The sun is or was apparently doing something strange.

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03 May 2011, 11:43 pm

The Sun has been doing strange things for a long time.

The problem with Religious Science. This is proveable truth forever and for all time! When change is discovered it is called a Cycle, or syndrom.

Quantum Mechanics is based on behavior change when a system gains or loses energy.

Change is the system. Long before farts were blamed for climate change, the climate changed. Ice Ages come and go, periods warmer than today, and the cause had to be outside this planet.

Carbon 14 dates do not fit the known dated periods, tree rings, Carbon 14 wanders. Production varies over time.

The Sun eats, excreats, blasts out Solar Flares, and absorbs a lot of cosmic radiation. Input/output must vary.

Careful measurement has shown the speed of light to be a constant, as measured on the surface of the earth. Time is also a constant, on Earth.

No one has been around long enough to measure decay rates, Like Carbon 14 they could wander a bit over time. An ice age could slow it, a supernova speed it up.

Water evaporates, slower at higher air pressure, humid air, higher with heat, Processes vary with the background.

This Earth Centric thinking clouds our vision of the whole system.

The view that climate is a measured standard only counts the last few hundred years, and ignores the last 25,000 which had a large and long ice age, sea level down 150 meters, and a period much warmer with sea level seven meters higher. That energy change did not come from the planet.

Longer term the age of dinosaurs that just ended was 125 degrees for over a hundred million years. A warmer sun seems likely, more than dinos breaking wind.

Expect change.



ruveyn
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04 May 2011, 3:49 am

Inventor wrote:
The Sun has been doing strange things for a long time.



One thing the sun is not doing is changing radioactive decay rates of heavy elements. Forget anything you saw in -2012- as serious science.

ruveyn



Last edited by ruveyn on 04 May 2011, 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

PatrickNeville
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04 May 2011, 5:42 am

It does but only slightly. It is barely noticeable though.

All decay is an unstable atom breaking down into a more stable one. The radiation from the sun, the neutrinos particles specifically I do believe plus possibly other factors affect the stability which results in a slightly different rate.

It is a fraction of a percent anyway.

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/36108

http://arxiv.org/abs/0809.4248

edit (lets not discuss 2012, I could not give a **** about it really)


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04 May 2011, 4:06 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Inventor wrote:
The Sun has been doing strange things for a long time.



One thing the sun is not doing is changing radioactive decay rates of heavy elements. Forget anything you saw in -2012- as serious science.

ruveyn

Would you care to have a open mind Ruveyn? Sometime things are dicovered that was unexpected or thoughts impossible by science. Good scientists are open to that. I don't care abot 2012, but when scientists see strange things they may be something new on the horizon.

QuantumMechanic wrote:
I saw an earlier release of this on PhysOrg months ago. I find it interesting, but not cause for the mass silliness this projectworldawareness site is promoting. It is only a fraction of a percent effect. It took the researchers months of data to determine it was not just noise or some other systematic error. The effect is barely discernible from the noise. There is no indication of a trend as your most alarming source stated, only a couple oscillation frequencies that coincide with the earth's motion about the sun and the rotation of the sun's core. And so far it has only been observed in a few isotopes.

As for carbon-dating, this probably does not affect the results in any meaningful way. The error that this would cause is much smaller than other sources of error, which knowing about the mechanism of measuring decays is probably dominated by the shot noise of measuring the carbon-14 decays.

But for physicists, any unexplained, repeatable variation like that is very interesting. The fact that the decay rate of at least some isoptopes depends on something like this could tell us more about elementary particles and nuclear physics.

I consider myself more of an expert on this topic than the journalists that wrote these articles (though not as much as the scientists who actually did the measurements, who I cannot find giving any alarmist quotes). Why? I am an atomic/molecular/optics (AMO) physicist who deals with decay rates and shot noise and the like in my measurements. I also have from my coursework a good overview of the nuclear physics involved, extremely likely much more so than any journalist.


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04 May 2011, 10:06 pm

Carbon 14 wanders. There we have known dates, tree rings, and the Carbon 14 dates are off. It is plus/minus through time.

All dates for some periods are hundreds of years off, across the board, and other periods are right on the mark. For a decay rate tracked over 5,000 years, the only one, it shows that it is not a clock, but a process.

Long term it is within +-1-2%, a hundred years in 5,000. Some periods are farther off. Now in our post glacial world the Carbon Cycle has not changed, that stuff is trapped here. What has changed is the rate of Carbon 14 production, sometimes by a large margin.

It has been proposed that the bumps in Carbon 14 match the Vela X and other Supernovas. The same force hitting something as large as the sun is inputing a huge amount of energy, that stuff that cannot be created or destroyed. If it can blow away the Ozone layer on Earth, that force applied to the Sun will have results.

It is a small but known change in decay rates.

Nothing is fixed, nothing is touching, everything vibrates.



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04 May 2011, 10:18 pm

It's definitely proven that bodies in the solar system have been acting strangely lately. I guess the proof will be in the pudding if something major happens.



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04 May 2011, 10:25 pm

hale_bopp wrote:
It's definitely proven that bodies in the solar system have been acting strangely lately. I guess the proof will be in the pudding if something major happens.


I haven't heard anything about that, do you have a link/source I could read? (I'm very curious about anything astronomy related :) )


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05 May 2011, 1:31 am

hale_bopp wrote:
It's definitely proven that bodies in the solar system have been acting strangely lately. I guess the proof will be in the pudding if something major happens.


Not lately. They have been acting strangely for billions of years and we are just finding it out.

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05 May 2011, 6:10 pm

The only weird thing I have seen is this. Something seemingly orbiting our solar system was detected by NASA then the story eventually become a bit quiet. If the mapping of this object is correct then when it has lined up with us between itself and other planets it may have played a part in weather disturbances like earthquakes.

I only read the article and did not go off exploring the sources so I am not assuming it to be true but would like to hear what others think.

http://www.activistpost.com/2011/05/bad ... comet.html


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05 May 2011, 6:41 pm

Sounds like more crazy new age hype; key elements: '2012' 'underground city beneath Denver airport' 'Jesse Ventura' 'Neutron Star'... sigh
I look forward to what ruveyn has to say


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05 May 2011, 6:46 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Sounds like more crazy new age hype; key elements: '2012' 'underground city beneath Denver airport' 'Jesse Ventura' 'Neutron Star'... sigh
I look forward to what ruveyn has to say


Those aspects you mentioned are the bits I try to ignore. It is only the "object" I think of. I'd guess that it could be a comet or anything if it exists.


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05 May 2011, 6:52 pm

PatrickNeville wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Sounds like more crazy new age hype; key elements: '2012' 'underground city beneath Denver airport' 'Jesse Ventura' 'Neutron Star'... sigh
I look forward to what ruveyn has to say


Those aspects you mentioned are the bits I try to ignore. It is only the "object" I think of. I'd guess that it could be a comet or anything if it exists.


Unfortunately those are the bits that pop out most for me. He claims to use NASA as a source; but honestly it sounds like he's interpreting data for his own fantasy and probably taking it out of context. Its best to only take seriously announcements directly from space authorities. A pretty good web page is Space.com (link) which I consider a reputable source
I'm also a big fan of this astronomy/skeptic blog: Phil Plait's Bad Astronomy (link)


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05 May 2011, 7:04 pm

Thanks. I am on that sceptics blog now. the mad scientist bit is where I think I might start off.


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05 May 2011, 7:06 pm

I think Phil Plait might have a show now, not sure. I like his section on Astrology


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05 May 2011, 7:17 pm

I googled his name and lots comes up. :)


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06 May 2011, 7:40 am

PatrickNeville wrote:
The only weird thing I have seen is this. Something seemingly orbiting our solar system was detected by NASA then the story eventually become a bit quiet. If the mapping of this object is correct then when it has lined up with us between itself and other planets it may have played a part in weather disturbances like earthquakes.



What is the causal mechanism? Display the underlying physics.

ruveyn