School placement issues - Jr. High - expulsion

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I am seeking advice from anyone in the know.

My 11 year old son was diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome in 2004. His grade school was notified of this diagnosis two weeks later. Up until and after the diagnosis my son struggled to get along in class. Academically he was never a concern. He has a tendency to act inappropriately, speak out, refuse to do homework and he will negotiate his way through everything and anything.

Two weeks ago my son was removed from school for bringing a pocket knife to school. 6th grade has been extremely challenging for him. Socially he's very misfit. He has spent a great deal of time in detention over the years and absolutely no positive or negative reinforcement works. We've had co-plan after co-plan but the school has never once suggested a case study evaluation for a possible IEP. I didn't even know what this was until he was expelled and placed in an "alternative" school which does not have resources for Asperger kids. He is being treated like any other kid who brought a knife to school.

My question is this: When the school is notified of a diagnosis such as Asperger what is their responsibility? If the student is very smart but seemingly just "lazy" and a "discipline problem" what is my recourse? I thought until recently we had been doing anything and now they're willing to conduct the study.

If the Principal knew of the diagnosis, shouldn't he have looked at my son's issues a little harder? Possibly brought the situation to a higher level?

I'm in Illinois.

Thanks.

Heather

There may not be any choice in the matter depending on local & state law. He brought a knife to school.

The school should have created an IEP long ago to identify and address his issues. That won't change anything with regard to the knife situation, but hopefully everything else can be improved going forward.

AS kids are commonly missunderstood as being "lazy." They are not. There is usually some impairment related to the AS that keeps them from being able to produce work in the way that their verbal intelligence would suggest. This is exactly WHY an IEP is needed, to bridge that gap. Imagine how frustrated a child becomes being labeled lazy when they feel they have honestly done their best. He HAS to get out of that cycle.

AS kids are also commonly missunderstood as discipline problems when the reality is that they act out, usually, from an inability to cope and not from a desire to be disruptive. Many behaviors that a teacher might consider disruptive are actually stims that AS use to calm and self-regulate. Trying to push those behaviors under actually increases the possibility of real behavior issues, because now the child can no longer self-regulate.

See the cycle?

Start interviewing schools in your area to see if you can find one that understands AS and will give your child a fresh start. Once his AS is adapted for in the classroom his other school issues should go away. Hopefully he can also access services like speech, which is the discipline commonly used to teach social skills in middle school.

And ask him why he brough the knife. If he is anything like my child, to him it is probably something useful to carry and he has no idea how dangerous it can be. My son likes to carry a pocket knife on weekends - he has one for scouting, it's useful camping - but he knows it is prohibited at school and leaves it at home. He doesn't really "get" it, however, why that rule exists. But he knows he'd better follow it. He is totally clueless about all the social complications swirling around him at school, and I mean totally clueless, and he could easily get trapped into a dangerous situation. I really worry about it, to be honest, but at least his school is aware of how he is and how that can play out, and he has people watching out for him.

You need to contact an attorney who specializes in special education law. You may want to demand (in writing) a manifestation hearing. This is a hearing that determines whether the behavior in question was a manifestation of your son's disability. If it was, the school cannot treat it the same way as if it were simple misbehavior. It is appalling that your school district did nothing to evaluate your son after his diagnosis, in order to determine what accommodations and specialized instructions and/or supports he might need in light of this information that you provided. This has gone way beyond a situation that you can handle on your own, however, and you need professional support - immediately.

I'm sorry, but you can't blame EVERYTHING on Asperger's. The kid brought a knife to school, and you clearly don't have any discipline system set up. Positive and negative reinforcement works on any creature in the world who can think, including mice and parrots. There's no reason it should have gotten to this extreme.

Get in family therapy now. You need professional help to set up a discipline system that will work. Just making excuses and blaming the school system will not help him graduate school, get a job and be able to find success in life.

Mage, I know knives aren't allowed in school, but I don't think we know enough here to jump to all those conclusions. My son has a pocket knife for scouting, he is REQUIRED to bring it on scouting outings, and understanding why it would be considered "dangerous" in some different setting is beyond him - except that he does know it is a rule in many places, that he can't have it. He's just a kid - a very innocent one. A TOO innocent one, and an innocent who harbors no mean thoughts at all. We don't know yet if the boy in question is full of anger or just naive.

Expelled for bringing a pocketknife? That's a bit silly, I know many kids that have been seen with pocket knifes and nothing happened to them other than "put it away".

By the way, I was put into an alternative school once and it was NOT a good environment for me at all. The teachers were there to treat kids who were into drugs, teen pregnancies, etc. therefore did not know what to do with me. And they kept telling my mother that "something was wrong with me" and never once listening about AS... tried to pin it on me doing drugs or being abused. =| Anyway, not saying the school your child was sent to is similar (it could be completely different), just saying.

Mice and parrots are easy. When creatures, e.g. people, think, it's much harder to use positive and negative reinforcement successfully. Many people will disinvest from whatever "positive" reinforcement the authority figures have come up with; many will dig in their heels and refuse to care about the "negative" reinforcement. It becomes a power struggle, which, as you know, is the worst thing for our kids. "Thinking creatures" will perceive the positive and negative reinforcement structure as being manipulative, and they will resent it and refuse to participate in it. Additionally, much research suggests that when those methodologies are used, it can result in behavior that is not learned well, and that does not continue when the reinforcements are no longer in place. It is far more important, for some children, to be taught by other means.

My boy (15) does not understand reinforcements or repercussions most of the time.

He just does not correllate his bad grades with us not letting him play video games. In his head we're being incredibly mean and are arbitrarily taking away his video games, even after explaining daily that he's not allowed to play because he's flunking two classes. (Luckily we're coming out of winter and grades are coming up again.)

He rarely understand possitive reinforcements either. For some reason very little possitive verbal reinforcement gets through to him. Me, being new to the house and being quite unconventional seem to get through to him better than his father. He somehow reacts better to me telling him he's 'the sh!t' than his father telling him he's done a 'very good job'. It just sinks in better because it is not the norm.

So every child is different and I do not think anyone needs to be harsh and nasty - pointing fingers in such a mean way only makes things worse. I know it is easier to do so with the anonymity of the Internet, but it's still not cool or helpful.

If he has been struggling with behavior and/or social issues for quite sometime and they were aware of his diagnosis yet haven't done anything, then they have a certain amount of responsibility. If they haven't even evaluated why he is having the social and/or behavior difficulties or even just conducted a functional behavior assessment, I believe they have been negligent (just going on what you have said as I don't know the whole story and this is only internet).

I am not saying he is not responsible for his actions. Regardless, there are many case law rulings where the district ends up being responsible - very similar case law ruling from your situation. If the school hasn't even evaluated, they can't even determine if his dxed disability requires him to have specially designed instruction (could include social skills). You can't just decide that by a "feeling". They need documentation to show that. If they have "felt" that he is having conduct problems so he wouldn't be eligible, they are still only going on a feeling. That does not hold up in court. The fact that his behavior has taken him out of class which would then interfere with his access to a free and appropriate education makes me believe that they really haven't done everything they needed to do. I am not saying "sue them" or anything but there have been quite a few cases. Most school psychs and special ed directors know that. Most principals unfortunely lack in that knowledge.

I don't know the other side but do encourage you to get an advocate ASAP. Someone who can help you navigate the system. You probably could call the state department of education to ask them. It is possible that once the psych and/or special ed director become aware of the information that things may start to work out.

They may need to conduct a manifestation of determination meeting if he is out of his regular placement of ten days or more. Although that is usually done for individuals who are already on IEP's. That is a process where a group of individuals including you, meet and determine whether or not the dxed disability had something to do with his behavior (bringing a knife to school). I do believe that even though he doesn't have an IEP, he still has a disability which most likely warrants that manifestation meeting and an emergency eval. Again, I could be wrong about the Manifestation Meeting being needed in this case. Regardless of disability, that kind of action usually does warrant an alternative placement at least for a brief time while they are conducting the emergeny eval.

They could be backtracking right now as they may realize that an "emergency eval" is warranted at this time. Additional information is needed.

Most likely your school has been just looking at his academic scores/performance and going off that to say he didn't need an evaluation. Many schools and districts do that. They forget that the behavior and social skills component is just as important and some kids need to be taught those skills to succeed in the regular education setting. I wonder if that is what has been happening.

Even if an IEP has not been really needed, it would be nice and probably necessary to still have an evaluation and functional behavior assessment (to determine the theory to why he has been having certain behavior, establish patterns and have information to create a behavior plan).

Has the school psych been aware of this? What about the special ed director? I would actually encourage you to go to the special ed director with this one and get an advocate. You will likely get action.

I also second getting him some outside help. That is a wonderful idea. The school can only do so much. Based on your information, I don't believe they have done enough but even if they had, it probably wouldn't be enough.

Hang in there. Let us know what happens.

Last edited by natesmom on 09 Mar 2009, 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

You know what is funny I went to a school where pocket/pen knifes were allowed!. Swiss army were the most popular and the parents bought them. You wouldn't get that nowadays. It was part of woodcraft/woodsmanship type play. Most kids used them responsibly, but there was one guy with a screw loose that held me up and put it across my neck. It is one of those things where I'm not sure if he was playing around or not, but he was acting pretty serious. He could of slipped easily anyway.

This was long before all these kids taking in a knife they stole from the kitchen or hunting knifes the bought over the internet for “protection”. I swear most youth crime in developed countries is down to fantasy to escape boredom. These people don’t have real problems not like the kids in the developing countries I’ve lived in.

Students who have a disability are supposed to get protection under section 504 or IDEA so that they are not punished for behaviors that are related to their behavior, often they do not understand what is expected of them and do not learn by punishment. The school must develop a positive behavior intervention plan for the purpose of replacing negative behaviors with appropriate behaviors. Be very careful before agreeing to a behavior plan. Even though the concept is great the IEP Team can turn it into a nightmare. I had that happen to my son and I found out the hard way that having protections under IDEA is one thing but getting the school to do what they are supposed to is another. Lawyers who will go against the school system are practically nonexistant and some of them are just con artist. There is no government agency enforcing the law and unless you are lucky enough to be in a school system with an honest special education team once your kid hits middle school he'll be out the door. Maybe your state has advocacy groups that really do something but even in 2009 the state of Alabama still keeps it's legacy of abusing people who are vulnerable.

You're lucky in the sense that they didn't call the police. They could have done that and had him held for a psych evaluation. They do that where I live. My son used to flip out at school and his teacher would call me to get him. As they get older, it becomes more likely they will call the police, instead of the parent. I started homeschooling.

How is everything going??