Are there any people her who follows pagan type religions?

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be taught to Seekers and those in training as part of outer-court teaching until initiated to 1st degree

Fair enough. You're appealing to 'mysteries' and such that you are 'bound by oath not to disclose' it seems. Which bugs me, I admit, as you can't really have a conversation about something without putting all the facts on the table.

I don't see where you're coming from, but in the end I like your version of the religion better than the one that I've gotten to know. So I can't really bring myself to debate against it further.

I think we should be careful here. Muslims are not Christian, but Protestants are, even though for a long time Catholics denied it.

For example, Alexandrian Wicca, though it still traces an initiatory line to Gardner, has included some eclectic elements, so its traditions are not exactly the same. I don't think anyone would dispute that Alexandrian Wiccans are Wiccan, though.

There are also traditions that don't trace their initiatory lines to Gardner, but who have adopted the term "Wiccan". For example, Central Valley Wicca may trace its initiatory line to other British traditional witchcraft covens than those in the Gardnerian line. Central Valley Wicca is still considered British Traditional, though.

Then there are traditions, such as Georgian Wicca and Blue Star Wicca, that while having traditions based on Gardnerian tradition, don't generally seem to trace an initiatory line to any British covens at all. Georgian Wicca dates to 1970 and Blue Star Wicca to 1975, which is pretty far back for Wicca, and I don't think they consider themselves "neo-wiccan", nor do I think it reasonable to apply that term to them.

In fact, as best I can tell, the term "neo-wiccan" is a very recent one, perhaps less than 10 years old. In the U.S. it seems to be applied to solitary practitioners who have never been initiated into a coven. I suspect it got started as a term for people who got interested in Wicca through the Buffy the Vampire Slayer television show, couldn't find a coven, and hoped to start learning spells from books, but that's just a guess.

I think that for the term "neo-wicca" to be useful, it needs to be better defined.

I'm an Eclectic Pagan (that word you hate so much!! !!). I love being Pagan and calling myself Pagan. For me, that word isn't demeaning, it's empowering.

I also draw my beliefs from many other faith paths. Nature and Goddess worship are big parts of my spirituality.

It's interesting to see that you believe in "white" and "black" magick. I've always held the belief that energy (magick) is neither good or bad by itself, it's all about the intent of the Witch. Also, I love using gemstones in ritual. Quartz is an awesome stone, I myself have a connection to Rose Quartz and Amethyst in particular; they are powerful tools.

I think it's awesome that you have Native American/Cherokee beliefs as part of your faith. My mother's family is Cherokee but I don't really know very much about their beliefs.

I've been wondering if I might be the only Aspie Pagan/Wiccan on here. Turns out I'm not!! !! And that's great!

I take it you mean heathen idolatry and superstition.

ruveyn

Me or the OP?

If me, then yeah...I mean pretty much that.

What you're thinking of as superstitious BS I think of as my spirituality.

"A rose by any other name..." and such.

Different traditions and different lineage is irrelevant - they're all still Wicca. It's up to Wicca to differentiate between fellow Wicca and those who are not - unless Wicca ourselves we cannot comment.

The earliest I've seen the term 'Neo-Wicca' was 2002 - so yes it is a new term, but that's irrelevant. The term Neo-Wicca is applied to anyone who follows the outer-court teachings of Wicca - whether solitary eclectic or initiated into a non-BTW coven with it's own tradition. How else would you have it defined?

It was born out of witch wars to define a different take on Wicca and keep the peace.
With the likes of Buckland introducing his idea of what Wicca was to the US you in turn saw a mass of sources rehashing this to cash-in on the popularity, people learned about Wicca from these sources and so defined themselves as Wicca based on what they knew of Wicca - however the information was lacking at best. We thus saw misinformation spreading and with it ignorance and disrespect towards Wicca, not to mention that there was some offence that people could claim to be Wicca without earning that title. These people were not at fault, they believed in the path they had thought was Wicca - so there was a problem, these were not Wicca...thus Neo-Wicca was coined as a way to differentiate between Wicca and those who follow the outer-court teachings of Wicca, or as some view it; a new and more eclectic take on Wicca.

Hooray for Eclectic Pagans! You are definetly not the only one, Dessie. And Jadea, there are NO Wiccans who can trace their lineage back to any of the original, pre-christian practitioners. Gardenerian Wicca is only one path in Wicca. Not all of them are initiatory or hierarchical. The main reason I'm solitary is because I got so tired of Gardenerians trying to tell me what I could believe, when I could believe it , and who I could share it with. If I wanted all that dogma, I could just be christian (Sorry, brothers and sisters in Christ. No offense intended). And while I'm counter-ranting, I think it's fair to say that most pagans believe that God/dess is beyond sexual expression-neither male nor female but both. Separating deity into male and female is simply the easiest way of focusing on individual aspects of deity. And while separating deity into different aspects (Gods, Goddesses) may be useful and more easily understood, all are one. Just like different facets of the same jewel. Anyway, I have been a practicing Pagan, with my primary roots in Wicca, for 25 years. One of the primary things that I love about Paganism is lack of dogma and specific, exclusionary structure. Thou art Goddess, sisters. We should leave all bickering to the members of religious ideologies who thrive on that b.s.

Awesome! Yay!



I love the way you put that into words. Just beautiful.



I love that about Pagansim too.

If that were uniformly true, there would be no need for the "BT" in "BTW". Like it or not, the common meaning of the term Wicca, both as used by most practitioners and nonpractitioners, now extends beyond British Traditional Wicca.


Buckland was a Gardnerian high priest, and his Long Island Coven was British Traditional for decades, so you can't argue with his lineage. His shift to Seax-Wica was a schism, yes, but Seax-Wica already has its own clearly defined name, so no additional terminology is needed.

To each man, his own sh*t smells sweet.

ruveyn

I guess ruveyn is an equal opportunity atheist.

+1

To deny the existence of one divine entity or set of divine entities is not be be atheist, it is to be at best infidel.

To be atheist is to affirm the non-existence of any divine entity.

What it would be called to affirm the existence of every divine entity ever postulated God alone knows. Humanity is so diverse and perverse there must almost have been SOMEONE who so affirmed.

I generally refer to myself as Pagan as well. I don't find it demeaning at all, but then again I don't internally have that word carrying around the connotations of wickedness, sin, delusion, etc that many mainstream Christians seem to have when using it. But I also don't find it especially empowering, I think because it is not really very precise. In some ways it is as vague as lumping together all the non-autistic spectrum people of the world as "neurotypical". Yes, it has important meaning, but it's really fuzzy. So then I tried the word "occultist", and that wasn't much better. I find trying to use words as labels in this issue frustrating, or as someone apparently once said, "Talking about music is like dancing about architecture". (although now that I think about it dancing about architecture makes perfect sense to me )



I come pretty close to that.