I'm seriously attempting to make a game

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As the title states, I'm seriously attempting to make a game. Hopefully you'll find the wall below interesting...

My origin story:
I played my first computer game at the age of five, when I had to insert the floppy disk then boot the computer into DOS. Later I progressed to the consoles, Sega, PlayStation, Gameboy, while still playing RTS (Age of Empires) on the PC. Then things began being called NextGen and I was still playing. I played enough that I built a gaming PC.

Running along side all of this were my fantasy creations. I invented one or two games per year, which held my interest until the next big idea. Over the years I've had many hand-drawn maps, the largest being made from rolls of walpaper and was as large as a door. I even designed on holiday. Of course, when I discovered programming, some ideas became playable reality, though none were ever truly finished.

In recent years, I've experienced many great and epic stories, games with an interesting premise, games with excellent mechanics. But each of them had some small flaw, at least in my eyes, so I began pausing games and taking notes, until I realised that I had enough ideas to go out on my own course. So this is where I am now.


My game:
Sate of Decay meets Fallout meets northern mythology. Set in 2043, the game is a survival fantasy, where the survival mechanic is very prominent. Resource management, open world, puzzle solving, crafting (limited), strategy, combat, community management. My design document is currently 30 pages long, though my scrawled note and fevered drawings can be added to the ideas pool. I've invested money in it by paying artists to come up with some spectacular images, I've poured many, many hours of my own time in to it. This is my current obsession, it's not a full time job, it's my life. I'm going full-blown Tolkien on it.

There is a plot, though there is also a non-linear focus, with the ever-present objective of survival. In briefest summary, our survivors must prevent a war council forming, otherwise the remaining humans will be forced into a long war or simply be exterminated.


I could really do with feedback, questions, ideas, anything. If anyone wants to collaborate, I'd be happy to talk with you, though you must realise this project will be a commitment. I have a website here, if you want to take a look.

-Spock

Last edited by MisterSpock on 24 Jul 2016, 5:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

Assuming it would be an open world game like FO or SOD, i'd love to play it!

Norse mythology have been done in games quite a bit already, but that goes for most mythology.

Unless you hire/convince coders to work for you, it will end up being a paper project, unless you can sell the concept to some game development studio. I know that London has quite a few of them since i've been mostly buying a lot of indie games recently.

A have a friend like you, he talks and dreams about being a games developer but he cannot get his crap together and is also suffering from a depression. A real games dev i talked to said that over 90% of all games development projects fail and that funding has nothing to do with it - it's purely a question of motivation.

The past is a great and easy source of narratives. The trick is bringing originality to it, which I hope I have (as said by every writer ever). By creating a different mythology, and not having that mythology feature too heavily, I've hopefully reduced any parallels which could be drawn to other games. There's no Odin, Mjolnir, or Sleipnir, no mention of Ygdrassil, Valhalla, or the Aesir. Svartalfar and the Bifrost do not feature.


I'm not saying linear story-telling is dead, but a lot of players are looking for a tailored experience[citation needed?]. One of the main mechanics that I hope to implement is that if they player wants to do something, let them do it: no invisible walls, no dictated path. I think open-world games with a player-defined narrative are they way forward.


As for motivation, after the realisation of what a lifetime of work looks like, I (to paraphrase a popular meme) cannot let my dreams be dreams. If this doesn't happen, it won't be because of lack of motivation.

One thing I can tell you about something like this: It'll be stressful. Really stressful. I'm gonna ramble a bit here, sorry if this is long, but game design has always been a huge thing for me, so I may as well have a bit of story time here to get a certain point across...

I had a chance to do something like this recently... well, more than one, actually. A developer I'd been testing for (indie dev, and I was just volunteering) for a long time offered me a contract about 2 years ago, to help make an expansion for a certain game of theirs that had done well (The Last Federation, it's on Steam). My big thing, as gaming goes, is shmups, particularly those of the bullet-hell sort, and I know alot about game design in general. I was contracted to design full bullet/attack patterns for ships in the expansion, and considering that this game's battle system is a mashup of genres, bullet hell AND turn-based combat at the same time, this was... difficult. It definitely got stressful and more than a couple of times I ended up complaining alot about my own creations (the head developer found this entertaining).

It was eventually done though, expansion came out, did pretty well, people liked it.


And then at the end of last year, a new contract was offered, for a Binding of Isaac style game with a heavy bullet hell focus, and I was brought into that project. THIS time though, it was a full design role. As in, I had (and still have, content development continues currently) a good deal of control over what went into the game, and what didnt; very, very rarely did the head developer ever veto any of my decisions, since I know what I'm doing with this type of game. But I was (and still am) able to veto decisions by others (this still baffles me, that I ended up there). But I'd never been in this situation before. It wasnt the sort of thing where someone would TELL me what they wanted me to create for parts of the game. No, I had to come up with this stuff myself. I still remember asking, early on, "So, what do you want me to do first?" and the response came back as "Well, what is it you THINK you should do first? Whatever that is, do that" and with that, I had an inkling of what I'd just gotten myself into. This developer is not one to focus on huge strict design documents; I know alot of the "big devs", the major ones, do that, but alot of indie teams do not... it's really up to the developer's style, there's alot of ways of going about this. In this case, more of an overall "plan" but no strict document. So there was no set of direct instructions for me to follow, which... isnt something I'm used to. But development can be like that, as I've learned since then. The game did release (it's called Starward Rogue), and reviews we got of it have pretty much all been fantastic... heck, I love it myself, despite being *extremely* critical of my own work, which everyone else STILL thinks is funny... but the thing about it is, it was REALLY stressful. Particularly the two weeks leading up to release, which were just an endless nightmare spent in front of this damn machine. Release NEEDED to happen on a specific date, which is often how it goes, and some stuff was just not ready yet, which is also how it often goes. I remember the worst bit, some 40 minutes before the build was sent to Steam, the head dev says to me that certain changes really should probably be made to a certain major boss, for balance reasons for new players, and can I manage to do it in time? And my first thought was "Oh crap I'm gonna blow this whole thing up, arent I". I got the damn thing done like 5 minutes before it went out. THAT was a nasty moment, particularly the part where I'm thinking "oh god I hope it doesnt glitch out or something". It didnt though. But yeah, I was really drained after that. "Crunch time", I believe, is what that's called. LOTS of developers go through that crap from time to time. Unless you somehow manage to have zero deadline at all, which is very rare.

That's just a bit of an example of how this sort of thing can be... and remember, this isnt a big huge AAA developer, this is an indie developer. Granted, it's one that's been around for awhile now (most well known game is called AI War, which has like, what, 6 expansions now? Very good game, that...) but they dont make like, huge blockbuster 3D games with mind-blowing graphics. Most of their games are in 2D, but even so, there's a massive amount of effort (and money, even I got paid WAY too much for what I did, and I'm not even going to go into what the art stuff costs overall) and such involved in those. Any further beyond that, and things just get crazier. The more complicated the design scenario, the more resources you need, and the more experience you want to have. And also, it'll be that much more stressful (and often aggravating... screw bugs. All of them.)


The best advice I can give? Dont start with a huge, massive project. Get comfortable with design first... make something a bit smaller to start with. You're not just getting experience, but also kinda building up a "portfolio" that can then be behind any larger projects you might want to do. Often this is necessary when hiring people... they want to be sure that whoever they're working for really has the knowledge and experience to get this done, instead of the project somehow coming apart at the seams. By starting with smaller things, you can also get experience with specific concepts that you intend on then using in a larger project. The last thing you want to do is essentially shoot yourself in the foot by thinking "Hey, this bit here is a great idea" and then only later on realizing "Oh... I never thought of THIS part... this has all been for nothing, then". I've watched this happen twice now; not pretty. And the second time was NASTY; I wont go into detail, but that particular incident involved a project being put on indefinite hold, which did a good bit of financial damage, all because ONE concept (which was a major one) in the game turning out to just not... quite... work, within the context of what it needed to be. And this wasnt fully realized until like, 6 months in. "Ouch" doesnt sum it up. I was there for the whole thing. Trust me, you DONT want this one happening.

The other reason though to start with something small is more of a personal one, if that's the right word. You can essentially try it out, make sure that you yourself can indeed follow through, all the way from start to finish, no matter what may go wrong. As Ichinin says, alot of games fail during development. This is one of the reasons. It's one of those things where everyone that wants to make a game always THINKS they surely can do it, no problem, but then they dive in too deep, and, well... I doubt I have to paint a picture here.


One other thing you can do is some testing... I dont mean the "sign up to test our beta!" sort, or the "early access on Steam" sort, I mean the REAL sort, where you're working closely with the developers in a closed situation (which is where I started and why I got contracted) with constant and direct contact. You can see the process for yourself, see how it is for the devs in question, and get some ideas as to how it all works, how and why they make the decisions they do, and see what sorts of ideas YOU can come up with to help, and be in discussions with them (often involves email). And determine wether or not you like/enjoy the things you're helping with. Of course actually finding a developer to help in this way is the tough part, but they are out there. There's always someone that could use some help. Testing is IMPORTANT, after all.


Overall, if you're REALLY certain you can do this, then by all means, have at it! But I really strongly suggest NOT jumping in super deep right away. You risk major burnout and other problems, and that's not any good. In the end though, it's always up to you.

overall, it sounds like a good idea, just limiting the crafting side, like with resources that don't come back, that could eventually be exhausted, is always an off-putting concept for me, i always feel that my creativity within it is greatly hindered as i know that i can eventually run out, so won't make what i want to. if thats like a design choice and feels important though, keep it. id also say, how about the ability to play as other creatures including humans, perhaps mutants, or creatures that have become humanoid in nature due to the events? that way the players could better care about the residents of this world due to being able to be a part of them if they want to. take for example the alliance and horde of WoW, the Horde are the typical bad guys initially, but allowing the player to be a member of the horde and one of the races within it has allowed the playerbase to love the horde and even see them as the protagonists, but also like the alliance, so care what happens more.

will the game be a multiplayer experience? (mmo style or simply an option to play with friends?) because thats always something to consider, kind of lengthens the life span of the game. just saying haha.

@Misery
Not massive, but significant parts of my job (actual employment) involve testing and feedback, so I'm somewhat used to and certainly not afraid of getting stuck in with finding solutions with the "on the ground" devs. I understand it's a huge undertaking, which is why my first finish line is a proof-of-concept demo with approx 45 minutes of gameplay. That too, I know, is no small task. Thanks for yout input.

@randomeu
I suppose I used "limited" in both senses of the word; this is not an empire building game, but also supplies are finite. Let's say the player wants to build a shack. They must cut down a tree or two first, and they won't grow back. But what is one tree in a forest? Survival is a large part of the idea, so persistence and limited supplies was a design decision.
The player can make allies with some of the non-humans, so will hopefully invest time and emotion in that group. Another design decision means that the player would not be able to play as a non-human - the game just wouldn't work.
Multiplayer? It has been considered, but whether or not the experience would remain the same in multiplayer (co-op, not PVP) needs to be explored, along with technical feasibility. I want it to stay away from Day Z territory.

maybe, you might be able to find some potential coders in the technology forum, who might be interested

I might try that, but I thought that approaching the gamers (video or not) would provide better insight.

Sounds like one of my favorite rpg series Elder Scrolls, But instead of being based on greek mythology being based of off norse.

From the age of 9 to 14, I used to experiment with Game Maker a lot. I had a lot of interesting ideas and potential. My problem, however, was "game designers' block", where I get bored with one idea and want to move on with the next. When you have limitless freedom in the things that you can create, you may form a bad habit where your mind keeps racing and you want to keep leaping to new things.

Apparently, this tends to be a common problem for beginners. So I suggest, if you haven't experienced this habit before, try to keep aware. Because this is best solved when you realize the potential problem ahead of time. If the pattern starts developing before you realize, then it'll become very difficult to get out of. Because I've spent years with this hobby, and I was really passionate about it, but the ironic thing is, I never actually finished a single game.

My advice is, try not to become over-ambitious with your ideas, and instead try to start from basics until you become more experienced. Of course, that's assuming this is your first project.

Thanks for the reply. I've used GameMaker too, in the past. This isn't my first project, but it will be my first collaborative project. I'm hoping "hell is other people" doesn't prove to be too true.

I will say that yes, the thing you mention can happen pretty easily.

Which honestly is why I'm glad I'm not the one in charge, on the games I've been working on (as I'm now helping with another, in addition to the one I've been working on since last winter). We had an update for my main one go out a few days ago, themed around the Humble Bundle site (so, a collaboration sort of thing with them), and it needed to have quite alot of new content. But boy am I indecisive when it comes to that. I had some definite trouble coming up with my side of the content.... not because I didnt know what to do, but because I had so many ideas, and it's like.... okay, THIS one will do. No, wait... actually I'm going to go with this one. No no no.... THIS one is best!

Eventually I locked down some decisions, but it's not an easy process. I've had to deal with this since the start of the project, and yeah, it's just a good thing I"m not the one in charge (despite still being in a position to make decisions). It's not a role I personally would be ready for.

It's a hurdle that I think pretty much all budding game designers have to get past, to be honest. Regardless of their design methods.



As for designing games with other people? I wouldnt worry about the "hell is other people" idea too much; ideally you find/hire/whatever amiable people that are friendly and know how to work in a group. No, the problem is MANAGING it. I've seen what that stress does to someone (again, glad I'm not in charge). It's not an enviable task. Might end up being the most difficult thing you face (particularly with, you know, autistic traits getting in the way, if they tend to do that for you when dealing with other people).

But who knows?