I dont like the mother my son requires me to be
Sweetleaf
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Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,157
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
As a child I found it impossible to comply if someone was screaming at me in fact I found it impossible to do anything at all other than cover my ears or nothing if being screamed at. So I would say keep this in mind if the child is not complying while you scream at them.
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Metal never dies. \m/
MMJMOM - I don't have any advice (my sone is only 3 1/2 yo so we haven't gotten to this point yet) but I wanted to give you some ((hugs)). My heart goes out to you. These situations are hard on the children but they are also hard on the parents. I know you only want the best for you child and this must be tearing you all apart. I hope and pray that you will be able to find a solution for you and your family. Until then, just try and take it one day at a time.
Sorry, me again.

This comment got me thinking. In attachment parenting, the whole "consequences" thing is downplayed, especially when there isn't a logical connection. Maybe the fact that it works better to say simply, "TV time is over," or "dinner time" without anything else is because there is no real logical connection / cause and effect between whatever your child is doing, what you want him or her to do, and the what the consequence or reward is. In other words, your child might not get what being able to watch TV has to do with washing hands. Also, keeping track of the next event disappears when your child is involved in something. So I would forget the TV either as a first event or a reward. Just say "time to wash your hands," and if it takes a long time, say, "are you washing your hands? Great!" then, "Are you almost finished washing your hands?"
One of the things I've learned about parenting is to control my own impatience and reactions. It's much easier than trying to control someone else's behaviour, and much more fair to everyone involved. So build in the extra time each task seems to take for an ASD or an ADD child who is so interested in all the surrounding possibilities.
My daughter (who is an Autism Intervention Worker) keeps telling me to make a visual schedule. It doesn't seem necessary for us right now, but that might help to establish a clear pattern of what needs to be done: TV time, start and finish, washing hands, supper etc. You can prompt by asking your child where s/he is on the list and what time the next thing starts.
Jo-Anne
I think the major part of this problem is that the child won't comply when he is asked nicely. What is parent supposed to do when they try every nice means they can think of and the child still refuses to do something that is important? I'm not trying to berate you in any way, I am asking you honestly because your insight could really help. If someone asks you nicely to do something and you don't feel like doing it right then do you just ignore them?
Sweetleaf
Veteran

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,157
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
I think the major part of this problem is that the child won't comply when he is asked nicely. What is parent supposed to do when they try every nice means they can think of and the child still refuses to do something that is important? I'm not trying to berate you in any way, I am asking you honestly because your insight could really help. If someone asks you nicely to do something and you don't feel like doing it right then do you just ignore them?
Well it usually not that I didn't feel like doing it, it was more like doing it too slowly, getting distracted or feeling unable to do it due to being overwhelmed. Then of course there are the times a kid is doing it on purpose which autistic kids are also capable of, maybe its a bit hard to tell the difference.
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Metal never dies. \m/
I dont abuse my son. I dont scream all day long. He is loved and shown love more then anything else. He is given every great opprotunity and comes from a loving, caring, secure family. There are times when I HAVE to yell to get thru to him. And as I stated, I HATE IT!! ! It goes against everyting I am. There are times I HAVE to threaten his videon games or he WILL not comply. My kid gets EVERY opportunity, we are going broke paying every professional we can to help, not just HIM, US as well. We are only human, and stresed out to the max. It is completely different being a PARENT in the situation I am in. I cannot convey it all thru a post, but as I have stated my son is NOT abused, he is loves cared for and taken care of better then most kids with no issues. If I didnt care I wouldnt be asking questions, I woudnt be searching for answers. This am was a rough one with him, there has been NO YELLING since then. I dont yell and scream all day long or I wouldnt have a voice. He has had NOTHING but fun all day today, he is over it, I am the one sad and upset that I had to threaten and yell in order for him to follow ONE request.
My son is given every chance and opportunity, he gets specialists and groups, and I am a HUGE advocate for him. He is LOVED, hugged kissed told how wonderful he is, how swwet he is, how much we love him frequently. He gets to indulge in his special interests, he gets catered to, freinds over, anything he wants. I am a parent who apologizes and explains to my kid why I am upset, etc...
I posted for ideas, not judgement, you have no idea you dont live with us.
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Dara, mom to my beautiful kids:
J- 8, diagnosed Aspergers and ADHD possible learning disability due to porcessing speed, born with a cleft lip and palate.
M- 5
M-, who would be 6 1/2, my forever angel baby
E- 1 year old!! !
I think the major part of this problem is that the child won't comply when he is asked nicely. What is parent supposed to do when they try every nice means they can think of and the child still refuses to do something that is important? I'm not trying to berate you in any way, I am asking you honestly because your insight could really help. If someone asks you nicely to do something and you don't feel like doing it right then do you just ignore them?
Well it usually not that I didn't feel like doing it, it was more like doing it too slowly, getting distracted or feeling unable to do it due to being overwhelmed. Then of course there are the times a kid is doing it on purpose which autistic kids are also capable of, maybe its a bit hard to tell the difference.
When the problem is being distracted or overwhelmed, what could someone do to help you get on task?
My son is given every chance and opportunity, he gets specialists and groups, and I am a HUGE advocate for him. He is LOVED, hugged kissed told how wonderful he is, how swwet he is, how much we love him frequently. He gets to indulge in his special interests, he gets catered to, freinds over, anything he wants. I am a parent who apologizes and explains to my kid why I am upset, etc...
I posted for ideas, not judgement, you have no idea you dont live with us.
This may not help with your son but maybe it will help you. Do you know anyone you trust who you could leave your children with and have a date night with your DH? As much as we love our kids, DH and I have a date night once a month where we go out, enjoy ourselves and do not talk about anything kid related while we are gone. I know it helps our marriage and our sanity. Unless you are the parent of a special needs child, it's hard to know the stress a parent is under. But I firmly belive that unless I am in a good place mentally and emotionally, I am useless to my children. Maybe once you are away from the situation for a while, you can approach it with a clear head.
Ugh, I'm so, so, sorry. I was there several years ago, we had a good run for a while, and now we're back. I HATE being that kind of mother, too. Hugs.
Lots of people mentioned a visual schedule here - I'm curious, have you tried it? Have you tried writing him notes and slipping them to him instead of yelling? These things did and do work for us - but in the summer when I'm Mom 100% of the time, it's a little harder for ME to remember. We do have consequences, too, but we have to tweak them very carefully because if they're too stringent, he gives up and if they're inconsequential, they are useless. Right now, when I'm done counting down, I count up - and he loses 5 cents from his allowance for every number. We also take minutes off game time if he doesn't comply with closing the game in time.
I also spell it out: Do one more thing, and then turn it off (shoot one more time, jump one more time, etc.)
Another thing we do: when he hurts my feelings, I tell him so, and if I feel like crying, I don't hide it anymore. He doesn't like the yelling, but he doesn't make the connection between me getting to a point that I'm yelling and him having hurt my feelings with dismissive or rude language.
I so wish I had the ability to focus right now. Perhaps some time this weekend. I am unable to read the posts right now, so some of this may have been covered, or maybe someone will have said something that would make me rethink what I am about to say. But in the event that anything I have to say might help, I want to say it.
Up until about the age of 7 or 8, my son pushed me to tears on a daily basis. Seriously, I simply didn't know what to do with him anymore. The weird thing is that he is really a great kid. But especially from 3 to about 5 some days I felt just like you: I don't want to be this person. This crazy yelling person. I think the only reason the seriously craziness with him ended at 5 is because that was about the time my daughter was diagnosed and then I was so busy with her, he kind of faded into the background.
Here are things that have helped:
1. I do not yell. I feel like yelling and I feel like if I don't yell, nothing will ever happen, but I do not yell. Instead, after the 5 minute warning, the 3 minute warning, the 2 minute warning, and the one minute warning, I give a final choice that goes like this: "TV time is now over. It is time for your shower. You can walk to the bathroom, or I will carry you." If he (now she because this is more an issue for my daughter now) does not get up, I pick her up without a word, without a facial expression, without a sigh, without anything. I go straight to the bathroom and I proceed to get her in the shower with no words at all. This is perhaps what was meant by talk less and explain less. My son can argue all day long. And that is no exaggeration. At some point, arguing needs to stop and action needs to begin.
2. I remind myself, as frequently as necessary, that what I am seeing is not an argumentative, disobedient, bratty kid (sorry, that's how they look in the moment). I am seeing a kid with frontal lobe dysfunction. A kid who has a hard time switching attention from one thing to the next. A kid who needs my help.
3. If he can read, charts work. "You must do all of your after dinner tasks before you can get on the internet." Both my 6 year old and 10 year old can follow this. I don't have to tell them anything. I just keep referring them back to the chart until everything is done.
4. I remember that for my son, things need to make sense. He misses subtleties. So he has to reason his way through things. Oftentimes his questions are not meant to be argumentative. He is trying to understand. He sounds argumentative, but he is really just trying to figure out how to process what is going on. I remind myself of this.
5. I allow for some degree of questioning on some things. But then I will say "One more question, then we are done discussing."
6. Sometimes I give in to him. Because in talking to him, I realize he is right and I am wrong. Or I realize he has a very valid point. This flexibility helps him be more flexible himself.
7. I always try to remember that every moment in life can be a teachable moment and that I am modeling behaviors for both of my kids. This means that when I do mess up and yell, it is followed with an apology and a discussion about what led me to yell and how things might have gone differently. I do not focus the blame on them. I focus on what I could have done differently.
8. I try to re-package his behavior in a more positive light. My daughter is very stubborn. Which becomes "she has a strong sense of individuality." My son argues. Which becomes "he will never mindlessly follow the crowd."
My son, btw, is like a completely different boy at this point (10). He still questions a lot, but somehow it is no longer in a way that makes me want to rip the hair out of my head. Hang in there.
I think the major part of this problem is that the child won't comply when he is asked nicely. What is parent supposed to do when they try every nice means they can think of and the child still refuses to do something that is important? I'm not trying to berate you in any way, I am asking you honestly because your insight could really help. If someone asks you nicely to do something and you don't feel like doing it right then do you just ignore them?
Well it usually not that I didn't feel like doing it, it was more like doing it too slowly, getting distracted or feeling unable to do it due to being overwhelmed. Then of course there are the times a kid is doing it on purpose which autistic kids are also capable of, maybe its a bit hard to tell the difference.
Yeah I don't start screaming till it really starts getting ridiculous. It's like my last resort.
Mostly she gets EXTREMELY distracted and I'm not sure what to do to keep her on task when she cant get through washing her hands or changing her underwear without getting diistracted.
Another thing that may or may not be useful.
With my son, if he gets reprimanded/scolded/corrected/yelled at/whatever, and it is justified, he never cries. He sits there with a sullen look on his face and if you ask him about it later, he will say he was mad or disappointed in himself for getting in trouble. If he cries, however, I know I have made a mistake and failed to see something important. Usually, I back off at that point and tell him we can talk when he "gets a grip" as he calls it. Then when he is done crying, we talk about why he was crying. Usually, I learn a lot about how he was processing things at the time. And most of the time, I was missing a vital piece of information from his perspective.
This does NOT work with my daughter, however. She cries every time she perceives herself to be reprimanded. I say "perceives" because many times, I am not even reprimanding her. I am just failing to follow whatever script she has in her head. It does't matter if it was a deserved reprimand or not. It just matters that she was corrected.
Yeah, my boy still speaks in a lot of echolalia so I don't the same sort of back-talking (he just tells me to "go to bed!" when I don't let him have his way), but he'll be sweet as can be one minute and throwing a tantrum and completely irrational the next. The name of this thread sounds like something I'd say. (hugs) There's so many fun things I'd like to do with him and teach him but he makes it impossible. As for using the word comply ... I use the word cooperate. Hand washing, tooth brushing, bedtime, offering new foods, meal time, bath time, getting into his car seat, staying with us in stores among others are all things that set him off.
Up until about the age of 7 or 8, my son pushed me to tears on a daily basis. Seriously, I simply didn't know what to do with him anymore. The weird thing is that he is really a great kid. But especially from 3 to about 5 some days I felt just like you: I don't want to be this person. This crazy yelling person. I think the only reason the seriously craziness with him ended at 5 is because that was about the time my daughter was diagnosed and then I was so busy with her, he kind of faded into the background.
Here are things that have helped:
1. I do not yell. I feel like yelling and I feel like if I don't yell, nothing will ever happen, but I do not yell. Instead, after the 5 minute warning, the 3 minute warning, the 2 minute warning, and the one minute warning, I give a final choice that goes like this: "TV time is now over. It is time for your shower. You can walk to the bathroom, or I will carry you." If he (now she because this is more an issue for my daughter now) does not get up, I pick her up without a word, without a facial expression, without a sigh, without anything. I go straight to the bathroom and I proceed to get her in the shower with no words at all. This is perhaps what was meant by talk less and explain less. My son can argue all day long. And that is no exaggeration. At some point, arguing needs to stop and action needs to begin.
2. I remind myself, as frequently as necessary, that what I am seeing is not an argumentative, disobedient, bratty kid (sorry, that's how they look in the moment). I am seeing a kid with frontal lobe dysfunction. A kid who has a hard time switching attention from one thing to the next. A kid who needs my help.
3. If he can read, charts work. "You must do all of your after dinner tasks before you can get on the internet." Both my 6 year old and 10 year old can follow this. I don't have to tell them anything. I just keep referring them back to the chart until everything is done.
4. I remember that for my son, things need to make sense. He misses subtleties. So he has to reason his way through things. Oftentimes his questions are not meant to be argumentative. He is trying to understand. He sounds argumentative, but he is really just trying to figure out how to process what is going on. I remind myself of this.
5. I allow for some degree of questioning on some things. But then I will say "One more question, then we are done discussing."
6. Sometimes I give in to him. Because in talking to him, I realize he is right and I am wrong. Or I realize he has a very valid point. This flexibility helps him be more flexible himself.
7. I always try to remember that every moment in life can be a teachable moment and that I am modeling behaviors for both of my kids. This means that when I do mess up and yell, it is followed with an apology and a discussion about what led me to yell and how things might have gone differently. I do not focus the blame on them. I focus on what I could have done differently.
8. I try to re-package his behavior in a more positive light. My daughter is very stubborn. Which becomes "she has a strong sense of individuality." My son argues. Which becomes "he will never mindlessly follow the crowd."
My son, btw, is like a completely different boy at this point (10). He still questions a lot, but somehow it is no longer in a way that makes me want to rip the hair out of my head. Hang in there.
This is freaking brilliant.
I wish I was more capable of doing #1, or that if I physically touched my son it wouldn't escalate into a violent episode (our house rule "no angry touching." for anyone.) I was doing really well for a while, it is important to re-frame things the way you stated them and to keep doing so.
What I do now, if DS refused to do what I need him to do and I have the wherewithal to do it: I go on strike. He gets nothing from me (no food, no access to transportation, etc.) until he does, and I remind him of that. The logic generally sinks in.
I'm like that so I know where you're coming from, however my son is not and I don't think the OP's is either. Maybe you'd have to experience this sort of behavior first hand, but it is quite different and would try the patience of a saint. Edit: Not saying screaming is the answer, just that that it's not the cause of the problem.
This is freaking brilliant.
Aw, shucks!

All of that took years to gain. And I have not perfected it yet.
Another thing I do is I allow myself to thoroughly revel in the things that I love about my kids that are likely the direct result of their wiring. I usually will not talk about this because it comes off wrong, as I recognize that it is socially inappropriate for a mother to openly state that her kid is better than other kids, but I hope it will help someone. But the truth is, I think my son is better than other kids. By "better," I mean more moral. He has a very strong sense of justice and he will stand firm in his beliefs no matter what anyone says. And because he has a kind heart and a gentleness to him...well...it just makes him better than most boys his age. An example of this was one time in an after school program he was in, there was only one girl. The boys started a "boys only" club and every one of them joined, except my son. Now, he desperately wanted to be included with the boys. This was around the age of 7 and that was when he started to realize he was different. But he could not get past the fact that it was wrong to leave one person by themself. Wrong. He could not get past it. Even when the other boys said they would not be his friend if he didn't join the club. The thing is, he didn't even particularly like this girl. He just couldn't tolerate the injustice. I know this is all related to his tendency toward black and white thinking and the naivete that is related to his tenuous grasp on social interactions. But I simply LOVE this about him, so I will gladly put up with the less fantastic parts about his wiring because I would never want him to lose the parts I love. Never.
My point is sometimes when things get rough, I force myself to pause and see something else. To see something other than the defiant, argumentative boy in front of me. Because that is just part of who he is. And sometimes when things get rough, I stop and I think "My gosh. He has had to work so hard his whole life. My poor boy. If I feel frustrated and angry, I can only imagine how he feels." There were actually times when he was younger that his defiance brought me to tears, not out of frustration, but because I simply felt so bad for him.
I don't want anyone reading this to think I pity my children, because I don't. But when I am frustrated, angry, and upset, I try to summon up some more tender feelings. It helps give the picture balance, I think.
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