that I'm not. Every citizen will now be a suspect. This is against something called "presumption of innocence", which isn't right. It is also an "arbitrary interference with my privacy".

Declaration of human rights wrote:
Article 11

(1) Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.

(2) ...

Article 12

No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.


And what if I want to understand the world and look up how a bomb works? Or if I buy something from an online chemistry store? Or if my friend's friend's friend has a radical website and I regulary visit an encrypted site on the same server? What if I do something illegal without knowing it? Did I mention the directive is vague enough to allow the entertainment industry to use the data? Did you know that most sites with lyrics are illegal now, because of copyright infringement? What if I want to sing along a song I am hearing and visit one of them? I haven't paid the industry money for the lyrics, so they will say I steal them. They will prove it with that data. Okay, maybe I'm overdoing this example a bit, but I hope you get the point. I can't understand why not everyone is like ":shock: WTF?!?!? :shock:" because of that. Why don't people care about their rights, they must be stupid? I mean, what's wrong with this planet? :cry:

Quote:
The most that they can do to someone suicidal is give him/her treatment. I don't think the government's will care about your posts.


That's why I am asking for advice how to cope with it.

Quote:
Now what is it that really frustrates you the most?


People like you who don't understand how serious bad the situation really is. :roll:


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Mithrandir
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15 Dec 2005, 7:43 pm

kolrabi wrote:
Mithrandir wrote:
Thats nothing, its been going on for a long time.


I know. But it gets worse and worse.

Quote:
Have you heard about Echelon?


Yes.

Quote:
Sometimes surveilence is a good thing, if they can catch people before they bomb another target, that is good.


But that never happens. London for example is one of the most surveilled cities in the world. But someone managed to place a bomb in the subway anyway. I know that some places need camera surveillance. And I understand they tap the lines of criminals to find out about their connections. But Surveillance reached a state where increasing the amount of it won't yield a higher prevention rate a long time ago. This new directive is useless to prevent crime significantly and is an incommensurable invasion of people's rights. How can anyone accept that?

Quote:
I wouldn't worry about it unless there is something that you have done illegally. This will combat Racism, Child Porn Industry and Terorrism.


Ah, you are one of the people that don't close the door when they use the toilet, because you don't to anything wrong, right? If they surveil me because only I might do something illegal on the internet, they say something like I'm a potential terrorist and I have to prove them that I'm not. Every citizen will now be a suspect. This is against something called "presumption of innocence", which isn't right. It is also an "arbitrary interference with my privacy".

Declaration of human rights wrote:
Article 11

(1) Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.

(2) ...

Article 12

No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.


And what if I want to understand the world and look up how a bomb works? Or if I buy something from an online chemistry store? Or if my friend's friend's friend has a radical website and I regulary visit an encrypted site on the same server? What if I do something illegal without knowing it? Did I mention the directive is vague enough to allow the entertainment industry to use the data? Did you know that most sites with lyrics are illegal now, because of copyright infringement? What if I want to sing along a song I am hearing and visit one of them? I haven't paid the industry money for the lyrics, so they will say I steal them. They will prove it with that data. Okay, maybe I'm overdoing this example a bit, but I hope you get the point. I can't understand why not everyone is like ":shock: WTF?!?!? :shock:" because of that. Why don't people care about their rights, they must be stupid? I mean, what's wrong with this planet? :cry:

Quote:
The most that they can do to someone suicidal is give him/her treatment. I don't think the government's will care about your posts.


That's why I am asking for advice how to cope with it.

Quote:
Now what is it that really frustrates you the most?


People like you who don't understand how serious bad the situation really is. :roll:


I will stand up for my rights. It is tough to live in this world.

I wonder how to balance security with rights?
The best security is people in the street with weapons, every other type of machine is secondary. The problem is a police state.

The one thing I will stand up for is anti-censorship expecially on the internet. Censorship seems like a horrible idea, thus I was relieved that those laws didn't harm that.

There are always loopholes and flaws in security system especially in the internet. If you are concerned for yourself then you can learn how to move around it (Hacking) without being noticed and best of all without comitting a crime. Avoiding police is not a crime (unless you enter something illegal).

There must be many people who agree with you, talk to them. If you make a rally for privacy rights then I will definately join you. An international rally around the world for privacy rights sounds like a cool idea. As long as my favorite stores can use security cameras and webcams are aloud. Please don't get rid of webcams. :wink:

I find the best way to change the world is a dialectal view. That means looking at the Pro's and Con's of the subject in a continued synthesis untill we find a balanced conclusion.
Marx wrote the Communist Maniphesto using that view.

I was simply showing you another view on the subject.
Now lets start finding ways that we can agree with one another to make a great society.


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kolrabi
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16 Dec 2005, 4:07 am

Mithrandir wrote:
I will stand up for my rights.


:D

Quote:
I wonder how to balance security with rights?


I always felt secure enough, thanks. I need my rights back now.

Quote:
The one thing I will stand up for is anti-censorship expecially on the internet. Censorship seems like a horrible idea, thus I was relieved that those laws didn't harm that.


Sadly censorship is a fact. But that's another story. :(

Quote:
There are always loopholes and flaws in security system especially in the internet. If you are concerned for yourself then you can learn how to move around it (Hacking) without being noticed and best of all without comitting a crime. Avoiding police is not a crime (unless you enter something illegal).


I know how to evade that, but unfortunately there are 456.953.257 other people living in the european union and I doubt that most of them do too. And I'm sure there soon a law will come to forbid doing that. :(

Quote:
There must be many people who agree with you, talk to them. If you make a rally for privacy rights then I will definately join you. An international rally around the world for privacy rights sounds like a cool idea.


How do I do that?

Quote:
As long as my favorite stores can use security cameras and webcams are aloud. Please don't get rid of webcams. :wink:


:)

Quote:
I find the best way to change the world is a dialectal view. That means looking at the Pro's and Con's of the subject in a continued synthesis untill we find a balanced conclusion.
Marx wrote the Communist Maniphesto using that view.


But finding a conclusion is useless if we don't find a way to convince the government to do the right thing.

Quote:
I was simply showing you another view on the subject.


Ah, okay. I think I misinterpreted it a bit. :)

Quote:
Now lets start finding ways that we can agree with one another to make a great society.


:D :) :| :( But how? I'm clueless...


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tomthecarpenter
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16 Dec 2005, 1:58 pm

the world is a mess. I dontn think its going to get better any time in my lifetime. I do get angry at the way it is ....... for me it comes down to this::::::
I owe ,I owe.
I have to fight , struggle to get the meds i need
most people bore me to oblivion
g.w.b. is an idiot but he's got the power
t.v. sucks, radio stations suck with all the commercials
It seems to be a nasty world.
Okay, so what i try to do is see it this way. _______I have it this way. I have today,....... all the B.S. doesnt really affect my daily living.. i still have to get up , bathe, feed myself, etc...... whether the word blows up or what. So my world is , my home, (trying to make it cozy) My back yard.( i got chipmunks, 3 species lizards, birts.too many too mention, squirrels, flying squirells, owls........ etc...
point is......... really,,, i gotta take care of me and the world can $^*)&%$&@
just for today......... im gonna put out some food for the possum who comes around every nite............ that how i been coping lately.... and coming to W.P. tom



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Deinonychus
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16 Dec 2005, 4:16 pm

The good news is that they are gathering so much data with all of this evesdropping that they can't process it all. That's the reason more surveillance doesn't decrease crime anymore. So keep on doing whatever you want, as long as it isn't a biggie like blowing people up or kiddie porn you should be safe. (Although it looks like consenting adult porn is next on Big George's list. He's just jealous 'cause he isn't getting any.)



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20 Dec 2005, 9:37 pm

joining a political campaign might help.
Also joining an NGO (Non-governmental-Organization) will help too.

Simply going with word of mouth will also help. Talk to people in the street, get a conversation going in clubs, cafe's etc. People will hear you out as the privacy advocate.

The best thing would be to write a book or make a website. That will require alot of work researching the topic but it will be necessary.

Finding a solution is necessary to change the world. Again, if you write a book and give a viable solution something will happen (especially if you're right). Simply being the head of a protest will get the topic noticed but we need a viable solution to change things.


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21 Dec 2005, 11:07 am

kolrabi wrote:
[*]Get insane: This is probably what I'll do. I feel this urge to kill and it has nowhere to go. :shock:


Go to a restaurant and order lobster ;).


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