I dont like the mother my son requires me to be

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zette
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20 Jul 2012, 7:56 pm

One thing that strikes me about the OP's example is that he is being asked to move from a very preferred activity (video games) to something that is possibly very non-preferred (bath). Is there any way to move bath time so that video games don't preceed it? Perhaps first thing in the morning after getting out of bed? Or he can't start the video game until after he's finished his bath?

For our DS6, the warnings to get off the video game in 10, 5, 2, 1 minutes were pretty useless. Instead, we've found it works to say "Find a stopping place". I think at first he would try to stretch it out, making the stopping place the end of a level (which could take 15-20 minutes or more), so I countered it with "Find a stopping place now or I will pause the game." I probably did a backward count from 5 that lasted about 15-20 seconds, and when I got to 0 I would hit the + on his controller to pause the game. A few times I had to actually turn the main unit off, which causes him to lose all his progress, and deal with the resulting meltdown. Now he is very good about finding a stopping place within about 30 seconds, which works for me. Talk to your ABA person about how to structure this.

We're still struggling with the overall amount of video games he is playing -- I need to find a way to make some time for reading practice because he is very behind -- but at least it is not a struggle to get him to stop any more.

momsparky
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20 Jul 2012, 9:27 pm

zette wrote:

We're still struggling with the overall amount of video games he is playing -- I need to find a way to make some time for reading practice because he is very behind -- but at least it is not a struggle to get him to stop any more.

Zette, we have a minute-for-minute read/game time - one hour for Friday, Saturday and Sunday. For the rest of the week during the summer, he gets 1/2 hour of game time for 15 minutes and 3 pages of schoolwork (cursive practice and math practice right now.) We drew up a contract, wrote it all down, had him sign it. Thus far, it has worked well.

Chronos
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21 Jul 2012, 12:30 am

What if, instead of yelling, you just took the iPad, grabbed him by his arm and led him upstairs?
He will probably cry either way but at the very least you relieve yourself of having to yell.

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21 Jul 2012, 12:33 am

zette wrote:

A lot of games have involved story lines that require reading both the story, and game strategy books.

angelgarden
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21 Jul 2012, 2:21 am

A number of people gave some great suggestions. All I am going to say is that I have felt the same way at times. I don't LIKE the way I have to be so persistent and strict with my son. But it is what works for him. I used to yell more, but with all of the speech, OT, stuff I've been reading on this boards and elsewhere, we've made some good changes that have been helpful for us all. As one said, we do try to do the thing he most wants AFTER the thing he most dislikes. As with your son, it's video vs. bath. :lol:
But I do understand what you mean. With my daughter, I am able to relax so much more. When I ask her to do something, she may fuss a little ONCE and when I say--'It's not an option. You have to right now.' She immediately says, 'Ok, mom.' and does it. She is two years younger than he is and so much easier to enjoy in that respect.
I adore my son to pieces. I love it that he THINKS so much. But it does produce great challenges at this age. At 5 he is his own little professor with his own agenda and does not like it to be interrupted. It has helped that we have changed the order of things around, and we get much better following of the 'rules' that help the whole family. And I feel a lot less angst. I am trying to allow myself--as one poster said--to have some guilt-free time away too. You must do that. ((Hugs))

MMJMOM
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21 Jul 2012, 7:25 am

THank you to everyone who wrote productive and helpful replies. I found some great ideas and info in this thread. I havent gotten the chance to comment on some, but I will do so today!

TO answer a few Qs, my son wakes up at 7am and starts IMMEDIATELY begging for electronics, iPad, DS, Wii....yesterday he was explained that he had to take a bath in the AM, and if he got the iPad he PROMISED to turn it off at bath time without any issues. Silly me, of COURSE there woudl be issues. On a rare occasion he actually WILL comply, and shut it off expecially if we go over beforehnad what we will do, etc...but yesterday he was extra dfficult. My mistake yesterday, I was a fool to believe he would be ok turning it off. He begs and cries and promises, it is so early we havent gotten antyhing done yet, and we USED to have a rule, no iPad, DS or aything like that till 6pm. This way he KNEW he had to behave in order to earn it. Recently he had a surgery that involves a lengthy recovery (doc said a month of NO physical activity), so basically he is home and all he CAN do is watch tv, play video games, etc...I cant really be too strict about the electronics casue he will literally have nothing else to do. A few more weeks and we can go back to our usual routine with the 6pm rule!

Also, I dont YELL every request. Most of the day I am calm as a cucumber, and I simply state that he has to do X in order to not lose his electronics, and even that I hate I feel as the whole day is a bribe. I feel like I dangle carrots (well, electronics) in front of his face (not literally of course) all day long, in order to get him to comply, and that is so not how I EVER viewed parenting. If I never yelled in a day, and there are days I dont every raise my vioce, I STILL hate "carrot dangling" as a form of parenting. And he will CRY rivers about how unfair I am that I dont give him his electronics sooner. I am usually even and calm to the point that people will be in shcock after spending a day or a few hours how calm I am in light of his behaviors, tone of voice, non compliance, etc...

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MMJMOM
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21 Jul 2012, 7:37 am

[quote="Sweetleaf

I hate to say this but with all the yelling and screaming you do to him...how is he supposed to learn anything other than being an angry negative person? I mean you tell him you'll punish him if he yells at you or growls but then you yell and scream at him all the time to get him to comply? I mean maybe none of you are really like that but he may very well have the impression you are a negative angry person.

And as for not responding are you sure he is ignoring when he does this? I mean with the autism he might have trouble responding I have heard of some autistic people having that issue so I would look into that before you treat it as some sort of thing he does to spite you.

What does the ABA therapist say about the screaming and threatening?[/quote]

I absolutely dont yell and scream all day long. Maybe 2x a day....if that. and THAT kills me. Sorry I made it sound like that is all I do. BUT I DO have to threaten his elevtronics all day long. I HATE parenting like this. I will very calmly and even toned say to him, "You have to do X right now, or the iPad will be taken away for today". He has wonderful role models about how to communicate, how to interact. I do my best on a daily basis, and when I crack we go over that too. I tell him mommy is sorry and that I got very frustrated becuase he wasnt responding, and it isnt the right way to talk and I Hope that next time we BOTH respond to eachother better. We go over everything, and I take responsibility for my part, something that he NEVER does.

The ABA tells me to do less explaining. To give LESS chances. To say, "Jayden in 5 minutes it will be bath time" To go back in 5 minutes and say, "Its bath time, now you need to go up the stairs and meet me in the bathroom". And if he doesnt reply, shut the electronic device and take it out of his hands. His theory is that he needs to learn that there are times when he needs to comply...bottom line. No explination necessary. I do a lot of talking thru the day, he has observed me talking Jayden thru everything, and told me to do LESS talking. I would normally say, "Jayden, its been a few days honey and your hair is getting stinky, you have freinds coming over later and I really need you to get in the bath this morning." He tells me to either do that BEFORE the request is made. Or not at all. Just tell him the warning so he is prepared, and then when to go, and if he isnt responding, take away his electronic device. He has also told me NOT to give ANY electronics unless he has worked for them. I agree, but this recovery after surgery has interfered with that.

Last edited by MMJMOM on 21 Jul 2012, 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

MMJMOM
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21 Jul 2012, 7:40 am

Sweetleaf,

the chair is in a different room, the entry way of the house, seperated by a gate. I USED to send him to his room for the time out but he hHATES going to his room. The ABA suggested sitiing him on the stairs or using a designated chair. I would RATHER send him to his room to calm, and we used to . I explained to him that the room as quieter, had a bed, his toys, privacy, etc....but he absolutely HATES being by himself. He prefers the chiar. IN fact the way I get him to comply and sit in the chair, casue he NEVER EVER goes when I ask him the 1st or 2nd time, is to say, "If you dont sit in the chair you will have to sit in your room. He will then go to the chair.

MMJMOM
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21 Jul 2012, 7:45 am

glasstoria wrote:

also- transitions are really, really, really hard, even as an adult. Even though I obviously as an adult know how to take a shower and am capable of it, at times my intention to shower is well meaning, but I get so distracted by 50 other things (sounds, objects, pets, interruptions of any kind) that I end up completely ignoring my best intention to take care of myself in this way. So please, please don't think that he is doing it to push your buttons, he simply may not be able to tear himself away from his activity and begin the process of whatever task you are asking.

Also, what is the cause of his anger towards his little sister? It could be something like, she interrupted his view of his game/tv by walking by him, which results in his agravation. Does he have tools for coping with this feeling of interruption, anger, and disturbance? He may need to be taught to identify his feeling, and learn that he is responsible for his reaction to his sister in very clear, specific terms. A rule like "we never use hands to hit" and teaching him that it feels "angry" when someone interrupts our activities, but we can choose to say "I feel angry, please don't walk in front of me" instead of lashing out or name calling could go along way towards your goals. Maybe he could practice role playing this Action, Feeling, Response with a stuffed animal (it is easier to feel safe and relate to pets and stuffed animals or other objects than people), so that he could start feeling more comfortable identifying his feelings, and working through his options as to a response that would be acceptable.

Yes we work on those identifying feelings every single day. He knows it if I ask him before he plays the game, but in the middle of video game play, he has NOTHING but raw emotion. YES simply her PRESENCE in the room will elicit a negative reaction from him. Jayden is amazing at role play, he comes up with insightful beautiful ideas for problem solving. He has yet to ever use on in the heat of a moment. Generalization I have been told, he hasnt generalized the skills. Great, how do you get one to generalize skills???? If I try to stop him in the middle of game play and ask, "Ok what do you do now" he explodes.

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21 Jul 2012, 7:51 am

Bombaloo wrote:

I'll throw out a couple of things that you may have already tried but maybe there will be something in here that you haven't:

A visual schedule of what is going to happen each day where playing the iPad is at a specific time. If you aren't doing this but are going to try, know that it will take a while before this seems to do any good but is useful for many once established.

We have a behavior chart where video game time is earned, the boys get a set amount of time for "showing up" and can add to that by doing things when I ask, like brushing teeth, or lose time for unacceptable behavior (hitting, spitting, name calling, etc.)

In the bath time scenario, what happens if you take the iPad and then just walk away? We have times similar to this but its not ALL the time like you are struggling with. DS will sometimes be angry when I stop him from playing the Wii and he will go to his room and rip up papers or slam the door (then if he is really mad he will proceed to kick it repeatedly which is the point where I intervene because I am afraid it is going to break into pieces and hurt him). If I let him cool off for a while he is often then in a more compliant mood and I can go back and tell him that it is now time to get in the bath.

Do you do any sensory diet stuff with him? When DS is particularly irritable, sensory diet stuff seems to help him regulate. If you are interested in my sensory diet list, let me know otherwise I won't post it because it is long. I am thinking that your son could really use some good physical activity, a punching bag comes to mind however that may be more encouragement for bad behavior if you are having trouble with him hitting his sister.

Do you think a visual timer would help more than your words for the warnings? http://www.timetimer.com/ Sometimes it helps for us if I set the timer when DS gets on the video game so he knows before he starts that time is going to be up when the timer runs out. I still give reminders but the visual cue of the timer seems to help.

That's all I got right now, sorry.

love these ideas, we used to have schedule and timers. but my son is a huge sticlker about the schedules and if somehting got cancelled, or didnt happen immediately, or out of order, he would have a fit. ALSO timers distract him and upset him. He watches them, keeps asking or complaining that the time is going down, or will obssess on needing to use the timer or coplain, cry and have a fit over the timer almost done....
He is kind of fixated on time, all day long, "Waht time is it, what time is it, what time is it now" he can read time and knows where every clock is, but he needs to hear ME tell him, repeatedly. Needs to know exactly when people are coming, or we are going, or when we will be someplace, etc...time and timers are a double edged sword with him.

ABA told me to write on the schedule that the schedule can and might change at any time, and that he gets extra bonus for following schedule and any changes with a smile!

Becuase tantrums, fits and hysteria would happen if he had an appt scheduled for the day and the time changed, or he had Speech that day and they speech therapist called out, etc...sometimes the schedule made him too anxious and changes pushed hiim over the edge. Same with time and timers!

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21 Jul 2012, 7:53 am

MMJMOM wrote:

The ABA tells me to do less explaining. To give LESS chances. To say, "Jayden in 5 minutes it will be bath time" To go back in 5 minutes and say, "Its bath time, now you need to go up the stairs and meet me in the bathroom". And if he doesnt reply, shut the electronic device and take it out of his hands.

I agree with this and it works here. One reason is that there are circumstances in which compliance should be expected without arguing. 8:30 is bedtime every night. So when I tell you it's bedtime, there is no reason to discuss it. It's because that is the rule.

But even when it comes to things that are not so cut and dry, explanations do not work in the heat of the debate because I find that no one is interested in hearing what the other person is saying (including me, but particularly him because he is a kid), but both sides are interested in achieving their goal. So talking about the "why" works better before the power struggle begins. As in "Tomorrow morning after breakfast, we are going to go to the dentist. It is important that we keep our teeth and mouth healthy and the dentist is the person who helps us do that. What questions do you have?" Then work it all out. Not tomorrow morning when it's time to go to the dentist.

Don't feel so bad about the "bribing." Life is all about currency. I certainly don't work for free LOL! Using "currency" also helps engrain the idea of cause and effect which is sometimes difficult for our kids to grasp.

My kids are both very rule bound. It circumvents a lot of this kind of stuff. Would it make life easier for you to go back to your rules and just adjust them for now since he is recuperating? Or maybe only allow his least preferred "allowable" activity (like tv watching instead of DS) immediately preceding least preferred tasks. I like TV for that purpose because it has a definite end. I have lots of 30 minute shows on he DVR so I can say "One episode of My Little Pony, then we are leaving for the grocery store."

MMJMOM
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21 Jul 2012, 7:56 am

CockneyRebel wrote:

Deleted because I was being a heartless monster and I hurt a .lot of people in this thread. I should know better than to post in threads like these. I'm very sorry. I have issues from my own childhood.

I dont think you are a heartless monster, and I am sorry that you had some bad experinces as a child, so did I and that is why it pains me so much to have to raise my voice even ONCE a day. People who know me in real life would read my OP and laugh, casue even what I CONSIDER yelling, they dont. FOr me, raising the tone even a notch is yelling. SO, even professionals in mhy HOME watching me, and I dont hold back I do what I normally do, have told me I am too clam and even toned or soft spoken! And here I am FEELING like I am yelling, and I am really not even yelling!

Sometimes it is hard to protray it all in a post. There is SOOOOO much more that goes on in our house then my OP, but I was very upset by an interaction this am, and probably made it sound worse then it really is.

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21 Jul 2012, 7:59 am

Bombaloo wrote:

CockneyRebel wrote:

Autistic children who are abused like that grow up to be extremely sensitive people, maybe too sensitive. If you want your son to grow up to look and be like the very sensitive Mick Avory of The Kinks, go ahead and keep abusing him the way that you are.

If you want your son to grow up to be strong and resilient like Bill Gates, you've got to make major changes to your approach. Do you want your son to be unusually sensitive and have flashbacks about your yelling and a dower looking face 95% of the time, or do you want your son to be a happy person who's successful and in control at all times.

If you frown, your face stays like that. I imagine that your son is doing a lot of that because he's never happy.

I think the part of the OPs post where she says that she starts off every interaction nicely is being overlooked here. I get how she is feeling. You try nicely for 45 minutes to get something accomplished that really needs to be accomplished and eventually you reach your wits end. It is NOT ok for a 6 yo to sit and play video games ALL day and not eat, bathe or do anything else. IMHO letting him play video games all day is not any better than yelling at him. I can understand why people are having this reaction to her posts but let's get beyond the "its not good to yell at him" theme and try to offer more constructive input. She gets that it is not good to yell at him. I try very hard with my son to always address things in the positive, i.e. tell him what TO do instead of telling him what NOT TO do. Let's try to employ the same principal here.

THANK you for understanding the ROOT of my issue. And for reading my post thur and not getting stuck on one aspect of it, and for remembering htat I said I start off EVERy interaction nicely, as I do. A million thank yous for getting the point of my post.

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21 Jul 2012, 8:06 am

postcards57 wrote:

I know how you feel. I had the same impression, and sometimes still feel pressured to parent my child with ASD differently from the others. My dd is almost 13, and the youngest of a large family. Before we got her diagnosis, I would try the gentle and positive parenting approaches I knew and had used successfully with the others (attachment parenting, natural parenting, a bit on the permissive side) but she didn't seem to respond to them. In other words, she didn't do what I hoped she would. Then I would become the kind of parent I didn't want to be, using punishment (time outs) and rewards--and not enough of the latter--and 1-2-3 Magic, which basically meant "counting her off." I would say, "I'm counting to three, and if you aren't in bed by then I will come and put you in bed." She even seemed to take delight in waiting until I got to two and then running into her room. With my older children, I would say, "I need you to go to bed at nine o'clock, because..." and yadda yadda yadda. Lots of explanations, some negotiation and then they would go to their room (or ours, since we co-sleep with our children when they are little). By the time they were 10 or 12 we could give them the freedom to choose their bedtime because they knew they would be tired in the morning if they didn't get enough sleep. With her I really worried about the lack of "compliance" (and I've come to hate that word, like other people here) when I tried to do the same thing, and her "bad" decisions when I let her choose her bedtime.

Then, when we got her dx, everything I read was geared to younger children and other parenting styles, involving clear instructions and rigid consequences. I was not comfortable with a lot of those suggestions, because they would mean parenting her differently, and in my opinion less gently and lovingly, from my other children.

It was my dh who pointed out to me that our dd did so much better when we reduced our demands. Because that's what they were. In trying to use behavioural / strict parenting methods, we had come to *not* expect / trust her to do what was right and had taken away her freedom to make decisions on her own. She was so much easier to live with when we said "yes" and "great!" more often than "no," "don't" and "wrong."

We also realized that she was not the child described in a lot of the literature on ASD. So instead of basing our parenting on "that" ASD child, we returned to methods more natural to us. We became a lot more positive, and focused on all the things she liked doing and did well. We tuned into her needs, tried our best to understand her when she was upset, and tried to give her support and guidance to do what she wanted rather than instructions to do what we wanted. There are times when clear guidelines are necessary, and I usually text her messages like: "Time for supper!" In return she texts me "Can I go to the store?" etc. But I don't punish her for not coming to supper right away; I try to figure out her reasons (and yes, that means assuming she has good, valid reasons) and stay flexible. You know, it really doesn't matter if she eats right away. I think she has trouble dealing with the emotion around negotiation and explanation, so I try to be as neutral and pleasant as I can. We also talk about emotions and behaviours by watching TV and criticizing the stupid things characters do. :-)

I have learned that she has a very strong moral code, and figure that all the time I thought she couldn't care less about pleasing me she was actually probably upset about "messing up" when she misbehaved.

It helps that we have very rules in our house. I can now feel confident when I tell her "I don't make a lot of rules, but the ones we have are important," because I say that to the other kids as well.

I'm sorry this is so long, but your post hit a nerve because I was convinced I would never figure out how to parent my youngest dd, and that made me feel like a bad parent, which seriously affected my motivation and confidence to keep trying until I found the "right" way to deal with her. The fact that it was the same way I had always parented makes things a lot easier for me, but I do want to encourage you to try gentle, loving guidance (or attachment parenting) if you haven't tried already; with a bit of tweaking (the addition of some shorter, neutral requests) it can work really really well.

Good luck!
J.

thank you for this post! I am exactly what you described! I am an atachment parenting parent, and that 1-2-3 magic book kills me, but let me tell you lately once I start to count my son JUMPS! He knows my 3 he is either in the chair or his room, or will lose an electronic deivce. NEVER EVER did I want to parent him like that.

I do positives all day, sometimes if I do a positive, "WOW< that was great how you shared with your sister!" he will immediately grab the toy from her. Somewhere in my gut I feel ODD plays a part in him as well. It is a 50/50 toss up. Sometimes when I praise and point out al the good, he will immediately do the oposite, and sometimes he will smile and go to 10 more good things. Cant ever predict what reaction I will get from him.

But I am an APer, and this is the root of WHY it pains me to be antying else. And look, all my APing did NTOHING, but counting 1-2...and he jumps. I dont get it???

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21 Jul 2012, 8:09 am

CockneyRebel wrote:

It's the fact that the mother does end up yelling in the end and he has to hear the yelling all day long. He feels that his mum hates him and that he's a bad person. He feels that he's a disappointment and an embarrassment to his mother. He doesn't feel loved at all. He feels like a piece of crap right now. He feels that he has no safe place to turn. He wakes up every morning and he knows that his mum is going to be yelling at him all day long.

I apologize about my original post. I came across as being an ignorant jackass. I felt like I was being attacked from my own mother when I read the original post. I was very blunt in the way that I responded. I had to walk on eggshells around my parents, in order to try not to piss them off. I said it like it was and I couldn't think of anything else to say. I've also deleted my original post because I feel really guilty about what I've posted and I wish that I've never posted in this thread. I feel like a horrible person now. I'm never posting in the Parenting Section again. This section brings back painful memories and it's best if I stay away from it in the future.

My heart is racing right now and there's a lump in my throat. I'd better go.

Just want to assure you my son KNOWS I love him and the last thing he would think is I hate him. If you ask him he would say nothing but good about me, which shocks me casue I feel horrible sometimes about having to count, threaten electornics, etc...I will even TELL the therapists, but I yell, but I have to take away his things, etc...and all he does is smile, and say how good everything is. I think I internalize this stuff and he gets upset int he moment and is over it after.

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21 Jul 2012, 8:13 am

Well, if you think about it, attachment parenting is all about creating a social bond and social communication, and that's specifically the deficit of autism.

The problem with parenting theories in general is that there is no one way to parent. Each parent is different and each child is different. Some kids thrive on attachment parenting and are comforted by it, and some kids are comforted by rules and schedules and order. Sometimes you have a parent who is one way, and a kid who is the other way and you have to find a way to compromise.

What I'm struggling with right now: DS seems to want attachment parenting, and seems to fight rules and schedules and order...but our lives go more smoothly if I lean towards the rules, etc.

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