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02 Dec 2021, 10:06 am

AngelL wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Since hatred only leads to further divison, conflict, violence, and death, I'll pass.


:heart:

There isn't a person in China that isn't my brother or sister in every way that really matters, so I'll join you in passing.

:heart: :heart:


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funeralxempire
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02 Dec 2021, 10:12 am

Misslizard wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
I'm not sure it's a matter of either/or. Tibet's pre-CCP leadership was atrocious, but so are the CCP. There isn't a good guy in that conflict.

It’s worse.They are having their culture assimilated.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/08/31/ti ... icization/


I'm aware of that, but that's just about the only issue that can be pointed to in the defence of Tibet's previous leadership. It's still a power struggle between two entities that aren't worthy of respect or support so I won't support either of them.


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02 Dec 2021, 10:13 am

I can despise someone’s actions without hating them.


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02 Dec 2021, 10:15 am

Misslizard wrote:
I can despise someone’s actions without hating them.


I never said anything about hating anyone. I'm just not willing to pretend like Tibet's old government is deserving of any support or respect even if their current government is also not deserving of support or respect.


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02 Dec 2021, 10:23 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
I'm not sure it's a matter of either/or. Tibet's pre-CCP leadership was atrocious, but so are the CCP. There isn't a good guy in that conflict.

It’s worse.They are having their culture assimilated.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/08/31/ti ... icization/


I'm aware of that, but that's just about the only issue that can be pointed to in the defence of Tibet's previous leadership. It's still a power struggle between two entities that aren't worthy of respect or support so I won't support either of them.

All religions have bad actors that prey on people.Catholic church, Televangelists,cult leaders like Jim Jones.
I spent many years studying under a Lama from Tibet (Khentrul Lordo Thaye Rinpoche).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khentru ... e_Rinpoche

I met many refugees from there.I will take their word that Chinese occupation is worse.Rinpoche can’t wear his robes when he goes home, it’s not safe so he wears civilian clothes.His brother, a monk was beaten by the Chinese and died from it.


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Misslizard
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02 Dec 2021, 10:24 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
I can despise someone’s actions without hating them.


I never said anything about hating anyone. I'm just not willing to pretend like Tibet's old government is deserving of any support or respect even if their current government is also not deserving of support or respect.

That wasn’t directed at you but to the post subject.
I can despise what China does but not hate the Chinese people.


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02 Dec 2021, 10:31 am

Misslizard wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
I can despise someone’s actions without hating them.


I never said anything about hating anyone. I'm just not willing to pretend like Tibet's old government is deserving of any support or respect even if their current government is also not deserving of support or respect.

That wasn’t directed at you but to the post subject.
I can despise what China does but not hate the Chinese people.


Oh okay, I was just being an egomaniac. :oops:

You raise something important though, a lot of people seem to be unable to separate their opinion towards the PRC from a broader view towards the Chinese people. We've seen posters be pretty blatant with demonstrating that before.


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02 Dec 2021, 10:58 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
I can despise someone’s actions without hating them.


I never said anything about hating anyone. I'm just not willing to pretend like Tibet's old government is deserving of any support or respect even if their current government is also not deserving of support or respect.

That wasn’t directed at you but to the post subject.
I can despise what China does but not hate the Chinese people.


Oh okay, I was just being an egomaniac. :oops:

You raise something important though, a lot of people seem to be unable to separate their opinion towards the PRC from a broader view towards the Chinese people. We've seen posters be pretty blatant with demonstrating that before.

Yup.
Sometimes people also mistake complaints against China as racism when it’s the government it’s directed at and not the people.Many dislike American policy but don’t hate the Americans.


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02 Dec 2021, 11:24 am

funeralxempire wrote:
I'm not sure it's a matter of either/or. Tibet's pre-CCP leadership was atrocious, but so are the CCP. There isn't a good guy in that conflict.


Correct. But the CCP was the lesser of two evils IMO. They at least attempted to bring modernity and secular reforms to that land that time forgot.



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02 Dec 2021, 11:42 am

Axeman wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
I'm not sure it's a matter of either/or. Tibet's pre-CCP leadership was atrocious, but so are the CCP. There isn't a good guy in that conflict.


Correct. But the CCP was the lesser of two evils IMO. They at least attempted to bring modernity and secular reforms to that land that time forgot.


I'm not sure where I stand, I find them each abhorrent for different reasons but I will link back to this if ever I need to remind you which one of us has openly defended a Marxist dictatorship. :nerdy:


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02 Dec 2021, 11:45 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Axeman wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
I'm not sure it's a matter of either/or. Tibet's pre-CCP leadership was atrocious, but so are the CCP. There isn't a good guy in that conflict.


Correct. But the CCP was the lesser of two evils IMO. They at least attempted to bring modernity and secular reforms to that land that time forgot.


I'm not sure where I stand, I find them each abhorrent for different reasons but I will link back to this if ever I need to remind you which one of us has openly defended a Marxist dictatorship. :nerdy:


The Chinese are running one of the largest capitalist operations on the planet.



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02 Dec 2021, 11:50 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Axeman wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
I'm not sure it's a matter of either/or. Tibet's pre-CCP leadership was atrocious, but so are the CCP. There isn't a good guy in that conflict.


Correct. But the CCP was the lesser of two evils IMO. They at least attempted to bring modernity and secular reforms to that land that time forgot.


I'm not sure where I stand, I find them each abhorrent for different reasons but I will link back to this if ever I need to remind you which one of us has openly defended a Marxist dictatorship. :nerdy:


I also voted Hillary because I thought she was the lesser of two evils.



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02 Dec 2021, 12:31 pm

Axeman wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Axeman wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
I'm not sure it's a matter of either/or. Tibet's pre-CCP leadership was atrocious, but so are the CCP. There isn't a good guy in that conflict.


Correct. But the CCP was the lesser of two evils IMO. They at least attempted to bring modernity and secular reforms to that land that time forgot.


I'm not sure where I stand, I find them each abhorrent for different reasons but I will link back to this if ever I need to remind you which one of us has openly defended a Marxist dictatorship. :nerdy:


The Chinese are running one of the largest capitalist operations on the planet.


I'd say just like everywhere else their economy balances mercantilist, capitalist and socialist traits. It's a totalitarian state built around and off of exploitation. If prestige and GDP are one's standards for evaluating success, it can be claimed to be a success. If human rights and concern for the average person's well-being are the main measures it's harder to claim it's a success.

I'm not a Trot, but the term they like, 'state capitalist' seems fairly accurate.


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02 Dec 2021, 1:39 pm

Axeman wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
I'm not sure it's a matter of either/or. Tibet's pre-CCP leadership was atrocious, but so are the CCP. There isn't a good guy in that conflict.


Correct. But the CCP was the lesser of two evils IMO. They at least attempted to bring modernity and secular reforms to that land that time forgot.

I’d say the greater evil considering what they have done to the people and the environment of Tibet.
https://tibetnature.net/en/chinas-60-ye ... -in-tibet/

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/c ... -and-tibet


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02 Dec 2021, 8:16 pm

Yes. It would be as if I were to break into your house...murder you, your wife, your kids, and your pets, and then steal your stuff. And then afterward claim that I did it because "you were abusing your kids, your wife, and your pets". So I was freeing them from you... but I kinda accidently killed them too!

Some conquerors think up an excuse BEFORE they conquer you ( we need to bring them Christ/Allah/Communism/democracy). And proceed to do what China did to Tibet. But the Chinese didnt even make up the ideological justifications (we were freeing the Tibetans from a feudal order) until years later as an afterthought after they conquered and did genocidal crimes on the Tibetan people, as well filling up parts of Tibet with ethnic Han settlers. They just wanted more land, and felt that Tibet was their legacy from Imperial China.



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07 Dec 2021, 11:09 pm

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