Practical social solution for schools and colleges

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Last edited by Ante on 09 Nov 2005, 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

No one can be forced to befriend someone. You are talking about other students, right? It is not, nor should it be, their responsibility to befriend you or make you feel comfortable.



A paraplegic can't get up the steps. People with AS can make friends. It is just harder for us, but it is definitely possible.



I don't think we should be treated delicately socially. I find it patronising. Social situations can even be confusing for NTs sometimes. If it wasn't, why would there be such a large market for books and tapes to teach people small talk? Everyone at one point or another feels confused about what other people are doing and thinking, and they usually feel threatened or scared because of it. That's life.



I think it's wrong if people with AS are not allowed to join clubs, but I don't think people should have to make an effort to include other people in their circle of friends. I don't think it's right for people to purposely harm another person physically or emotionally, but if someone doesn't want you to be their friend, then that person should be allowed the right not to have you as their friend.

You are responsible for how you feel. Everyone is disadvantaged at something. Some people aren't smart, some people aren't pretty, some people aren't rich, some people aren't athletic, we don't have great social skills. Strength occurs when people learn to accept and deal with their disadvantages, not when they believe other's should be responsible for dealing with them.



As I said before, you can't force someone to be your friend! Besides, what you are talking about isn't friendship, it is more like babysitting. People have enough responsibility at school. They don't need to babysit on top of everything else.

Personally, if I was delegated the responsibility to be 'friends' with someone, and I was required to spend my time with them, I would be extremely furious and outraged. It shouldn't be my responsibility to take care of someone while I want to spend time with my friends.



Except you are forgetting one thing. You might think of them as friends, but to them you would just be extra baggage. Friendship is two sided. What you are talking about is artificial friendship. It's not real. I would rather have no friends than fake friends.



I don't think it's a good idea at all.

Last edited by Bec on 12 Oct 2005, 12:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

I think the idea of a designated friend (DF) is a good idea.

I would rather have a designated friend because that person could run interference for me until people understod me and became comfortable with me. Once people get to know me they like me. But most people never get past thinking I am odd and feeling threatened by me (I have very high IQ), so I have few friends. I count one person at this time. I have other people around me who are posers. They disappear when there is no opportunity for personal gain.

I do not think it is a good idea to have a DF of the opposite sex. Too many problems and too tempting to feel like you want to date her, meanwhile she is just doing her job.

I think there should be AS groups and inclusive groups, but I do not think all groups should be inclusive. Groups are creatd to make safety for their members. If you say anyone can come in, then the group is not safe. If you say all people with AS should be included, then other people will ask for special status as well, and the group will become unsafe.
A DF can facilitate entry into groups that interest you.

Every once in a blue moon, you meet someone who performs the role of DF. I had such a person for 10 years but never realized I had AS and so never did the work to make friends from all the contacts she provided for me. Regrets....

As for the rest, the solution is neither simple nor easy. I have Apsegery parents - one has friends, the other does not. I have an Aspergery friend with very good social skills. She has friends. Not only am I bad at social skills, I have the disadvantage of brown skin. That means when something bad happens people are more likely to think I did it, and on purpose.
Yes, probably I could make friends if I put enough effort into it. And did nothing else. Social interaction is highly draining and anxiety provoking for me.

So if you are like me, then while you are busy surviving, the opportunities and time to learn social interaction will pass and you will get older. And the older you get, the fewer resources for making friends (people get married, caught up in their jobs and lives and have less time for socializing). This is why I think the idea of a designated friend is a good one. But it won't work without hope. Hope will give you confidence, and confidence will help build skills. Note that you will have a different set of skills based on what your obstacles are.

BTW, the DF should be someone who won't feel outraged and put upon at the idea of helping someone make the rest of their life a heck of a lot better. Such a responsibility is a contract, not an obligation.

True, you can't force someone; but you can encourage them, and impress on students their moral responsibilities, that go beyond those legally defineable ones.


In your experience, maybe. However, many people with AS, particularly males, can't. That makes life very hard; social activity is a central part of being human, if you take that away from someone, and give them little hope of ever experiencing it, it's like being condemned to a lifetime of solitary confinement. It's tantamount to torture.



Yes, life's a b***h. But, you can't compare the minor problems NTs have with those major, innate inabilities, experienced by people with AS. Our difficulties are not insecurity, nor necessarily related to the mechanics of the social exchange; they are multi-facetted — get a book on AS, if you can't figure that out.



You seem extremely selfish, Bec. I guess that's because you're young, and have AS; you'll maybe see things a little differently one day.

I think Ante's idea is fine, if all parties involved are willing; that's to say nobody is forced into the situation.

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the night. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

Assigning a "friend" to an aspie with the goal of helping him cope with the world is a short-term benefit (and only under ideal conditions). Life is a long-term situation, and if he doesn't learn how to deal with people on his own, he's going to be permanently helpless. Not to mention the resentment and alienation that will almost certainly result from that kind of situation against the aspie from all sides.

Also, I'd like to remind everyone to refrain from personal attacks.

Well, to be honest, many of us have found heaps of those two commodities about anyway, ghostix.

But you don't have AS, so I guess you wouldn't know.

Oh, perhaps it's better to be helpless, than hanging from a rope.

Thanks for being so patronising , but I don't need to 'get a book on AS'. I have already read many books on the subject. I've figured it out. I also have AS.



It's not that I am selfish, or that I don't care about other people. I just don't want to be a babysitter.

Maybe that makes me selfish, but I don't really care for the whole 'holier than thou' attitude, ascan.



ghotistix is still on the autistic spectrum, so I'm sure he knows all about it. Who are you to judge?


I have another thing to add: Ante's idea only works for younger children (about kindergarten or first grade). By the time people become teenagers and young adults, friendships are too complex to be delegated.

Good debate. If I may add only one thing, at colleges and universities, a person usually has a roommate. Perhaps this could be a good place to start with a possible friendship. After all, it is much easier to live in the same house if both persons are agreeable to one another.

Umm, didn't that quote originally have something to do with fish, not setting people on fire?

There are 'befriender' schemes already for autistics so maybe it would be a good idea to introduce this voluntarily in Universities etc but im not sure there would be a high take-up rate. There would need to be a vetting procedure to make sure they would be a good influence too.

According to his profile he doesn't have AS or HFA. So, as for knowing "all about it", I doubt it.

I don't think that's being too judgemental, and I suspect many others here who are diagnosed with AS or HFA would agree.

Does the phrase "Other autism spectrum disorder" make you think of a social butterfly? It doesn't for me. If you're really so suspicious of me, I can tell you the only reason I don't consider myself as having AS is that my collection of symptoms, while very close to AS, doesn't quite fit the specific diagnostic criteria as well as it does for the more general PDD-NOS. I've had all the social interaction issues associated with AS and I've gone through my share of hardships because of it. It doesn't change my stance on artificial friends.

Now, if we could please get back to attacking positions instead of people.

No, it makes me think that you're telling whoever is reading your profile that you don't have AS or HFA. Other ASDs don't necessarily have the features that are being discussed (though I accept some do). To be honest, the friend thing wouldn't have suited me either; but as eamonn points out, there are schemes like that which the NAS run, and some people who do have AS or HFA find useful.


Yeah, that's the second time you've said that. I guess it's alright to do want you want here as long as you don't offend the sensibilities of the central WP clique. I really can't see how I'm attacking anyone. I'm just looking at the facts, and coming to conclusions which are qualified by the use of the words "doubt" or "guess" that preclude the possibility that I believe them to be the only conclusions that can be reached. That leaves the door open for you to refute what I've suggested, which you've done. What's the problem?

Ghotistix, I've just received your PM.

My comments:

If you have rules, they need to be applied with consistency, not when it suits you. Overwise, people think you're taking the piss. That's my advice to you, old chap.

I hope that doesn't offend.

oh dear - i feel i'm about to be accused of cliquedness, any minute now...

however, i have to point out that making negative personal comments is against the TOS:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/modules.php? ... opic&t=419

and, as the comment mentioned is both personal and negative, that ghotistix is right to challenge it.

on another point - as far as i am aware (and i am), ghotistix has only posted a couple of times as Moderator, and thus the accusation of inconsistency can't be valid: one needs more than one or two occurences to show inconsistency.

i also think it's unproductive to start any of the elitism-due-to-"severity"-of-diagnosis type of discussion - none of us knows what it's like to be someone else, whether on this board or not, and we all have our difficulties and our strengths (whether we recognise them or not). (and if anyone feels the urge to say that i would say that, cos i haven't been diagnosed with anything, then feel free, if it serves any purpose).

Vivi
(as Mod)

It's tempting!


My comments were based on good evidence. Also, I didn't assert my opinion as fact: I did not say "you are selfish" nor did I say "you don't know all about it". I've seen a lot worse here, and had a lot worse directed at me. You know as well as I do that those "rules" could be applied in this way to practically anyone, especially if they step on a moderator's toes.


Exactly. There's plenty of other times he could of posted, but didn't.




Unproductive for some, maybe. But for others it explains an awful lot.

You know, to take me to task for just saying someone seems selfish (when within the context of the discussion they did) just seems plain ridiculous.

While i have no comment or complaints on the moderating done here i hope people can now see that the backslapping threads are a bad idea to get into for moderators and soon to be moderators because when they say how much they love this one and that one and then stick up for the same people as moderator's it could leave other members here suspicious that possibly friendships could play a role when it comes to decissions.

The names that are reccurent in the 'congratulations all round' threads do seem to have a higher than usual take up rate for fellow backslappers and mods defending and agreeing with them to the hilt. Technically there is usually mild criticisms on the 'favoured' person but as ascan pointed out these warnings could be used a lot more often at other times but dont seem to be, particularly when 'favoured' members are doing the attacking and when the 'unfavoured' members are being critisized. I can easily see how this could lead to accusations of bias.