Debunking Chick Myths

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There seems to be an ongoing trend in this forum, specifically, (hence placement) of men not understanding that females are humans too. I would like to make a thread here to debunk some of these myths.

1. FEMALES, ESEPCIALLY FEMALE ASPIES BUT FEMALES IN GENERAL, CAN ALSO HAVE TOUBLE GETTING INTO RELATIONSHIPS. Perhaps it is easier for us to get sex, but it's just as hard for us to find some kind of viable relationship beyond sex if we want one. Societal rules for dating are confusing for Aspies and NTs alike (I know, as the designated "male platonic friend" of several guys- both now, which is fine, and when I was single, which sucked, that male and female NTs can also be hopelessly confused).

2. FEMALES DO NOT "OWE" YOU A DATE, ANY MORE THAN YOU "OWE" THEM ONE. If a woman is not interested in you, she doesn't have to date you. If you're not interested in a woman, you don't have to date her. There is no infringement of rights or misconduct involved in not being interested in someone. Nobody has the "right" to be dating someone; however, if you're in a relationship, you DO have the right to be treated well (not, of course, "just the way you want to be treated," but to be treated fairly and kindly). The same goes for friendships- you do not have the "right" to have friends. You have the right to be treated civilly. If you want friends, a girlfriend, or a boyfriend, you have to -work- to get them.

3. FEMALES ARE HUMAN! I don't know why this seems to be overlooked so often. We come in many varieties. Some of us are nasty, horrible, and shallow. Some of us are kind, warm, and intelligent. We come in all shapes, sizes, and personality varieties. We don't "always" do anything. We're not clones of each other. Perhaps even more importantly, we're not goddesses who possess ultimate power over men. ((See debunk 1))

This is all that comes to mind for me at the moment but if any other people would like to add to this, please do- I probably will later.

((I'm also expecting some flaming from people, saying "Oh yes all females are alike" or some re-bunking variant, though I'd like the be wrong in that.))

What exactly has inspired this rather silly thread? We know women are humans, lmao. Regarding that first point, girls have trouble getting into a proper steady relationship, I don't debate that. There are, though, a lot of variables. In terms of trying to find a serious relationship, through extroverted activities such as clubbing, partying, dancing, et al, it is harder for a guy to get a girl to give them a chance, than for a girl to get a guy to give them a chance. It is just the nature of the mating game in that sort of situation. Past that point and in other situations, I think it gets just as hard no matter what gender you are.
No debate on 2, but I would like to debate on 3. It is the nature of the mating game for the guy to offer and the girl to have the power to accept or reject. You may be human, you may be warm and caring or shallow and cruel, but regardless, the decision is generally put in your court and not in ours. Short of forcing the issue, it is always the burden upon you to decide how far to let a relationship go. This also impacts upon the first point.

With some of threads I've seen about guys whining about women recently, I don't think that some of the guys on here have the same amount of common sense as you do Danlo. I just read one thread today about how some girls weren't giving some guy attention when he smiled at them. There's probably a bajillion reasons why, but some guys like to come to conclusions(and narrowminded ones at that) very quickly.

Although it's true that women have more "relationship initiative" than men, that doesn't necessarily help. The problem is that, while it's easier to find a man interested in them, it's not any easier to find a good man than it is for a man to find a good woman.

And it also doesn't help with the issue, common to both men and women, of being attracted to people who aren't good for you. If you're simply not attracted to the kind of person who would lead to a healthy relationship, no amount of control is going to help.

And third, extroverted "mating game" scenarios where women have the upper hand, such as bars, are rarely the source of quality relationships. How many people do you know who say, "Yeah, we were totally wasted and hooked up in a bar one night, and lived happily ever after?"

I have a feeling part of the "grass is greener" feeling between men and women stems from the fact that they often want different things. Men tend to want no-strings sex more than women, and so they're jealous of the fact that it's much easier for women to obtain sex than men. Women, on the other hand, tend to focus more on the relationship side, so they get annoyed when men talk about how much easier women have it, because they know that's not really true, at least in the ways that matter to them.

Jeremy

I agree with you on the third point, but I'm going to debate the first two.

Girls don't have much trouble at all getting into a relationship. Any girl that wants a boyfriend will have one. Of all the girls I know in the 16-24 age range, about 99% of them have boyfriends. It is always guys that have to develop the guts to ask a woman, and women have it easy - they just pick the guy that likes them that, as David DeAngelo would say, is the least "wussy". I maintain that men have a much harder time than women in this area.



Of course I have to work to get a friend, but as a human being I should be entitled to have the same level of social life as any other person, regardless of Asperger's. Having Asperger's should not make me any less worthy of being treated like a human, and I should have an equal shot at a relationship with everyone else. Is rejection part of the game for NTs? Absolutely. But, the odd success is also part of the game, and as someone with AS this is a problem that needs to be overcome, and whatever crap women are being taught about people who are "different" has got to stop.

This "rights" thing extends to rights for all handicaps. Someone in a wheelchair is entitled to be treated the same way as all others - that's why we have wheelchair ramps and elevators.

Now I'm going play devil's advocate for a moment: there are also tax advantages to being able to have a lifetime partner - that was one of the premises behind allowing same-sex marriage in Canada.

If they could TELL us what the problem is, then maybe they wouldn't have to put up with it. Like I've said before, a guy with Asperger's is every woman's worst nightmare, because women LOVE body language, and women get extremely annoyed when men don't see body language. If they could just understand and accept for once that some guys don't have the inate ability to see and understand body language, then they would know that they have to tell the guy what is going on, and there is less grief for both parties involved.

I also want to address one other point made here - I am NOT looking for no-strings sex whatsoever. As a practicing Catholic I am a firm believer in leaving sex for marriage, and I believe that a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship must be about getting to know the other person well and spending quality, wholesome time with them.

I do realize that I come across as somewhat chauvinistic (sp?) here, but I am a strict conservative both politically and socially, with the sole exceptions being social assistance programs and the environment, where I am oddly very left-wing. I believe very strongly that women need to be respected 100%, and that we as a society cannot tolerate abuse. That being said though, I do ask that women look at themselves, avoid getting into these abusive relationships (those who have seen my other posts will have seen the local relationship murder cases I have posted), and accept that some guys are eccentric, come across a little creepy, and can't read body language, even if they are the most respectful guy in the world. Women complain, rightfully, about guys having a narrow-minded view of the "perfect woman", but women also have a very narrow view of the "perfect man". I have made the effort to have a broad view of which women I like, and all I ask is that women do the same.

sorry? maybe you'd like to mention this amazing fact to all the men i've tried to have a relationship with over the past gazillion (slight exaggeration used to emphasis my advanced age) years?

i believe that serissa's point is that both males and females can have difficulties with relationships, at whatever stage, and that girls/women don't necessarily have it easier, overall. easier in some respects, maybe, more difficult in others, same as boys/men.

as i said somewhere else on WP - any of this "war between the sexes" stuff demeans both genders, frankly.

ELLICM~ are you stating this from a guys persepctive or that of a girl?

Regarding your statistics posted above... what are you basing this off of? What was your sample range? How many people have you asked? I personally think that if you are going to make blanket statements you should put "In my opinion"
Not to speak for any of the ladies on this board or anything, but I think that the point that was being made is that generalizations lead to assumptions, and we all should know what assumptions are.

Just my .02

I could never get one. Maybe deep down unconsciously I didn't want one? Naahh....

I could never get one. Maybe deep down unconsciously I didn't want one? Naahh....

There's a problem with your math. There are roughly equal numbers of guys and girls, so every time you see a guy without a girlfriend, it means there's a girl somewhere without a boyfriend. The only other explanation is that many guys have a large number of girlfriends simultaneously, but I don't think it's that common outside the movies.



The things you're saying seem to assume there are more men than women. You're ignoring the fact that women are in competition with each other for men just as much as men are in competition with each other for women. The competition just takes a different form, that's all.

Jeremy

Actually, according to Statistics Canada, males outnumber females quite significantly in the region I live in, compared with worldwide averages. Although my personal surveys are informal and don't involve questionnaires, I did once figure out how many single girls I know out of all the girls I know, and the number was very, very small. On the other hand, I can name the number of single guys I know on more than one hand. Men do have a statistical disadvantage in much of Ontario, and in some regions it is quite significant - sometimes the ratio is as much as 4 women for every 6 men.

I am not sure why this is, but either the number of nuclear plants in Ontario is the problem, or the high abortion rate (I am NOT advocating or dismissing abortion here, and I don't want to see any discussion about it) is terminating far more female fetuses than males, perhaps by accident.

Well, that's a regional thing, and not a basis for making generalizations about men and women. Naturally, if a resource is scarce (apologies for referring to women as a "resource" ), then there is going to be more intense competition for it. Unfortunately, that's just a fact of life.

In Canada as a whole, the ratio between men and women seems to be about 1.01:1, which is so close to equal that it doesn't make any difference. And in many countries (including the U.S.), women actually slightly outnumber men. Maybe at some point you should consider moving to an area where men are the minority?



There could be a lot of explanations for that, though. Maybe you just don't know the girls without boyfriends, because they tend to not be conspicuous or social. Or, since the gender ratio seems skewed where you live, it may be true locally, but it can't be true everywhere. I know it must suck to have the odds stacked against you like that, but that doesn't mean that women in general have an easier time. In many areas, the odds will be stacked against them, too.

Jeremy

Last edited by toddjh on 03 Jan 2006, 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Well I am a guy, but I some of what I say is based off of some of David DeAngelo's material that I have read, and he takes the female perspective.



I'm not the only one who believes this. Several guys on other forums have said the same thing, and some of them are more left-wing than myself.

Those are myths all right.

I forgot to mention that my data was for 5-14 year olds and 15-19 year olds in the 2001 census. While women do outnumber men on the whole in my region, men outnumber women in these age groups. Here are the numbers:

This region
All persons: M 48.4%, F 51.6%
Age 5-14: M 51.4%, F 48.6%
Age 15-19: M 50.6%, F 49.4%

Across Ontario
Age 5-14: M 51.3%, F 48.7%

I was 15 years old at the time of this census, so most of the women I will be interested in will have been in the 5-14 range at the time of the census (now 10-19).

Here's more interesting statistics, for people 15 years of age and over:

Marital Status - This region
Single: M 51.6%, F 48.4%
Married: M 50.0%, F 50.0%
Separated: M 42.3%, F 57.1%
Divorced: M 39.2%, F 60.8%

Marital Status - Ontario
Single: M 53.4%, F 46.6%
Married: M 50.0%, F 50.0%
Separated: M 43.7%, F 56.3%
Divorced: M 41.8%, F 58.2%[/u]