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Intel processors are dead, so I have an AMD question

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kokopelli
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09 Jan 2018, 12:09 pm

XenoMind wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
I read somewhere that AMD processors have their own version of the same issue.

That's not true.


From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectre_(security_vulnerability):[quote]As of 2018, almost every computer system is affected by Spectre, including desktops, laptops, and mobile devices. Specifically, Spectre has been shown to work on Intel, AMD, and ARM-based processors. Intel responded to the reported security vulnerabilities with an official statement. According to a statement by AMD, vulnerability to one of the two Spectre variants hadn't been demonstrated on AMD processors.[/url]

Care to try again?



XenoMind
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09 Jan 2018, 12:26 pm

kokopelli wrote:
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectre_(security_vulnerability):
Quote:
As of 2018, almost every computer system is affected by Spectre, including desktops, laptops, and mobile devices. Specifically, Spectre has been shown to work on Intel, AMD, and ARM-based processors. Intel responded to the reported security vulnerabilities with an official statement. According to a statement by AMD, vulnerability to one of the two Spectre variants hadn't been demonstrated on AMD processors.[/url]
Care to try again?


Spectre is a less severe one of those 2 vulnerabilities. Meltdown is a much more severe one, and it's strictly Intel only.
And
According to a statement by AMD, vulnerability to one of the two Spectre variants hadn't been demonstrated on AMD processors.



BTDT
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09 Jan 2018, 12:40 pm

I just bought a refurbished i7-2600 computer with 8 gig of ram for $340. Figure that should be fast enough considering that it is replacing a 2009 dual core computer! Especially since I use two computers when I want to multitask.



MagicKnight
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09 Jan 2018, 12:56 pm

I was used to be a huge AMD proponent in the past. It's a much smaller company that can stab serious hurts to its much bigger competitor. To say I would agree that they are making the best CPU's out there today, I really don't think I would.

I'd wait a couple months for Intel to fix their problems. There's a chances that their prices will drop due to the many issues.

Edit: You're very concerned with the Meltdown bug but ... you know AMD chips are susceptible to the other bug anyway, right?



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09 Jan 2018, 1:03 pm

MagicKnight wrote:
I was used to be a huge AMD proponent in the past.

"Concern troll"... boring.

MagicKnight wrote:
I'd wait a couple months for Intel to fix their problems.

Meltdown is already patched via software, it results in a huge performance drop in the disk subsystem.
As of fixing the bug in the CPU itself, don't expect it earlier than in 2 years (and that's a very optimistic estimation). The same for Spectre. Fortunately, it's not as bad as Meltdown.



MagicKnight
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09 Jan 2018, 1:41 pm

XenoMind wrote:
MagicKnight wrote:
I was used to be a huge AMD proponent in the past.

"Concern troll"... boring.

MagicKnight wrote:
I'd wait a couple months for Intel to fix their problems.

Meltdown is already patched via software, it results in a huge performance drop in the disk subsystem.
As of fixing the bug in the CPU itself, don't expect it earlier than in 2 years (and that's a very optimistic estimation). The same for Spectre. Fortunately, it's not as bad as Meltdown.


Hey you just called a troll someone who gave you serious advice, and an advice that you were about to reply to. That wasn't nice.



kokopelli
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09 Jan 2018, 2:31 pm

XenoMind wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectre_(security_vulnerability):
Quote:
As of 2018, almost every computer system is affected by Spectre, including desktops, laptops, and mobile devices. Specifically, Spectre has been shown to work on Intel, AMD, and ARM-based processors. Intel responded to the reported security vulnerabilities with an official statement. According to a statement by AMD, vulnerability to one of the two Spectre variants hadn't been demonstrated on AMD processors.[/url]
Care to try again?


Spectre is a less severe one of those 2 vulnerabilities. Meltdown is a much more severe one, and it's strictly Intel only.
And
According to a statement by AMD, vulnerability to one of the two Spectre variants hadn't been demonstrated on AMD processors.


Read it again. It did not say that it hasn't been demonstrated on AMD processors. It said that one of the two variants hasn't been demonstrated on AMD processors. Presumably, it is the other variant that has been shown to work on AMD processors.

And from https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2018/01/03/intel-meltdown-spectre-vulnerabilities-leave-millions-open-to-cyber-attack/#2992fcc93932:
Quote:
Spectre may also work better in exploiting cloud systems, according to Gruss. He noted that Spectre can trick a hypervisor - the software that manages virtual machines in a cloud - into leaking secrets to a guest. And, whilst he said it was not as easy to execute as Meltdown, he believes a hack can run in JavaScript. "This means that you would only have to navigate to an attacker-controlled website," he added.


Also, it is thought that Spectre is going to be much harder to address than Meltdown.



XenoMind
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09 Jan 2018, 5:41 pm

kokopelli wrote:
Read it again. It did not say that it hasn't been demonstrated on AMD processors. It said that one of the two variants hasn't been demonstrated on AMD processors. Presumably, it is the other variant that has been shown to work on AMD processors.
Also, it is thought that Spectre is going to be much harder to address than Meltdown.

Having one subtype of Spectre is better than having both. And not having Meltdown is definitely much better than having it.
As of now, there are 3 types of this CPU vulnerability and Intel has all 3 of those and AMD has 1 confirmed and 1 possible, but not confirmed. I just can't understand what you can't understand here ;)



kokopelli
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09 Jan 2018, 7:52 pm

XenoMind wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
Read it again. It did not say that it hasn't been demonstrated on AMD processors. It said that one of the two variants hasn't been demonstrated on AMD processors. Presumably, it is the other variant that has been shown to work on AMD processors.
Also, it is thought that Spectre is going to be much harder to address than Meltdown.

Having one subtype of Spectre is better than having both. And not having Meltdown is definitely much better than having it.
As of now, there are 3 types of this CPU vulnerability and Intel has all 3 of those and AMD has 1 confirmed and 1 possible, but not confirmed. I just can't understand what you can't understand here ;)


You're the one who claimed earlier that AMD processors aren't affected.



XenoMind
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09 Jan 2018, 8:03 pm

kokopelli wrote:
You're the one who claimed earlier that AMD processors aren't affected.

By Meltdown, yes. Which is the very worst one of these bugs.



kokopelli
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09 Jan 2018, 9:53 pm

XenoMind wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
You're the one who claimed earlier that AMD processors aren't affected.

By Meltdown, yes. Which is the very worst one of these bugs.


It's weird to me that someone would consider the vulnerability that can be fixed by system patches to be worse than the one that cannot be fixed, only mitigated at best.



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09 Jan 2018, 9:59 pm

kokopelli wrote:
It's weird to me that someone would consider the vulnerability that can be fixed by system patches to be worse than the one that cannot be fixed, only mitigated at best.

You have no idea what you're talking about, have you? Meltdown is mitigated (no 100% guarantees, it just improves your chances), it sets back performance a lot, and it's the most dangerous one in terms of possible harm to your system and data.



kokopelli
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09 Jan 2018, 11:03 pm

XenoMind wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
It's weird to me that someone would consider the vulnerability that can be fixed by system patches to be worse than the one that cannot be fixed, only mitigated at best.

You have no idea what you're talking about, have you? Meltdown is mitigated (no 100% guarantees, it just improves your chances), it sets back performance a lot, and it's the most dangerous one in terms of possible harm to your system and data.


Calm down, sonny.

What I know is what I have read in the news. Have you actually done serious research on this topic that gives you some special insight?



kokopelli
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09 Jan 2018, 11:35 pm

From https://www.qemu.org/2018/01/04/spectre/:

Quote:
No microcode updates are required to block the Meltdown attack. In addition, the Meltdown flaw does not allow a malicious guest to read the contents of hypervisor memory. Fixing it only requires that the operating system separates the user and kernel address spaces (known as page table isolation for the Linux kernel), which can be done separately on the host and the guests.


From https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/03/kernel-panic-what-are-meltdown-and-spectre-the-bugs-affecting-nearly-every-computer-and-device/:
Quote:
Meltdown can be fixed essentially by building a stronger wall around the kernel; the technical term is “kernel page table isolation.” This solves the issue, but there’s a cost. Modern CPU architectures assume certain things about the way the kernel works and is accessed, and changing those things means that they won’t be able to operate at full capacity.

...

Spectre, on the other hand, is not likely to be fully fixed any time soon. The fact is that the practice that leads to this attack being possible is so hard-wired into processors that the researchers couldn’t find any way to totally avoid it.


From https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/05/spectre_flaws_explained/:
Quote:
But Spectre will be harder to mitigate than Meltdown because the most effective fix is redesigned computing hardware.

"We are currently not aware of effective countermeasures that will eliminate the root cause of Spectre, short of hardware redesign," said Daniel Genkin, one of the authors of the Spectre research paper and postdoctoral fellow in computer science in the University of Pennsylvania and the University of Maryland, in the US, in an email to The Register.

CERT in its January 3 vulnerability note for one of the two Spectre CVEs said the solution is replace CPU hardware, noting, "Underlying vulnerability is caused by CPU architecture design choices. Fully removing the vulnerability requires replacing vulnerable CPU hardware."



MagicKnight
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10 Jan 2018, 8:42 am

XenoMind wrote:
[According to a statement by AMD, vulnerability to one of the two Spectre variants hadn't been demonstrated on AMD processors.


Yes, because every other specialist is wrong unless they totally agree with you. Plus, a statement from the barber saying everyone should get a haircut right now no matter they are bald, should be taken as sane advice. Lol.

AMD Zealot. Boring.

Hey Zebra Mind, shut up and don't come here to talk gobshite unless you have proper facts alright? "AMD Told me so". Fookin' whiny whimper.



XenoMind
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11 Jan 2018, 4:48 pm

kokopelli wrote:
Have you actually done serious research on this topic that gives you some special insight?

I see that you didn't.