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A suggestion for The Haven forum

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magz
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29 Sep 2020, 9:51 am

Pepe wrote:
AuroraBorealisGazer wrote:
If the content of a thread may upset me, and the title is reflective of that content, then I will know to avoid it or mentally prepare myself for it before clicking.

People will click on a thread even if they have a problem with it.
It is a matter of choice.

Then choose wisely.


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Fnord
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29 Sep 2020, 9:51 am

magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Oops!  There I go again, offering advice where none was asked for ... stupid me ... bad, stupid me ...
This is not The Haven, the rules of The Haven apply only within The Haven, except from this part:
Feyokien wrote:
If you think someone is violating these rules or the spirit of these rules in any way, send a Moderator a private message about your concerns. Do NOT post about it publicly!
I think we can reasonably assume that outside of The Haven, we can expect people to deal with unsolicited advice.
Ahh ... clarification!  Thank you.


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magz
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29 Sep 2020, 9:56 am

Fnord wrote:
Ahh ... clarification!  Thank you.

You're welcome.
I believe a lot of bad blood here could have been avoided if we routinely tried to clarify things first.


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Fnord
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29 Sep 2020, 10:00 am

magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Ahh ... clarification!  Thank you.
You're welcome.  I believe a lot of bad blood here could have been avoided if we routinely tried to clarify things first.
Finding the "Sweet Spot" between simplifying The Rules and over-simplifying The Rules has always been an issue.


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29 Sep 2020, 10:00 am

IMO there are many triggering titles in the Haven that don't contain the name of a politician. People are going to click on both triggering and non triggering titles. People will even click on threads that say [Trigger warning] in the title.

As long as thread titles don't contain obviously offensive content that must be removed immediately, I don't really feel comfortable drafting strict guidelines that knit pick how people self express their pain, unless someone can help me get past that discomfort.

Examples of offensive thread titles:

I hate Feyokien so much
You're all bastards for voting for Trump
All you people who voted for Biden have caused my death
All men are misogynists
Demoncrats have destroyed my country



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29 Sep 2020, 10:31 am

In regards to protecting people from abuse, I don't see making posters use 'generic' thread titles as a line of defense. Even generic titles will alert people to a topics content. I can also imagine that certain types probably don't even care about titles at all. They just patrol looking for threads created by specific users that they know hold a specific political view that they don't like. I feel the rules we have published are the best defense.



magz
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29 Sep 2020, 10:46 am

Feyokien wrote:
In regards to protecting people from abuse, I don't see making posters use 'generic' thread titles as a line of defense. Even generic titles will alert people to a topics content. I can also imagine that certain types probably don't even care about titles at all. They just patrol looking for threads created by specific users that they know hold a specific political view that they don't like. I feel the rules we have published are the best defense.

I second keeping to the rules as published.
As an apparently required clarification: these rules apply only to posting in The Haven or commenting content published in The Haven.


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Fnord
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29 Sep 2020, 10:52 am

magz wrote:
... these rules apply only to posting in The Haven or commenting content published in The Haven.
Has this caveat been appended as stated to the rules of The Haven?  If not, they should.


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29 Sep 2020, 7:34 pm

I get what Pepe is saying. It would be nice to be able to go to the Haven, and just bare your soul, and not hafta worry about debating partisan politics. But how that could be achieved by tweaking the rules for the Haven is...not obvious to me.

As many have pointed out above every suggestion made so far cuts both ways.



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29 Sep 2020, 7:40 pm

^ We did that with the rules (right?). I see a difference between 'debating politics' and 'seeing the names of politicians'.

Quote:
Do NOT
• Campaign for a political belief/party/candidate. If the original poster is distressed about politics, responders should remain apolitical as possible while providing support to the OP.


https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=297515



magz
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30 Sep 2020, 3:02 am

Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
... these rules apply only to posting in The Haven or commenting content published in The Haven.
Has this caveat been appended as stated to the rules of The Haven?  If not, they should.

Done :)


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Pepe
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30 Sep 2020, 3:31 am

Feyokien wrote:
In regards to protecting people from abuse, I don't see making posters use 'generic' thread titles as a line of defense. Even generic titles will alert people to a topics content. I can also imagine that certain types probably don't even care about titles at all. They just patrol looking for threads created by specific users that they know hold a specific political view that they don't like. I feel the rules we have published are the best defense.


You are missing my point.
A political title is "Trumpeting", errr, a political message. 8O
Politics is verboten in The Haven.

Making the title neutral is a step in the right direction. 8)
"I am angry/stressed about the election" is a neutral title. ©Pepe 8)

Also, attacks within the thread are against The Haven policy and will be removed.



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30 Sep 2020, 3:48 am

Feyokien wrote:
^ We did that with the rules (right?). I see a difference between 'debating politics' and 'seeing the names of politicians'.

Quote:
Do NOT
• Campaign for a political belief/party/candidate. If the original poster is distressed about politics, responders should remain apolitical as possible while providing support to the OP.


https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=297515


I hate Trump/Biden in the title is permissible?

Fictitious example:
Title: "I hate Biden because he represents the Democrats"

The Democrats, in the past, have been soft on ch*na, compared to Trump.
ch*na is at my country's doorstep.
It stresses me out to think that a new Democratic President of America might incentivise greater economic attacks and possibly even an actual attack on my country. EEP! 8O



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30 Sep 2020, 4:00 am

AuroraBorealisGazer wrote:
If the content of a thread may upset me, and the title is reflective of that content, then I will know to avoid it or mentally prepare myself for it before clicking.


"I am stressed by the election." <Political trigger warning>



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30 Sep 2020, 9:07 am

Pepe wrote:
Feyokien wrote:
^ We did that with the rules (right?). I see a difference between 'debating politics' and 'seeing the names of politicians'.

Quote:
Do NOT
• Campaign for a political belief/party/candidate. If the original poster is distressed about politics, responders should remain apolitical as possible while providing support to the OP.


https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=297515


I hate Trump/Biden in the title is permissible?

Fictitious example:
Title: "I hate Biden because he represents the Democrats"

The Democrats, in the past, have been soft on ch*na, compared to Trump.
ch*na is at my country's doorstep.
It stresses me out to think that a new Democratic President of America might incentivise greater economic attacks and possibly even an actual attack on my country. EEP! 8O


^ political commentary would be edited. No one has done that yet. If a thread or two shows up then we will consider making an additional note like magz did.

Feyokien wrote:
IMO there are many triggering titles in the Haven that Don't contain the name of a politician. People are going to click on both triggering and non triggering titles. People will even click on threads that say [Trigger warning] in the title.

As long as thread titles don't contain obviously offensive content that must be removed immediately, I don't really feel comfortable drafting strict guidelines that knit pick how people self express their pain, unless someone can help me get past that discomfort.

Examples of offensive thread titles:

I hate Feyokien so much
You're all bastards for voting for Trump
All you people who voted for Biden have caused my death
All men are misogynists
Demoncrats have destroyed my country



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30 Sep 2020, 10:06 am

My only suggestion for the haven forum is that it should be made members only. I have no idea why anyone posts there while it's public. It's supposed to be a safe-ish space, but it's easily search-engine indexable. It provides no protection for those who might need it most. I realize making an account is a low barrier, but that beats letting it all hang out for all to see.