the king is dead long live the King

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ruveyn
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21 Jan 2009, 10:46 am

Loborojo wrote:

Bye to the Bushes and welcome Obama. Hell, I am not even an American and got lumps in my throat, tears in my eyes, Obama spoke with Solomon wisdom!! !
He spoke to Hindus,Muslems, Christians and people without beliefs with the same respect. Well done, Obama!!

He invoked Duty and Sacrifice. Americans should be very afraid. Duty is a frequent neo-fascistic theme. Recall JFK "Ahhhhsk not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" An upright person rejects both sides of the proposition. He does not expect his countrymen to live or die for him, nor does he live for the sake of the country. He lives to pursue his own rational self interest.

After excoriating the Bush Administration for its fiscal irresponsibility, our New Fearless Leader proposes to throw money at all our problems. Some of it might even stick. This sound like the Same Old Keynsean nostrums that FDR and Lyndon Johnson proposed. Both prior attempts were failures.

I propose that we wait and see just what will become of Fearless Leader and his proposals, as he gets up and brushes the dust off.

P.S. I was very annoyed when the Designated Preacher recited -The Lord's Prayer-. Why? There are non-Christians paying taxes. Why do we have to be exposed to this verbal abuse.

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ruveyn
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21 Jan 2009, 10:49 am

Padium wrote:

The great depression actually ended because Hitler brought the world back into war, and jump started everyone's economy, as it created jobs for everyone. Had the world have not gone back into war, the economy would have been worse longer... And maybe that wasn't the case in the states, but it certainly was for most of the world.

Exactly right! It was not the FDR New Deal that saved the U.S. economy but the Third Reich. Without a war brewing in Europe it would have taken twenty years (maybe more) for the economy to recover.

In 1937 the U.S. economy was in the same bad shape that it was in 1932.

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2ukenkerl
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21 Jan 2009, 11:32 am

bluebandit wrote:

Well, I'm happy. YEAH, President Obama!! !

Seriously, though I really wanted a democratic president. If only because we'll need a couple Supreme Court justices, and I believe they should be liberal. We need balance.

The icing on the cake is that he's black and he's very popular. His race is important because it's tangible evidence of how the country has changed and still changing. Even when things are better, people often need to see that it is.

I think his popularity is important, if it inspires people. Hope is important to America. We do are best work as country when we are working towards a common goal. If people feel excited and proud as Americans, well that's the first step. (Also doesn't hurt if people around world feel better about the U.S. as well.)

He's NOT democratic, he is a democrat. That is a BIG difference! Most of the older justices are LIBERAL, so it is expected he will likely just MAINTAIN the balance that is ALREADY there! WOW, you admit you only wanted a BLACK there? Shouldn't a good person be PARAMOUNT!?

2ukenkerl
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21 Jan 2009, 11:40 am

ruveyn wrote:

Padium wrote:

The "new deal" is part of our current PROBLEM! They didn't take enough, and treated it like their own special little fund for EVERYTHING! What I give to SS is supposed to be MY money ON LOAN to the US government and they are supposed to PAY IT BACK TO ME WITH INTEREST! So what do they do? They give the money to EVERYONE, make up some story about how OTHERS are supposed to pay for me, and THEN act to get out of paying me until I am perhaps over 90yo!! !! ! So the "Social Security Trust Fund"(actual name used by BILL CLINTON on HIS budgets), has become just a PONZI SCHEME!

The US treasury was SUPPOSED to be a business to develop the US and be self supporting. It has become a SPOILED BRAT that uses the money for it's own desires.

Padium
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21 Jan 2009, 12:14 pm

2ukenkerl wrote:

And you call americans a race? Then I guess obama ISN'T an american, or am I black and don't know it?

American is a race, but in a different sense of the word. Back in the old old old days, you could generally tell exactly where a person was from by the colour of their skin/hair/eyes, but since then the world has become so interbred that it is impossible to tell with most whites, semi possible with blacks if you pay enough attention, possible with asians, possible with south americans for the most part, and I don't know if I am forgetting about any groups, but I probably am. Anyways, your nationality was your race, because the two were so strongly connected.

Loborojo
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21 Jan 2009, 12:32 pm

ruveyn wrote:

P.S. I was very annoyed when the Designated Preacher recited -The Lord's Prayer-. Why? There are non-Christians paying taxes. Why do we have to be exposed to this verbal abuse. ruveyn

I grant you that, as much as I objected to invoking prayers I also objected to him patting Bush on the back, though, when they parted. But that's called diplomacy, isn't it?

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Padium
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21 Jan 2009, 12:36 pm

Throw in that the Christian religion was the original religion of the country formaly, and you get a thing that is inseperable from the history of the country and has become a ritual with no actual religious meaning, even if it has its roots in religion and is exactly word for word taken from a religion.

Loborojo
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21 Jan 2009, 12:42 pm

Padium wrote:

I beg your pardon? What about native American culture and religion before you whities even got there, or are you teaching history like in Sri Lanka, where they say to schoolkids that before the arrival of Buddhism to the island nothing existed (denying the Aboriginal Veda people's existence?

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bluebandit
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21 Jan 2009, 12:45 pm

2ukenkerl wrote:

bluebandit wrote:

I meant democrat, at the time I just couldn't remember quite how to phrase it. Democrat President still seems to clash but whatever.

As for your second point, that's what I wanted, the balance maintained. I felt a Republican president would unbalance the Court. I didn't mean the court is currently unbalanced.

Lastly, where did I say I only wanted a black person? I did say I only wanted a democrat. I also said he's being black was "icing on the cake". Maybe I should explain that.

In the context of Obama as a human being, politician, man, or any other "hat" he may wear, his race is unimportant to me. I simply don't care, I see people not, race. However, it be absurd for me not to acknowledge, historically, the problem of race has been in this country. That a generation still alive today, experienced segregration and fought against it to acheive equality as we have it now. For many, yesterday, was an important part of the dream fulfilled. I'm not an idealist, and although I wish race didn't matter and behave that way, I know that in the world, it still does. I'm hoping in my lifetime it won't.

MissConstrue
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21 Jan 2009, 12:55 pm

You whities? :lol:

My mom's side of the family happens to be of Native American descent. I think you need to be careful with mixing the past with the present Loborojo. Although I do agree that what happened on American soil was unfair. Not all americans are of white heritage these days. It's now mostly a melting pot mixed in with other generations of immigrants.

I also have to say that yes I'm glad Obama was elected but I don't think he can fix what has already happened. It's going to take more than one elected politician to fix things. The congress for instance. I think your argument is confused with racism. True there are people who are basing this only because he is black. I think it's a historical moment and I think we should be proud that he was elected on his character not on his race. But you have to realize that America is not a very democratic society when it comes to elected officials passing bills and putting tax dollars into things that should be in the right place.

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2ukenkerl
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21 Jan 2009, 1:43 pm

Loborojo wrote:

Padium wrote:

He DID say COUNTRY, and NOT continent! The indians were NOT the first members in the country, even if they WERE on the continent first. BTW Indians ARE talked about in school, and they had DIFFERENT religions. You DO know that there were a LOT of DISTINCTLY different indians, right? HECK, some even had light colored eyes and hair! They had different cultures, language, foods, AND religions!

BTW The indians were on the CONTINENT first! That does NOT mean the area where the U.S. is! It means where MEXICO, CANADA, a few others, AND the US are! So many of you guys forget that.

Loborojo
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21 Jan 2009, 2:59 pm

only a few indians in the USA? Right. To begin with when you celbrate thanksgiving, just rembember how you slaughtered them in Jamestow... and how the pilgrims were saved from starvation before they slaughtered them.
Or how only 200 winters ago black pilgirms smashed native american babies against brick walls because they were heathen...

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Padium
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21 Jan 2009, 3:08 pm

As true as it is that the first people on the continent were the natives, it was the white christians that formed the states, and they formed that country when they broke off from the British colonies when declaring independence. Officially at the time they were a white Christian state and only white men were considered full citizens with voting power, the majority of which were Christian, and that is why there is such strong historical ties between the US and Christianity. As at the time, natives were citizens of their tribes first and the US second, their opinion at that point in history didn't matter. You can still recite the Lord's prayer as a part of parliment, and have seperation of church and state, simply because it is a meaningless historical ritual based in the fact that the country itself was initially a Christian state. The prayer itself has no meaning other than its symbolic meaning in a historical context for the country. If you are Christian, in the context of the nation, it still has no meaning, and is just a ritual. If you happen to be at church, then it has religious meaning.

Loborojo
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21 Jan 2009, 9:03 pm

Padium wrote:

if it is meaningless then why persue it?

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2ukenkerl
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21 Jan 2009, 9:20 pm

Loborojo wrote:

First of all, I never hurt ANYONE! The pilgrims did NOT slaughter the indians. And I doubt pilgrims could even safely get their hands on indian babies, let alone throw them against walls. MAN, you have ODD ideas! YEAH, americans did a LOT of bad things to the indians, took land, killed animals, etc.... But the indians were alive and well LONG after the time you make it sound like there was such wholesale slaughter.

Maybe you should get your facts straight. Just look at geronimo, for example!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geronimo

YEAH, I already know what you will pick from this, but REALIZE that this indicates that the indians existed in about a pure a state as you could expect over a HUNDRED years after you seem to think they were obliterated. ALSO, note how he got his name, and WHO he fought!

Loborojo
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21 Jan 2009, 9:29 pm

2ukenkerl wrote:

Loborojo wrote:

this show how ignorant you are about your own native his(white man's) (story), ever heard of Bury my heart and wounded Knee, too bad it isn't on the obligatory literature in your high schools, and maybe you didn't know how long Leonard Peltier (AIM leader) has been in jail on false charges (your American nelson Mandela, victim of Apartheid in America).

You know nothing about American Indian history at all, I gather

yes, teh Black Pilgrims were the worst that ovculd ever happen to them, by the way watch the Bury my heart movie made by HBO based on the book. The genocide silently continues, Lakota children continue to be ripped away from their families and are experimeted upon by the pharmaceutical industry.

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