Simplifying Christianity and its Inverse(Satanism)

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Henriksson
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28 Mar 2009, 5:40 am

Sand wrote:
z0rp wrote:
Some Christians also claim dinosaur fossils are God testing their faith. :lol:


God is quite a trickster isn't he? He actually created everything, fossils, old people, the Bible itself l and the whole universe last April Fools Day and is nudging St.Peter with his elbows and chuckling over the idiots who bought it.

No, wrong. HRG's cat keeps destroying and recreating the world again every Thursday. :wink:


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28 Mar 2009, 9:18 pm

Has anyone else ever noticed that Christians can become extremely vocal when others challenge the validity of their religion, but that they also grow strangely silent when challenged to actually do something that could immediately validate everything they've said?

The Christ I admire - it's the Christians I can't stand.


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Sand
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29 Mar 2009, 12:12 am

It seems very strange that Dante is so often referred to as an expert on Hell as if his poetry were brought down from a mountain top inscribed in stone tablets.



zerooftheday
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29 Mar 2009, 3:22 am

Fnord:

What do you expect? I freely admit to basing my faith on prayer, introspection, and a book written about a guy who died almost 2,000 years ago. Your statements that no scientific evidence supports that, often elicit protests from Christians who aren't used to being argued with. So yeah, they'll get all hot-headed.

Then atheists throw out some inane demand that God show up immediately and alter reality in front of you. Do you really expect a conversation after that? We know He doesn't work like that, and if He granted your demand for a personal reality-alteration and turned your left foot into cheese, then instead of believing you'd just think He was an as*hole. Even though he would have done exactly as you asked.

No, I can't prove it, and no, I'm not going to ask God to show up at your door and turn your left foot into Swiss cheese. He could do it, but I don't think it'd take something that drastic. But you'll probably take that as proof He doesn't exist, since you're so overwhelmingly important that He'll throw aside the other plans He has to convert you and show up in person. Which would actually kill you, according to the Bible, what with the sinful nature humans have, and the brain-melting anti-sinful nature He has.

Some atheists, from what I've seen here, mostly base their belief on a whole lot of science that other people have done, and decide that from what other people have agreed is true, there isn't any evidence of God. So they insult us, then demand the proof they know we can't provide, and feel all warm and fuzzy since they've defeated another idiot Christian. At least, I hope they feel all warm and fuzzy, since it doesn't bother us after about 15 minutes, if that.



Sand
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29 Mar 2009, 3:50 am

zerooftheday wrote:
Fnord:

What do you expect? I freely admit to basing my faith on prayer, introspection, and a book written about a guy who died almost 2,000 years ago. Your statements that no scientific evidence supports that, often elicit protests from Christians who aren't used to being argued with. So yeah, they'll get all hot-headed.

Then atheists throw out some inane demand that God show up immediately and alter reality in front of you. Do you really expect a conversation after that? We know He doesn't work like that, and if He granted your demand for a personal reality-alteration and turned your left foot into cheese, then instead of believing you'd just think He was an as*hole. Even though he would have done exactly as you asked.

No, I can't prove it, and no, I'm not going to ask God to show up at your door and turn your left foot into Swiss cheese. He could do it, but I don't think it'd take something that drastic. But you'll probably take that as proof He doesn't exist, since you're so overwhelmingly important that He'll throw aside the other plans He has to convert you and show up in person. Which would actually kill you, according to the Bible, what with the sinful nature humans have, and the brain-melting anti-sinful nature He has.

Some atheists, from what I've seen here, mostly base their belief on a whole lot of science that other people have done, and decide that from what other people have agreed is true, there isn't any evidence of God. So they insult us, then demand the proof they know we can't provide, and feel all warm and fuzzy since they've defeated another idiot Christian. At least, I hope they feel all warm and fuzzy, since it doesn't bother us after about 15 minutes, if that.


But the main concern is how can an all powerful entity be so dumb as not figure out how to convert people after thousands of years of trying. Maybe I couldn't figure out how to make everybody Christian but how can you be so disdainful of God's capability? If some entity turned my foot into cheese I would suspect more it came form a powerful technological interstellar civilization with a strong taste for cheese rather than it was God. That seems far more likely to me.



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29 Mar 2009, 8:24 am

Satanism is simply the inverse of Christianity, and it intentionally believes in things simply because they are considered a sin in Christianity, even though these things lead to no good end.

I consider myself an independent Christian. This gives me the perspective to see the flaws in organized Christianity, while still being faithful to my beliefs. The flaws I've seen run very deep, and while they are slowly fading it will be a long time before Christianity as a whole becomes what it always should of been, a religion of kindness and tolerance rather than one of fear and willful blindness.

It is my hope that Christianity (and all religions for that matter) will look at science and say "We'll deal with the why, you can deal with the how", and science will look back and say "That's how it's always worked".


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TallyMan
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29 Mar 2009, 8:27 am

Sand wrote:
If some entity turned my foot into cheese I would suspect more it came form a powerful technological interstellar civilization with a strong taste for cheese rather than it was God. That seems far more likely to me.


No, more likely you've got a really mean athletes foot fungus infection. :P


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Sand
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29 Mar 2009, 8:28 am

The_Cucumber wrote:
Satanism is simply the inverse of Christianity, and it intentionally believes in things simply because they are considered a sin in Christianity, even though these things lead to no good end.

I consider myself an independent Christian. This gives me the perspective to see the flaws in organized Christianity, while still being faithful to my beliefs. The flaws I've seen run very deep, and while they are slowly fading it will be a long time before Christianity as a whole becomes what it always should of been, a religion of kindness and tolerance rather than one of fear and willful blindness.

It is my hope that Christianity (and all religions for that matter) will look at science and say "We'll deal with the why, you can deal with the how", and science will look back and say "That's how it's always worked".


Why and how are not always easily and rationally disconnected.



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29 Mar 2009, 8:38 am

Sand wrote:
Why and how are not always easily and rationally disconnected.


A mistake that a lot of people make is to assume that a "why" question is always valid. Questions relating to "how" are about causality in physical, logical terms. "Why" seems intrinsically associated with choice and moral reasoning.

It is perfectly valid to ask a human "why" they did something. It is not a valid question to ask "why" a rock dislodged from a cliff and rolled down and maybe killed someone who was walking past at the time. "how" it came to fall is valid, it would explain the physics and mechanism whereby it became dislodged and fell.
It would also be valid to ask "why" the person was walking there at the time or "why" the owner of the cliffs had not secured them with netting or provided barriers to stop people walking below them.

To attach "why" to physical events not involving human decision making is anthropomorphism.


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Sand
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29 Mar 2009, 8:49 am

TallyMan wrote:
Sand wrote:
Why and how are not always easily and rationally disconnected.


A mistake that a lot of people make is to assume that a "why" question is always valid. Questions relating to "how" are about causality in physical, logical terms. "Why" seems intrinsically associated with choice and moral reasoning.

It is perfectly valid to ask a human "why" they did something. It is not a valid question to ask "why" a rock dislodged from a cliff and rolled down and maybe killed someone who was walking past at the time.
However it would be valid to ask "why" the person was walking there at the time or "why" the owner of the cliffs had not secured them with netting or provided barriers to stop people walking below them.


Religious leaders throughout history have frequently attributed neutral events to the intent of their particular God and even today the Katrina hurricane has been tied strangely to the sexual behavior of certain quarters. The more that science has demonstrated that disastrous events have no moral considerations the less religion can frighten people with a vengeful god. When the discourse penetrates to the motivations of people committing criminal acts there are great differences of opinions as to where to separate why and how.



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30 Mar 2009, 10:23 am

After my Gaia thread I feel it neccesary to point out this is only my opinion based on my own experience and using my own limited intellect, I am neither condemning or condoning anyones beliefs.

I agree with the people who commented that Satanism is an opposite reaction to certain types of organized Christianity. I think it's important to differentiate between this and true Paganism or other Earth based beliefs and practices demonized by the less enlightened. I would go further and say that much in the church is an opposite reaction to what it 'percieves' as Satanism. Many years ago I was in a Christian based drug rehab and I heard more talk about Satan and the Devil and spiritual attack and warfare than about God or Love. It's as if everyone there saw too many MTV style rock videos or horror films. Let's face it the Bible even says God made good and evil and he is on speaking terms with his so called enemy.

Another point, has anyone read the recently discovered lost gospels? It's clear why they were left out when the Catholics first canonized the Bible. They are much more in line with Gnosticism (the more educated will know they were persecuted and killed by the early Catholic Churches leaders). Also they strongly support the fact that the early Christians largely believed in reincarnation and sin/karma based rebirth till a soul was ready for Salvation. From what I've read I don't think everybody was meant to understand many of the teachings of Jesus and I don't think it is meant to be spread like random carpet bombing. Much I think is too profound to be told to just anybody which is why parables were used. Buddism and other Eastern religions and philosophys use similar layered teachings to cater to an individuals ability to comprehend and not get 'freaked out' or confused. (The book of Revelations very nearly didn't make it).The Gnostics were big on inner knowlege, meditation and knowing thy self, this brought them in conflict with the universalists (catholic tranlated means universal) who were under the thumb of the Romans who wanted to water down Christianity in order to control the masses. So we have the Roman Catholic Church a weak parody of the real thing, sad. By the time of Luther and the reformation too much damage was done to its reputation with other world religions, not least of all the Pagans and Muslims.

Hope I haven't got anything too wrong, and my objective is to clarify not confound, or at least help people see there is always room for an alternative third opinion.


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Fnord
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30 Mar 2009, 10:40 am

Fnord wrote:
... I want proof, meaning any one or more of the following...

1. A face-to-face meeting with your God - Father, Son, or Holy Spirit; whichever you can arrange, and as long as it does not require anything as inconvenient as my death.

2. A miracle directed towards my person or immediate vicinity - healing, regeneration of lost limbs or organs, water into wine, a single crumb of bread feeding several people, et cetera.

3. A sign for all to witness - the Earth stops spinning for 24 hours, the Red Sea parting wide enough and long enough to drive a convoy of buses from one shore to the other, a plague of locusts descends upon all Islamic countries, et cetera.

4. My ex-wife apologizes to me and takes all the blame upon herself for everything that went wrong between us (maybe this should be included in "2. A miracle...").

... occurring within the next 60 hours following the submittal of this post.

Well, folks, the deadline passed about 3-1/2 hours ago, and none of the events came to pass, nor did anything like them occur.

:( I feel much disappointment, but we're dealing with religion, so that's "par for the course."

Now why did none of these events come to pass? Perhaps...

... No religionist read my post; or if they did, they decided to not take up the challenge.

... Attempts were made to make at least one of the stated events occur, but something didn't go right (i.e., couldn't find a virgin and three wise men, prayer line kept putting people on 'hold,' someone ran off with the collection plate...).

... The religionionists were too busy making up their own excuses in advance as to why they couldn't or wouldn't follow through to ever get around to actually trying.

... The religionists know as well as I do just how much of a scam organized religion is.

Oh well, it's a new day ... better to deal with today and let yesterday bury itself.

:D


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30 Mar 2009, 11:42 am

Fnord wrote:
1. A face-to-face meeting with your God - Father, Son, or Holy Spirit; whichever you can arrange, and as long as it does not require anything as inconvenient as my death.

1353 W. Valley Dr., LA, Come alone.

Fnord wrote:
2. A miracle directed towards my person or immediate vicinity - healing, regeneration of lost limbs or organs, water into wine, a single crumb of bread feeding several people, et cetera.

If you're willing to trust him enough, why don't you cut off your arm prior to journeying there.

Fnord wrote:
3. A sign for all to witness - the Earth stops spinning for 24 hours, the Red Sea parting wide enough and long enough to drive a convoy of buses from one shore to the other, a plague of locusts descends upon all Islamic countries, et cetera.

How about shaping a cloud to look something like spaghetti and meatballs? He seems to favor doing that for whatever reason.

Fnord wrote:
4. My ex-wife apologizes to me and takes all the blame upon herself for everything that went wrong between us (maybe this should be included in "2. A miracle...").

Well if FSM, I mean God, made everyone to have free will, he cannot compromise your ex-wife's. Unless you make a little church donation.. Then maybe we can arrange something.[/quote]


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Henriksson
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30 Mar 2009, 11:45 am

Quote:
Quote:
2. A miracle directed towards my person or immediate vicinity - healing, regeneration of lost limbs or organs, water into wine, a single crumb of bread feeding several people, et cetera.


If you're willing to trust him enough, why don't you cut off your arm prior to journeying there.

Er, have you?


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Fnord
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30 Mar 2009, 12:14 pm

z0rp wrote:
Fnord wrote:
1. A face-to-face meeting with your God - Father, Son, or Holy Spirit; whichever you can arrange, and as long as it does not require anything as inconvenient as my death.

1353 W. Valley Dr., LA, Come alone.

Seems to be an invalid address.

z0rp wrote:
Fnord wrote:
2. A miracle directed towards my person or immediate vicinity - healing, regeneration of lost limbs or organs, water into wine, a single crumb of bread feeding several people, et cetera.

If you're willing to trust him enough, why don't you cut off your arm prior to journeying there.

I'm already missing parts of my body that could be regenerated. No need to cut off anything more.

z0rp wrote:
Fnord wrote:
3. A sign for all to witness - the Earth stops spinning for 24 hours, the Red Sea parting wide enough and long enough to drive a convoy of buses from one shore to the other, a plague of locusts descends upon all Islamic countries, et cetera.

How about shaping a cloud to look something like spaghetti and meatballs? He seems to favor doing that for whatever reason.

To subjective - a cloud that looks like FSM to you may look like a kittty and a bunny taking a nap together to me.

z0rp wrote:
Fnord wrote:
4. My ex-wife apologizes to me and takes all the blame upon herself for everything that went wrong between us (maybe this should be included in "2. A miracle...").

Well if FSM, I mean God, made everyone to have free will, he cannot compromise your ex-wife's. Unless you make a little church donation.. Then maybe we can arrange something.

Oy gevaldt! ... "Make a donation" ... Typical religionism at work! :roll:


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30 Mar 2009, 3:35 pm

z0rp wrote:
Fnord wrote:
1. A face-to-face meeting with your God - Father, Son, or Holy Spirit; whichever you can arrange, and as long as it does not require anything as inconvenient as my death.

1353 W. Valley Dr., LA, Come alone.

Fnord wrote:
2. A miracle directed towards my person or immediate vicinity - healing, regeneration of lost limbs or organs, water into wine, a single crumb of bread feeding several people, et cetera.

If you're willing to trust him enough, why don't you cut off your arm prior to journeying there.

Fnord wrote:
3. A sign for all to witness - the Earth stops spinning for 24 hours, the Red Sea parting wide enough and long enough to drive a convoy of buses from one shore to the other, a plague of locusts descends upon all Islamic countries, et cetera.

How about shaping a cloud to look something like spaghetti and meatballs? He seems to favor doing that for whatever reason.

Fnord wrote:
4. My ex-wife apologizes to me and takes all the blame upon herself for everything that went wrong between us (maybe this should be included in "2. A miracle...").

Well if FSM, I mean God, made everyone to have free will, he cannot compromise your ex-wife's. Unless you make a little church donation.. Then maybe we can arrange something.
[/quote]



I wanna see a cloud with the face of Jesus Christ on it facing perpindicular to the ground. Have it form, and then dissapate.