How can anyone believe that the world is 6,000 years old?

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ZEGH8578
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25 May 2009, 10:19 am

ouinon wrote:
ZEGH8578 wrote:
Knowledge/science: is gathered from observation.

It may be, but my own knowledge of Saturn for example is limited to words and pictures on paper. I believe that these things represent something out there in space. I have no "knowledge", as in direct observation/"proof", of it.

PS. What is "knowledge" by the way? Other than another one of those abstract words representing something for which there is no objective evidence/proof. Like "love", "truth", "justice", "good", "freedom", and "success".

.


i guess thats the compromise. we have faith in the secondary sources of information.

this has nothing to do with science tho, and wether or not faith is a part of research or the scientific method.

another breakdown... :
to have faith: to have faith in secondary sources of information based in faith, which is in turn based in faith.
to have knowledge: to have faith in a secondary source of information based in observation, or to have observed something yourself.

i guess it comes down to wether or not observation was included. science vs religion is very simple, nobody has ever seen anything ever described in any religious text ever in the history of mankind.

knowledge is information. thats as far as the definition goes, and it doesnt have to go any further :]


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Last edited by ZEGH8578 on 25 May 2009, 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sand
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25 May 2009, 10:21 am

ouinon wrote:
ZEGH8578 wrote:
Knowledge/science: is gathered from observation.

It may be, but my own knowledge of Saturn for example is limited to words and pictures on paper. I believe that these things represent something out there in space. I have no "knowledge", as in direct observation/"proof", of it.

PS. What is "knowledge" by the way? Other than another one of those abstract words representing something for which there is no objective evidence/proof. Like "love", "truth", "justice", "good", "freedom", "god", and "success".

.


Well, the understanding that salt NaCl crystalizes into cubes. You can test that and see.



ouinon
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25 May 2009, 10:44 am

ZEGH8578 wrote:
science vs religion is very simple, nobody has ever seen anything ever described in any religious text ever in the history of mankind.

You know this do you?

And someone has seen a quark, an electron, and a microsecond?

.



Sand
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25 May 2009, 10:50 am

ouinon wrote:
ZEGH8578 wrote:
science vs religion is very simple, nobody has ever seen anything ever described in any religious text ever in the history of mankind.

You know this do you?

And someone has seen a quark, an electron, and a microsecond?

.


Each of these has been tested in other ways than sight and the results have proved uniformly useful in creating technological devices that function. Nobody has successfully and repeatedly beseeched God for a miracle and had it function with uniform and validated regularity.



Last edited by Sand on 25 May 2009, 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

ZEGH8578
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25 May 2009, 10:52 am

ouinon wrote:
ZEGH8578 wrote:
science vs religion is very simple, nobody has ever seen anything ever described in any religious text ever in the history of mankind.

You know this do you?

And someone has seen a quark, an electron, and a microsecond?

.


digging holes are we?

you cant see a second. neither a microsecond, macrosecond, a millisecond or a megasecond. seconds are invisible...

as for quarks and electrons:
see all my other replies. if you didnt read them well, read again.


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scorpileo
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25 May 2009, 11:05 am

most our understanding comes from maths... inmagine if some one in history got one number one in a equation, then some made another one based one the first and so on?

:D


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ouinon
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25 May 2009, 11:16 am

ZEGH8578 wrote:
ouinon wrote:
ZEGH8578 wrote:
science vs religion is very simple, nobody has ever seen anything ever described in any religious text ever in the history of mankind.
You know this do you? And someone has seen a quark, an electron, and a microsecond?
You can't see a second. Seconds are invisible...

Invisible like truth, justice, god, "good", etc? Invisible like thoughts/beliefs? Or invisible like feelings? All of these things are part of religion, and described constantly throughout the bible.

.



ZEGH8578
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25 May 2009, 11:17 am

scorpileo wrote:
most our understanding comes from maths... inmagine if some one in history got one number one in a equation, then some made another one based one the first and so on?

:D


what, like the whisper-game?

thats exactly how religions are formed, imho :D
"hey the legionaires just dragged some guy away, he was yelling and moaning something about cleaning up the temple."
a year later
"hey tell us about that insaaaane guy who smashed up the entire temple, untill the legionaires pulled him away from there!"

8)


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25 May 2009, 11:21 am

If people want to believe the earth was created for 6,000 years ago, it's because such a timescale confirms their need that human beings have a cosmic purpose, which gives meaning and comfort to their lives. It doesn't mean they believe in witchcraft or that prayer can fix broken engine parts. As long as they are rational in practical matters, the fact that they don't chose to accept geological or astronomical evidence doesn't matter to me. Only a small fraction of people have any serious interest in non-practical matters anyway; trying to force-feed unpleasant truths to the other +95% is a complete waste of time.



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25 May 2009, 11:31 am

ZEGH8578 wrote:
scorpileo wrote:
most our understanding comes from maths... inmagine if some one in history got one number one in a equation, then some made another one based one the first and so on?

:D


what, like the whisper-game?

thats exactly how religions are formed, imho :D
"hey the legionaires just dragged some guy away, he was yelling and moaning something about cleaning up the temple."
a year later
"hey tell us about that insaaaane guy who smashed up the entire temple, untill the legionaires pulled him away from there!"

8)

exactly.. and it's our job to weed out the lies


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25 May 2009, 11:31 am

Gabe wrote:
If people want to believe the earth was created for 6,000 years ago, it's because such a timescale confirms their need that human beings have a cosmic purpose, which gives meaning and comfort to their lives. It doesn't mean they believe in witchcraft or that prayer can fix broken engine parts. As long as they are rational in practical matters, the fact that they don't chose to accept geological or astronomical evidence doesn't matter to me. Only a small fraction of people have any serious interest in non-practical matters anyway; trying to force-feed unpleasant truths to the other +95% is a complete waste of time.


Though I've never heard of anyone trying to fix a broken engine through prayer, I've read many articles about parents trying to heal their dying kids through prayer rather than tested medicines. And unless the courts intervene and force treatment, it always ends with a dead kid. Now that's a bit of a problem.



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25 May 2009, 11:34 am

we should use medicen and prayer as god may work though it


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Sand
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25 May 2009, 11:36 am

Gabe wrote:
If people want to believe the earth was created for 6,000 years ago, it's because such a timescale confirms their need that human beings have a cosmic purpose, which gives meaning and comfort to their lives. It doesn't mean they believe in witchcraft or that prayer can fix broken engine parts. As long as they are rational in practical matters, the fact that they don't chose to accept geological or astronomical evidence doesn't matter to me. Only a small fraction of people have any serious interest in non-practical matters anyway; trying to force-feed unpleasant truths to the other +95% is a complete waste of time.


Right. Keep them dumb and domesticated. That's the way to scam the hell out of them economically, politically and philosophically.
Makes them much more docile and easy to manipulate and that's the best way to run a pseudodemocracy.



ouinon
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25 May 2009, 11:41 am

Gabe wrote:
If people want to believe the earth was created for 6,000 years ago, it's because such a timescale confirms their need that human beings have a cosmic purpose, which gives meaning and comfort to their lives. It doesn't mean they believe in witchcraft or that prayer can fix broken engine parts. As long as they are rational in practical matters, the fact that they don't chose to accept geological or astronomical evidence doesn't matter to me. Only a small fraction of people have any serious interest in non-practical matters anyway; trying to force-feed unpleasant truths to the other +95% is a complete waste of time.

:lol: I was reminded of Sherlock Holmes, who said, when Dr. Watson expressed shock that he did not know that the earth orbited the sun, etc, that not only did he not care, but that he would try to immediately forget that Watson had told him so as not to clutter up his mind with useless information.

.



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25 May 2009, 11:45 am

how can anyone believe anything?