Are you overly-sensitive to images of cruelty?
I'd say your lucky in that respect. Things like this faze me much more when i'm depressed. It's as if all the misery and injustice of the world is set upon my shoulders when i'm depressed. I have been more depressed over the past few months than I ever have been in my life, so it's not surprising really.
No "right"?
What exactly is the average individual supposed to do to prevent serial killers (and other such fiends) from commiting their vile acts?
Even those in law enforcement and the forensic sciences haven't been able to do so.
I don't understand the point to your comment?
If you are unwilling to relieve the plight then you shouldn't be upset about it.
Even those in law enforcement and the forensic sciences haven't been able to do so.
People already provide taxes and those in law enforcement are trying to do something about it.
within the boundaries of nature and nurture. Nevertheless, all the materialistic and derministic explantions in the world just serve to generate more questions in my mind. Assuming they are valid, it would suggest something about the fundamental nature of reality. It would suggest that we are nothing more than products of dead, mechanistic, non-conscious forces that neither know nor care anything about suffering, injustice, etc...It would suggest that there are no rewards for behavior most of us call "good" and no punishments for behavior most of us see as "evil". I am not naive about any of this. From all the scientific evidence at our disposal as well as my own observations over the years, existence just seems objectively meaningless. I adopted an existential outlook on life a long time ago...but I must admit that it's been very little comfort to me overall. I feel that there MUST be something *more* to existence than the chaotic and pointless by-products of physics-chemistry-biology. All the same, I have NEVER heard a remotely acceptable "immaterial" answer for the problems of "evil" and suffering and believe me....i've looked under EVERY philosophical, spiritual and mystical nook and cranny. So until some alternate answers are forthcoming from "elsewhere" (whatever the nature of some potential "elsewhere" may be) I feel the only rational, albeit unpleasant, answers emanate from the perspectives of scientific materialism and hard determinism.

In the interest of full disclosure...I have been diagnosed with NLD...not Asperger's or anything else *officially* on the spec. My own personal life is troubling enough these days and I realize it's pointless to make matters worse by getting upset over the unspeakable horrors of existence which I can obviously do little or nothing to change. But like some unconsciously masochistic fool or something....I am still compelled to cry out for answers to questions that have eluded humankind since it's inception. If all this misery, hatred, cruelty, suffering and injustice is simply the unavoidable result of a non-conscious cosmos, why on earth do we continue to justify it? Why don't we just stop procreating and allow the human species to become extinct? To my mind, it would seem like the most merciful thing to do. When pondering both the wreckage of history and the present, I must ask if this is truly the best we can do as a species. If so, i'm afraid I feel that our best just isn't good enough.
Eh well....sorry....I know i'm just babbling right now. I am so depressed, anxious, confused, etc....about everything right now. I feel like this inexpressible anguish has cost me 30 IQ points. My mind seems like an infinite whirlwind of disconnected thoughts, images, emotions and focusing on any one idea seems impossible at this time.
Basically.... i'm just wondering how many of you feel literally traumatized by the horrors in life which do not affect you personally and which you can do nothing about.
Don't know what to say. I have the same troubles. I seem to perseverate on thoughts such as this when I'm experiencing major depression. The fact that humans can collectively condone so much unfairness and injustice saddens and enrages me. The utter hypocrisy of religious people who support the crap through some kind of mental gymnastics is also highly disturbing. It only serves to solidify my atheism and nihilistic outlook on humanity. I see no point in any of it in the big picture.
Unfortunately I am affected personally by some things. The health insurance fiasco here in the US is the main one. I personally hate the health insurance industry and the politicians who continue to support it. I want to punch my television screen when I see some rich bastard trying to defend what they do to people. Sadly I think I have more sympathy for serial killers than health insurance companies. I'd like to see the guillotines come out and heads rolling.
I have so much anger in me sometimes that I don't know if I'm really any better than the serial killer. I think everyone is a potential monster. Then groups and institutions with power often turn out to be worse monsters than mere individuals could dream of. It's so depressing.
I feel exactly the same way. It's downright insulting to the dignity of the victims when the religious/spiritual utter a bunch of crap about "everything happening for a reason or something".
How on earth the religious square all this with the existence of an omnipotent and omnibenevolent god is beyond me.
The standard answer Catholic theologians offer from the "problem of evil/suffering" seems absurd on it's face.
They claim god "permits" evil in order to "bring about the greater good". That's funny....I never knew an omnipotent being would require some sort of utilatarian solutions. Is their god some sort of cosmic Jeremy Bentham or something? If god is omnipotent...he sure as hell doesn't seem too benevolent.
This is another disturbing movie I recently watched which illustrates your point about groups and institutions being far worse monsters than mere individuals could ever be.
It too is fictionalized....but the events depicted were historically accurate. I wonder how many Americans really know (or are willing to admit to themselves) what their tax dollars fund?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvador_(movie)
But is it really just as cruel as human beings? It basically feeds and changes and recycles. It doesnt torture for enjoyment.
True...Mark Twain did a wonderful job expressing this in his "The Lowest Animal".
Still....I think it's fair to ask WHY some humans torture for enjoyment. There are some very plausible answers few of us (least of all myself) may like, but reality doesn't seem to care about our likes/dislikes.
*sighs*
Humanity should've probably nipped in the bud at Homo erectus or something. I see few reasons to believe this species isn't "a thing that should not be".
Chronozon, I get where you are coming from. Oh boy, do I ever. Images of human cruelty can stick in my head for literally decades. I'm middle aged and still get bothered by the descriptions and woodcut drawings of torture during witch trials that I encountered as a child. I try to stay away from real life examples but they keep popping up in the news; North Korean jails, Abu Ghraib (I'm a horrified American), Nazi experiemnts, that Austrian man who kept his daughter in the basement for 30 years and so on and on. I also try to avoid such movies as "Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer" (didn't see it after reading the reviews) and any other movies that depict humans torturing each other. I do prefer supernatural horror fiction and supernatural horror movies because these books and movies always have the atrocities committed by a non-human monster which is comforting even if it isn't true. Because the monster isn't human therefore the atrocities aren't actually possible.
These two books have been helpful to me in explaining why people do these terrible things:
"Dark Nature- A Natural History of Evil" by Lyall Watson
"Lucifer Principle-A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History" by Howard Bloom
Both books try to come up with objective, non-religious reasons why people are sometimes so horrible. I can't begin to paraphrase them and can only say that they will make you feel both better and worse about the human race.
Last edited by Janissy on 01 Aug 2009, 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I don't understand the point to your comment?
If you are unwilling to relieve the plight then you shouldn't be upset about it.
Even those in law enforcement and the forensic sciences haven't been able to do so.
People already provide taxes and those in law enforcement are trying to do something about it.
"Who said anything about "unwilling"? Why shouldn't I be upset about it....what's with the unqualified "thou shalt nots" here?
Your last statement is true enough....but it doesn't address my overarching point.
That is....I think it's imperative to understand why so many are so cruel in the first place.
I don't understand the point to your comment?
You say that you don't care. I don't have a problem with that. Whether you care or not isn't my business. By the same token I don't think it's your business whether someone else cares or not. Saying someone shouldn't care if they can't do anything about it is insulting. It's like you're invalidating their feelings. Different people are affected differently by things.
There are some things I'm not at all affected by and other things I am deeply affected by. If a commercial airliner crashed right next to me and all 200 passengers died I wouldn't be affected that much as long as no one I personally knew was on the plane. However if someone was sadistically torturing someone else right next to me I'd be strongly affected. I'd probably attempt to do something to stop it even if it would put my own life in danger. That's just the way I am.
These two books have been helpful to me in explaining why people do these terrible things:
"Dark Nature- A Natural History of Evil" by Lyall Watson
"Lucifer Principle-A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History" by Howard Bloom
Both books try to come up with objective, non-religious reasons why people are sometimes so horrible. I can't begin to paraphrase them and can only say that they will make you feel both better and worse about the human race.
Yes....you're referring to Josef Fritzl. Hanna Arendt's concept of "The banality of evil" really applied to that one. I read the "Lucifer Principle" some time ago and while I agree with some of Bloom's ideas, he seems to take the view that "human nature" is somehow fixed and immutable.
I don't agree with that...I think human behavior is quite malleable and that the predominant values of a given society largely determine it. I am about to read the following book and it looks like it will offer some good insight into the genetic/neuropsychological factors which may, at least in part, explain anti-social and sadistic behavior.
http://www.evilgenes.com/
It's "like" invalidating someones feelings because that's exactly what i'm doing. Emotion is a useful tool, but you shouldn't let it control you and emotional responses to things you are unwilling to change are un-needed. Of course, it's a personal choice, but i think people should attempt to suppress such feelings as they have no functional purpose.
I'd still say that an individual who was watching this, in a position to do something (who chooses not to) has no right to feel sorry for the person being tortured. Not only is it illogical, but it's insulting to the person being tortured. On the other-hand, fear would be a perfectly acceptable emotional response.
Placing yourself into other people's shoes, is it like a recreational activity? Are you trying to live out what you are seeing like a drama?
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